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The Sister Lucia of Fatima Who Died Recently was not the Real Sister Lucia: Compelling Evidence!

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posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by cw034
I just found a really good site that does alot of comparisions between the First Sister Lucia and the second, along with all of the differences in the 3rd secret

Source


Thanks! Will look this over! Good that there's another site on this information!




posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Excellent points InTrueFiction and probably right on target with the money thing.
My only request is that you look over the information about this BMV apparition and that 100,000 people witnessed that dancing of the sun event.
Also read over the information about the 3 Secrets those children received and why the first 2 eventually convinced many non-witnesses that this BMV apparition was for real.

I'm also interested in exploring other interpretations on all of this, i.e the 'sun' was actually a holographic rendering from another dimension (as in UFO's and ET's) and so on... much has been written about that.

I also invite you to look at the BVM appearances at Zeitoun, Egypt in 1968 that continued for 2 years or so where hundreds of thousands of witnessed saw those apparitions on a first hand basis but many more saw them on TV at the time. The holographic rendering hypothesis is even stronger for that event but it's mind boggling that it even happened.

But having said this, God works in many wondrous ways. I won't say any more than this but one thing we do know for certain -- Rome in the area of the Vatican is long due for a fall.




[edit on 21-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by cw034
 


Wow! Great site, CW! It is an impostor! Even her beliefs became Vatican II, quite a turnaround!

I wonder if they're going to place her in a glass coffin after awhile and put her in the new Basilica in Fatima? Wonder which Lucy it will be? Maybe they could put one on each side, Lucy Pre-Vatican II and the Lucy Vatican II on the other side? I'm not trying to make fun of this serious matter it's just that the change is so obvious! (Thanks for bringing this cover-up to our attention, Palasheea!)

I can't believe they think they can get away with this switch. After all the scandals with the priests and Bishops and a Cardinal or two now we have a scandal over the true words of Mary being hidden as well as her messenger being replaced! Wow, the impact of changing the two helped promote Vatican II. Methinks they had better reconvene and turn the bow around, they're headed for the rocks.

STM

[edit on 9/21/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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Well, I don't think that they are so different as to see them as two different people.

They look different, but the younger one is 40 years younger than the other, and ageing can change people a lot.

I think that I read somewhere that she was in a Lisbon hospital when she was sick, and only was sent then back to the convent when she was cured.

One thing that people usually do not say about the whole Fatima case is that the one of the reasons that Fatima was such a big success was because of the support and publicity made by the government.

From 1926 to 1974 Portugal was under a dictatorship, and one of the pillars of its support was the church, so it was very important to the government to keep people glued to some religious subject, especially after the start of the war in Africa, when the Portuguese colonies started their fight for independence, at the beginning of the 1960s.

While looking for photos I have found this site, maybe it has some more information.

PS: you can try to search the Portuguese words "Irmã Lúcia", I may try to translate what you find, if I have the time, and maybe some of the other Portuguese ATS members can help, I see that InTrueFiction is also present on this thread.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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Now This Is What The Conspiracies In Religions Forum Is All About!

Excellent thread!

I really hadn't paid much attention to the whole Miracle of Fatima thing before, but this thread sucked me right in and is now leading me on a classic conspiracy odyssey!


Skeptic that I am, I must nonetheless concede that I'm seeing a strong case for the impostor theory.

From there, it just gets even wilder.


Thanks to all the contributors in this thread for making it one of the best conspiracy reads I've had in a while.






[edit on 9/21/2007 by Majic]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:49 PM
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Beep, beep, beep, beep.... reality check time. Warning, warning ... Information Overload.
I've been having to pinch myself just to make sure this isn't some kind of bad dream or WHATEVER!

Sure, we all know the Catholic Church has been in some deep, deep trouble over the past few years with the pedophile muck... and granted it can't go any lower than that but .. wow! these 'bad news' reports just won't let up right?

It would be one thing if we are having to untangle complex information like we have in the case of UFO's and 9/11 -- but the muck that we are subjected to by the Church is so transparent, it's almost like they are handing it over to us on a silver platter! A Death wish perhaps?? I honestly wonder...

I would just like to sack the Vatican Library and get everything I can get my hands on before the whole place ends up a hole in the ground someday -- and it's my guess that day is sooner than we think!


Just my 2 pennies worth for the moment... thanks for that link (sorry can't recall your name but it's this site... www.tldm.org...
thanks.
Also good comments STM!



[edit on 21-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Don't know if anyone brought it up yet, but if you look at the pictures of the real Lucia compared to the impostor, you can see the eyebrows are also completely different.

