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The Sister Lucia of Fatima Who Died Recently was not the Real Sister Lucia: Compelling Evidence!

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posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 08:37 AM
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About the handwriting.

I have found my father's calligraphy book, and the handwriting from that last secret, as presented by the Vatican, looks like a variation of French letters, a little more slanted and stylised.

Also, the fact that the letters have exactly the same height shows that it was written by someone that had learned calligraphy.



Maybe she learned calligraphy, we know she had the time for that, and it is not surprising that she wanted it written with her best handwriting. But the other secrets were written in 1941, only three years before the third secret writing.

Or maybe this was written by a different person.




posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 08:43 AM
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Yes, there's quite a difference in those handwriting styles and did a good job in your comparative analysis of this.

Also...

Armap, although I can't agree with you that the women being shown in this thread are the same person, I do agree with you that if there's any resemblance at all between these 2 women, it's their eyes. In fact, I have no doubt that those who chose Lucia 2 as Lucia 1's replacement did so because the shape of Lucia 2's eyes look very much like the shape of the real Lucia's eye's even though the rest of her face is the exact OPPISOTE of some of the major features of Lucia 1's face .... for example:

Lucia 1 - severe receding chin
Lucia 2 - very prominent jutting chin

Lucia 1 - very long crooked teeth
Lucia 2 - short very even concave teeth showing as much gum as teeth.

Lucia 1 - straight mouth at repose and upturned mouth when smiling.
Lucia 2 - downturned mouth at repose and even moreso when smiling.

Lucia 1 - full lips
Lucia 2 - very thin almost imperceptible lips

Lucia 1 - long oval-ish face
Lucia 2 - square face -- in short, the shapes of their heads are different.

Lucia 1 - deeper set eyes
Lucia 2 - eyes seem to be slightly bulging -- this is especially seen in that photograph of Lucia 2 in that Catholic Magazine showing "Sr. Lucia" in her younger years. And in those photo's of Lucia 2 showing her at a more advanced age where she's wearing bifocals (perhaps she suffered from cataracts?) -- they do look like betty davis type eyes but hard to tell with those glasses she's wearing. BIG GLASSES btw... my guess there's a reason for that....

This said, even though it seems like both women possess the same shaped eyes, this is not to say that their eyes look the same when they are smiling neverthless, as they say, the eye's are the windows to ones soul... and how true that is because in both of these women I'm seeing a deep spiritual core of love and joy. So it's no wonder that Lucia 2 was chosen as Lucia 1's replacement because she seems to possess those same luminous charismatic qualities that we are also seeing in Lucia 1's face -- they both seem to have a special aura about them.

And one other thing -- their noses are pretty similar too.
So there you have it -- their eyes and their noses look a lot alike but everything else is a study in opposites -- IMHO.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 08:56 AM
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Armap, maybe she did learn caligraphy in her later years -- it sounds like something a nun would practice at.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Palasheea
 



The most obvious discrepency is the teeth. I went into this thread expecting something far fetched but, I have to admit, you have something here.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 09:27 AM
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Yes, this stuff is pretty amazing isn't it? It's sort of temporarily flipped my world upside down. Just think of it... the Church finds a replacement for the last living seer of Fatima just to keep the show moving along -- it's like Disneyland -- the current Snow White quits and they then find someone else to replace her.... it's sort of creepy isn't it?



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
I'm seeing some startling differences in the facial features ...

Looks like the same person to me.

Her teeth obviously fell out (they looked very bad) and she had dentures put in. The 'different noses' were different angles.

It's the same person - just weathered with age and time.


Originally posted by Palasheea
Garabandal ... Padro Pio believed that what happened there was from God and not the Devil... like the Church does.


Garabandal was not declared 'from the devil' by the church. It was declared not to be supernatural. Three times this declaration was made.

I am of the opinion Garabandal was demonic. The 'apparition' and the events were dramatically different from any other marrian visitation. They were obviously of evil intent. IMHO (ref - floating backwards down the stairs and that Night of Screams)


Originally posted by cw034
6 days after the third secret was revealed the world would start to come to an end.

That isn't from Fatima at all. You might be getting confused with Medjugore. The secrets there are to be revealed 10 days before the event happens.


Originally posted by Palasheea
that 100,000 people witnessed that dancing of the sun event.

My husband and I (and millions of others) have seen the sun dance at Medjugorje. It definately is NOT a holograph because if it were then all would see the same thing. Different people see different images. One fellow in our group saw a chalice appear under the sun and the sun turned to the Eucharist - dripping blood into the chalice.

I saw the sun dance, spin, and shoot colors.

BACK TO THE TOPIC - The pictures are of the same person.
NO SWITCH. Different angles of pictures, natural ageing, and dentures.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 09:55 AM
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Here’s a few of the major contradictions


Source: www.tldm.org...

The Third Secret was to be revealed in 1960 as chosen by Our Lady:

Lucy 1: In 1946 Canon Barthas asked Sister Lucy why the world must wait until 1960 for the revelation of the Secret. Sister Lucy gave two reasons for this particular date: first, "because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so," and also because "it will be clearer then."

Lucy 2: Contradiction: the new Sister Lucy says she chose the date, not Our Lady. The Vatican's official document and commentary on The Message of Fatima quotes from a April 27, 2000 interview of the new Sister Lucy: Archbishop Bertone therefore asked: “Why only after 1960? Was it Our Lady who fixed that date?” Sister Lucia replied: “It was not Our Lady. I fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood."



Source: www.tldm.org...

The conversion of Russia:

Lucy 1: Our Lady of Fatima said in 1917, “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

Lucy 2: Contradiction: The new Sister Lucy said in 1992 that "the Virgin did not request the conversion of Russia to Catholicism". She even points to the cosmetic changes in Russia as "proof" that Russia is now converted.



Source: www.tldm.org...

On the reality of hell, and that many go there:

Lucy 1: On July 13, 1917, Our Lady of Fatima showed the three shepherd children, Lucy, Francisco, and Jacinta, a vision of hell. Then Our Lady told them, "You have seen hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart."

Throughout her whole life, Sister Lucy never forgot this horrifying vision of hell and of the damned. On October 13, 1953, Fr. Lombardi asked her, "Do you really believe that many people go to hell?" He also told her, "Certainly, the world is a cesspool of vices ... But there is always hope of salvation." Sister Lucy replied, "No, Father, many are lost."

Jacinta often lamented the sad fact that so many went to hell: "So many fall into hell! So many are in hell!"

Sister Lucy also wrote to a young seminarian these words: "Do not be surprised that I speak to you so much about hell. This is one truth that it is necessary to recall often in these times, because we forget that souls are falling into hell in droves."

Lucy 2: Contradiction: According to the new Sister Lucy in a reported 1992 interview, she stated, "God condemns no one to hell".


STM


[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 10:11 AM
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STM -- just like the face analysis between these 2 women, a casual analysis of what each are saying on any given point is also a study in opposites and startling contrasts. Lucia 2's statements show a significant departure from what Lucia 1's statements were on those various topics you have in that excerpt.
It almost makes me wonder if in fact the cloud of satan did creep into the Church at the onset of Vatican 2 like Malachi Martin believes because Lucia 2's statements totally negate and contradict everything Lucia 1 ever said on ... you name it! Amazing and very, very unsettling.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 10:27 AM
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And here's the professional analysis of Lucy's handwriting:

www.tldm.org...

STM



[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 10:29 AM
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definatly somthing going on wouldnt surprise me if the vatigan has killed the original sister off anything to keep there precious church and money.

its well known by most people the vatigan and the cathlic church are not about god but about money and control



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 10:31 AM
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Bo Xian -- Check out the link in my first post in this thread -- the 2 Lucy's link -- This is where I got my information from. The was an analysis conducted by Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Also, below are 2 books I've ordered and I think they are the one's you were looking for. Can't wait to read them!
Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon
by JOAQUIM FERNANDES (Author), FINA D'ARMADA (Author), Jacques Vallee (Foreword)

CELESTIAL SECRETS: The Hidden History of the Fatima Incident

by JOAQUIM FERNANDES (Author), FINA D'ARMADA (Author), JIM MARRS (Foreword)



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 11:09 AM
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Kerrichin
definatly somthing going on wouldnt surprise me if the vatigan has killed the original sister off anything to keep there precious church and money.

its well known by most people the vatigan and the cathlic church are not about god but about money and control


I was thinking about that too this morning-- that the Church is more about politics, money and control more than anything else. Thanks for reminding us of that because it's so true... unfortunately.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by seentoomuch
Contradiction: The new Sister Lucy said in 1992 that "the Virgin did not request the conversion of Russia to Catholicism".


There is no contradiction. Mary never said to convert Russia to Catholicsim. She said to dedicate it to her Immaculate Heart so that Russia would convert from it's errors.


Contradiction: According to the new Sister Lucy in a reported 1992 interview, she stated, "God condemns no one to hell".


There is no contradiction. God condemns no one to hell. People condemn themselves by their actions. This follows Catholic teaching and does not contradict what was originally said.

Edited to add - her statement does NOT deny that hell is real or that people go there. It's just basic Catholic theology.



[edit on 9/22/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Hi FF,

We would not even be discussing this topic if it wasn’t so obvious that there had been a replacement of the true Lucy; the purpose of which we can only speculate on. And believe me, I’m not the only one that notices the differences between the two, many people share this belief. I'm exhausted from reading all their findings and I’ve barely scratched the surface. And after reading much of this material I stand by the total change of her demeanor, her looks, and her specifics on the messages from Mary.

There’s another website that was mentioned earlier in this thread by ArMaP and I had a peek at it last night, it is huge and is in great detail as to the inner church politics going on at that time in relation to how it affected the messages of Fatima right up until the present time. And yes, it does address some problematic contradictions and other changes. Tonight or tomorrow after I’ve taken a break from this for a bit I’ll read through it and let you know what I find.

Here’s a couple more mentions of the differences:


traditioninaction.org...