In the pictures of the real Lucia her right eyebrow is slighty higher than her left eyebrow and they're close to each other towards the center. In the later photos the eyebrows are even and further away from each other in the center and are also thinner.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by nightmare_david]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Well, I can answer SOME of the speculations..

Look at Sister Lucy II's mouth. She's rather clearly wearing dentures (real human teeth aren't that straight across.) This means that yes, her face shape will change and so will the smile. Noses also change (become "droopier") as the cartilage enlarges.

Example:
Look at pictures of Audrey Hepburn... and then compare with the ones at the end of her life:
movies.nytimes.com...

She doesn't look like the same person. We could do this with hundreds of other people.

Because face shapes change so drastically throughout life, it's more useful to use other things to tell whether or not a person has been "replaced."



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


I'd agree with you Byrd except for the major difference in the chin. And also the complete reversal of the messages. And also the personality changes. Here's a site, have a look, the comparison chart showing the differences on her stances are 180 imo. Let us know your thoughts on this as I've learned from experience to highly respect your views. I would never want to get in a major debate with you until I'd taken graduate courses on the subject.

www.tldm.org...

STM



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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In regard to Lucia 2's teeth, please read the following but I do agree with you Byrd that they do sort of look false but only because they've been 'sanded' down so that they all look even. Just saying that this may be one reason why they look so even like that.
In the photo's below, you can see that her gums are inflamed -- see arrow. See how uneven her gums are?




Regarding the second argument, that Sister Lucy II appears to be using dentures, its premise is weak. It is not indisputable that Sister Lucy II is wearing dentures. Some common sense observations pointing to the fact that her teeth could be natural follow:

No one replaces bad and ugly teeth by another set of bad and ugly teeth. Indeed, why would a competent dentist build dentures with an ugly ¼” gum appearing on a person who is often smiling? (see photos 4c and 4d) Why did he choose to set such short, ugly teeth for such a prominent person destined to play a public role? Professionally speaking, it is highly unlikely he would have made such a set of teeth. That is, ugly teeth more likely suggest natural teeth, not dentures

• In addition, since dentures are artificial, they never change their appearance. But at times Sister Lucy II's gums seem inflamed, covering one tooth (see arrow in photo 4a), as a reader pointed out; at times her gums seem to retract making some teeth appear longer as in photo 4b.

• So, rather than dentures we could well be looking at the natural teeth of Sister Lucy II.


Source: www.traditioninaction.org...

Here's an example of what good dentures look like:


[edit on 21-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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Hmmm, I don't know Byrd -- Audrey Hepburns nose seems to look a little longer in her younger photo than the one that's on that link you gave us.
Maybe not but I'm sure she's had a face lift (don't they all dawling??lol) in her more recent photo on the left.


Ok, her nose is a tad more hooked in the left photo -- just a bit.






[edit on 21-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:34 PM
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www.tldm.org...

The difference in her before and after handwriting is striking. The above link shows some samples of that.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:38 PM
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Okay, guess Byrd is busy right now so I'm going ahead with a theory. (Am still expecting a right hook from her though, lol.) Palasheea you and many other people on the Lucy sites make a great argument and truly I'm convinced along with you, it is very clear. Here's some more info, the conspiracy goes a lot darker from this point on.

Here’s something I missed last night on the site you gave. Read the second to the last paragraph. Foul play? If she had any kind of illness her doctor would’ve been called, which he wasn’t. If it was an accident he would’ve been called to give information on her medical health/history, he wasn’t.


Source: www.traditioninaction.org...

I need also mention that this conclusion tends to confirm a statement made to me within the past six to eight months, by a prominent world-famous Catholic scientist, speaking to me from his home in London, England.

He told me, "Sister Lucy died years ago. The doctor taking care of her, was a close friend of mine. He told me that he had received a telephone call from the Carmelites at Coimbra telling him that 'his services were no longer required'".

So, what has happened to the REAL Sister Lucy ?


Good question. Here's more;

I believe that the full secret would’ve been an expose of the state of the church hierarchy and I believe it was described/exposed by Malachi Martin in his novels and in his interviews. What he spoke and wrote about in regards to the satanic group within the Vatican in his novel "Windswept House" he never recanted; he stated they were factual events.

And I’ll never forget hearing Art Bell say that after Malachi Martin’s death that a co-worker of Art's spoke with a close assistant of Malachi’s who said that before Malachi died he said the words, “I was pushed”. When Bell called back to verify it he was not able to get through to anyone that could confirm or deny it. Malachi Martin died from a fall down his stairs, but now you don’t hear that, now they say it was a stroke.