I have another problem, though. Usually those with Portuguese, Mulatto, Mediterranean, or Semitic features will experience that such features in their face will INTENSIFY as they age.

The young sister Lucy from 1917 to 1946 has very, very strong Mulatto / Portuguese features. The post 1967 Sister Lucy seems to have lost these pronounced Portuguese features completely, in favor of a northern European, Danish, Germanic look.



traditioninaction.org...

as Fr. Fuentes, a long time confident of Sister Lucy, gave a lengthy report in word and in print about his last meeting with Sister Lucy in 1957. This is reproduced on the Fatima Website. He believed that he was talking to the real Sister Lucy, and he would be in a position to know. Also, other priests who had been confessors and confidants to Sister Lucy were allowed to see her up until 1959. None of these priests raised any alarm about the identity of the pre 1958 Sister Lucy.

After John XXIII assumed control of the Vatican after the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958, all of these long time confessors and confidants were forbidden to see Sister Lucy at all. The break was abrupt, total, and complete. As I understand it, a priest from a Communist country, Fr. Kondor, was brought in to be the gatekeeper for Sister Lucy (or Sister Lucy II?), and he remained the gatekeeper until 2005, the announced death of Sister Lucy.

After the 1957 Fr. Fuentes interview, which is unquestionably authentic, the next time Sister Lucy emerged was in 1967 – and this was the alleged Danish-Germanic looking Sister Lucy II, who never mentioned the 3rd secret again – a subject that was of very grave concern to Sister Lucy in her 1957 interview with Fr. Fuentes.


STM

[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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The young sister Lucy from 1917 to 1946 has very, very strong Mulatto / Portuguese features. The post 1967 Sister Lucy seems to have lost these pronounced Portuguese features completely, in favor of a northern European, Danish, Germanic look.
I suppose that the person who wrote this is not a Portuguese...

Mulato/Portuguese features? Do they even know what they are talking about?

Mulato means that that person's parents were of different races, so how can someone have Mulato/Portuguese features?

And the Portuguese are from many origins, from the Celts on the North and Centre of Portugal to the Moorish, more common on the South.

In the Centre of Portugal, the general area where Fatima is located, is still common to find people, usually women, with Visigothic names.

So, if they think that there is a "normalised" Portuguese look they do not know what they are talking about.


As anyone can tell I got a little angry over that comment. I guess I am more of a patriot than I thought.


But how can we accept an analysis of the way Sister Lucy would look when older from someone that does not know the people from where Sister Lucy came?



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Sorry it disturbed you, ArMaP, it was not intended.


I believe what this person is saying is that young Lucy was dark olive skinned and in later photos she looks fair. Is that normal for a Portuguese person?

STM

[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:23 PM
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A correction to a previous post:

I have written that Sister Lucy was in a hospital in Lisbon during a hilness she had and that she left the hospital when she got well again.

Today I remembered that it wasn't she who was in a hospital in Lisbon, it was her cousin Jacinta, who died in the Hospital da Estefânia, a children's hospital, with purulent pleurisy.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by seentoomuch
reply to post by ArMaP
 

I believe what this person is saying is that young Lucy was dark olive skinned and in later photos she looks fair. Is that normal for a Portuguese person?

STM

[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]


Not sure if just for a Portuguese person or if it is a common trait but yes. My grandmother for example had very dark skin (that side of the family is of Moorish descent) when she was young and as she grew old her skin tone became very pale - nothing like it used to be.

ArMap - no worries
I get a shiver too when I read this type of descriptions.

(EDIT to add)

The one thing that keeps me on my toes still is the chin. Old age can do a lot to a person's features but the young Sister Lucia's chin was extremely inwards - a trait that I (in my ignorance) would expect to stay with her for the rest of her life. On the other hand The older Sister Lucia has an extremely outwards chin... a trait I would expect would have been hers for her entire life. I will investigate this further and try to study a more accurate conclusion. For now I leave a question - regarding the profile pictures is this type of change in chin phisiology normal with age?

[edit on 22-9-2007 by InTrueFiction]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by seentoomuch
Sorry it disturbed you, ArMaP, it was not intended.
No problem.


I believe what this person is saying is that young Lucy was dark olive skinned and in later photos she looks fair. Is that normal for a Portuguese person?
I did not interpreted it that way, I think that the idea is that the general look of Lucy when old is not the way that person thinks a Mulatto/Portuguese (whatever that is) looks when he/she gets old.

But regarding the skin tone, as we only have bad photos with children around 10 years old who worked in the fields during all year to compare with a 60 or 80 years old nun that passed all her time in the convent, I think that it is not possible to make such comparison.

Also, Sister Lucy could have had a fair skin and green eyes that are very common on that area of Portugal.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


There are some photos of Lucy in childhood and as a young nun on page 1 of the thread. Have a look, compare them once again with Lucy 2. I'm already convinced, it's a major change imo.

And btw my favorite Aunt, who is hispanic and in her late 70s still has her beautiful skin color, she is not out in the sun much and it has not lightened a bit.

These are two different Lucys imo, let's just agree that we disagree on this conspiracy.

STM

[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]





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