Malachi Martin had read the 3rd Secret and he was anti-Vatican II.

STM

[edit on 9/21/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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OMG! Only got as far as reading over that excerpt but I got goosebumps reading that part where the doctor said that Lucia died a long time ago...
this really gives me the creeps!

I read somewhere that M.Martin's death might have involved foul play. The woman who was taking care of him is suspect. She made it difficult for people to contact him without going to through her first and many people were complaining that she never passed on their messages to him.
Just going by memory here.. it's been a few years since I saw information on that.

After he died she hijacked his 'work in progress' -- I guess things got really nasty.

But as far as Lucia goes -- wow! I wonder how she died? I'm thinking if those involved pulled something like having an impostor representing her to the public like they did -- which is totally unethical and immoral -- then who's to say that they wouldn't murder someone too as they seem so Machiavellian.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:41 PM
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I appreciate this thread, we are living in such a time of change and the story here most definitely has very long legs. What ever the truth may be it is held secret to keep the revenue rolling. It would have to be pretty intense for the pope to faint.
I will be back. This is good stuff!



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Palasheea
 


There was a researcher on C2C a month or 3 ago that only tangentially was discussing Fatima.

I don't recall his name but would love to get a transcript of that show if I could find a way to search it--so far all my efforts at C2C have failed on that score.

This researcher asserted that Fatima was a hoax. And that the current Pope knew it but was loathe to upset the apple cart as a lot of houses of cards would come tumbling down if he did.

The researcher contended that he was reasonably certain that this current Pope knew that the Fatima incidents were actually UFO phenomena in all their typical deceptive style and had nothing to do with the real Mary, Mother of Jesus.

It was not clear whether he thought that the ET's involved pretended to be Mary; did some sort of holographic projection of Mary or if the cultural mind-set and authority interpretation of the time overlayed such assumptions onto the typical ET critters manifesting in those situations.

Certainly the basic facts of the Fatima incidents are consistent with typical UFO craft, lights, beings in light etc.

Do you have any refs to the above sorts of stuff?

Thanks for your interesting post and thread.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:08 AM
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THE THIRD SECRET WAS SIMEON TOKO!!

www.katinkahesselink.net...


PEACE
NO MO WARZ!!



Removed link, please see #4 of the T&C:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 22-9-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by Aquarmis
 



Source: www.katinkahesselink.net...

The Emergence of African Avatars and the Secret of Fatima



Wow! The author was right, we never hear about the spiritual events in Africa, just the famine and war stories. As for Simeon Toko, incredible! Was he the Christ returned? I don't know, even the author and other researchers said they needed to gather more information, but I gotta say he really was a true man of God at the very least. We should've heard about him long ago, but evidently the church and govt. intervened and prevented it. His connection with Fatima during the same year of the messages is intriguing, could he have been the 3rd Secret? I think it's possible. Would it make a Pope faint? I think it's possible.

I hope you follow up on the validation that the author and other researchers are compiling. Please start a thread on him in the spiritual forum on BTS or maybe if you can keep it in conspiracy that would be good considering that from what I've read this man's whole life was people conspiring against him. A great man of God, we really need to learn more about him and any other special spiritual events from Africa, it's time we heard from the Beautiful continent.

Thank you so much for telling us about him, it's amazing,

STM


[edit on 9/22/2007 by seentoomuch]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by Palasheea
 

I agree with that, the handwriting does not look to be from the same person.

Lucia's handwriting looks like the common handwriting that was taught in public schools, while the other handwriting looks to be from someone that had calligraphy lessons, I will try to see if I can find the calligraphy book that my father (born in 1925) used when he was in commercial school.

 

I will expand a little on what I said yesterday about thinking that it is the same person on both photos.

As anyone knows, if we live many years we start to show the effects of gravity on our ageing bodies. All the softer tissues tend to be pulled down, making the face change, the nose gets a little bigger, the ears the bigger, the cheeks drop, etc., but the eyes remain the same, although the area around them may change a little.

And that is what makes me think that it is the same person, the eyes, to me, look the same.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by seentoomuch
 


That is another interesting story, and I think it deserves its own thread.

I have found what I think it is the official church that follows Simão Gonçalves Toco (his name in Portuguese, after all he was Portuguese), it's called the "Igreja de Nosso Senhor Jesus Cristo no Mundo" or "Church of our Lord Jesus Christ in the World"





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