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Visited by the devil?

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posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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First and foremost, I am asking for other peoples experience and encounters.

One night after my grandpa had died, I was in my room trying to go to sleep. Suddenly, I was outside of some elevators. The elevators were big and brownish in color. Next to me, a man walks up, a man with a vibrant, inviting demeanor to him. He asks, "Come with me, once the elevator reaches the bottom floor, there is no turning back." I step into the elevator. I guess I went with him because he was so inviting. By the time the elevator reached floor 2, I hit the emergency stop on the elevator. But when the doors opened, everything that I liked in life was in front of me, technology, computers, pictures of family, thing that I love to be around. But, I just couldn't go with him. So, I find this hole in the wall behind a computer and leave.

After that, my parents said they have never before seen me so white in the face, and I am African-American. Didn't go to schools for a few days, and didn't speak a word to anyone.

Also, my mother says she had a similar experience when her mother died. Said her mother came to her and asked her to come with her, but she knew it wasn't her mother, something just wasn't right. Said if she went with her, she probably wouldn't be here today.

Lastly, on 9/11 when the WTC got hit by the planes, I was in a classroom watching it on TV. For some reason, everyone seen the scary demon figure, but I seen a man with a pretty face. (In the bible, they say lucifer was a pretty angel, before he fell.) You know how we see the picture of Jesus but we never seen him before in person, but we somehow know that, that picture is of him, that's how I knew who the face I saw in the smoke was. There is only one person to date, that has said that they had seen the same thing, and he is a religious person.

Sidenote: I am a religious person. I have been told that when you stray away from the faith, you are most vulnerable to being lured to go to the other side. That is the best explanation, I can come up with to these events.




posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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The best explanation to come up with these events is not some supernatural default position.

The simplest and best explanation for what happened to you and your mother after the deaths of loved ones is that you had a dream that played on your fears of death, and also of your fears of losing a close family member. The subconscious is a funny thing, it can make scary stuff happen without any intervention by some dubious outside entity.

As far as the "picture' thing you saw on 9/11, it means nothing. Our brains are wired to seek patterns where there are no patterns, and since we are social animals, the things we see most often (that aren't really there) are faces and the human form -- clouds, smoke, tree bark, even on tortillas. It doesn't mean some outside force had anything to do with it.

There is literally no evidence whatsoever for the existence of anything or anyone called the devil. It's all just stuff to keep people on the straight and narrow, instead of allowing them to be moral all on their own.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


So, do you believe Christianity was brought about to keep people on the straight and narrow? I am not debunking your argument, but would like to hear an explanation on that matter.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 05:40 PM
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I'm an atheist. I think religions were for when people didn't understand how stuff worked, and had no way of figuring it out. We now have the scientific method. It doesn't have all the answers, of course it doesn't. But it is a way of finding them. And someday we will have answers for things we don't now.

Back when religion began, people thought rain were spirits crying, thunder was god bowling, etc. Like any power structure, it eventually became a way to control people.

I get it that you're religious, I just want you to understand that I personally don't think religion is necessary -- morality comes from our biological roots and religion usurped it, and says it's the keeper of morals, when really, all morality is based on reciprocal altruism, something that occurs in animal interactions intra- and inter-species daily.

I just thought you should know that just because you don't understand something it doesn't mean that "the devil" or a "god" did it. Any and all explanations that come from natural law should be examined first, before even entertaining a supernatural explanation. Psychic ability, afterlife, the soul, etc. have yet to be proven empirically by objective evidence.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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Next time you experience some religious hocu pocus just tell the entity "Get outa here, I haven't the time for you". Remain calm and show no emotion. evil entities thrive on emotion.

I'm not religious but am agnostic and have gnosis. Hell is a fabrication of the human mind to frighten you into submission.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


I like the argument. I cannot comment because of the FEAR. I grew up in religion and when it's hammered into your head, that's all you know.... That's all I can really say on that. But, if you read between the lines, you will know what I am getting at.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by WorldShadow
 


Thanks.... Point Taken. I figured they can't just start pushing you around and such.


[edit on 20-9-2007 by jhill76]



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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The jury will be out for infinity of whether perceived paranormal/spirtitual/metaphysical occurences are real. I believe for those that experience them they very well are. Is it needed to go to a physicist to verify? I believe not for most. As for the scientists and atheists, you also are free to believe what you will. Just don't go snooty on us.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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I do understand. Well, sort of. I used to be a Christian myself, when I was a kid. I've only (in the past year) "owned" the fact that I'm an atheist and am learning what it means.

I get what you say about fear. I also am willing to bet dollars to donuts that you were raised in the church, and it's been part of your life for ALL of your life.

What that tells me is that you never had a choice, and you've never been given the opportunity to question your religion, or its leaders, about what is truth and what is myth.

It's taken me since I was 9 years old to finally break free of ALL superstition, including a lifelong belief in astrology. I'm not suggesting you do that -- I think everyone has a right to believe what they want to, despite what impression I may give here on ATS when I argue against some of the more hard-core fundamentalists about things.

I think you have a right to know, however, that there are different ways of looking at the world other than through the lens of a religion, and they do not mean that you are a bad person, or immoral -- even if you end up not believing in any kind of god at all.

I do know the fear you speak of. I was terrified of the dark until (how embarrassing) I was about 16 years old. I mean shaking, white-faced, under the covers if I heard a weird noise scared. I'd read too much horror, seen too much Creature Feature, and was just too imaginative for my own good. I know that the fear you feel is not rational, and is very real.

I also know that you can get through and past that fear by using your reasoning ability. You can learn how the world REALLY works, how your mind can play tricks, how we all evolved over billions of years from a soup of life-like chemicals, the true history of ancient times, how your body works, how disease works, how cultures work. It's through learning how things work and looking for a natural answer to a question first, that you can get rid of these fears.

I'm not saying give up your religion -- it's none of my business. There are people here on ATS that believe you can live with science and religion and they can co-exist happily in your consciousness.

I'm one of the "worst" kinds of atheist (according to some). I'm -- gasp! -- a scientific atheist. I don't tend to buy any theory about ANYTHING until it's been verified and reproduced, and there is real, objective evidence for it. I don't believe in ghosts anymore, zombies, demons, heaven, hell, devils or gods. It's all been very liberating for me to get rid of all that stuff.

But other people need it or want it in their lives.

I can tell you this: living with that kind of fear is not necessary. There is a reason your brain works the way it does -- rational thought is a gift.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 10:10 PM
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I think I understand you much better now Major. I can totally understand the circumstance of where you are. And that is totally cool. I believe you are a good person. You are obviously highly intelligent. I graduated at the 90% top of my class through my life. I endeavored my studies in the sciences, mathematics, earth sciences. Yet, things, unexplainable incredible things have happened in my otherwise mundane life that can not be explained in scientific sense. I remain open minded to realms outside of our understanding. We know quarks exist, no one has ever photographed them. I believe the key to the learning curve is allowing an open mind to all comers, even if that is construed as weakness by some. If I come upon a retarded person, I would show them the same compassion as anyone else.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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Just because I have a high standard of what acceptable evidence of something is, it doesn't mean I'm not open minded. I know that's hard for some people to understand, but it's true. Believe me, I spent years of my life "ghost hunting," and researching all sorts of religious and spiritual experiences in my quest to find whatever it was I thought I was missing.

My life experiences have shown me that there is a difference between having an open mind but demanding real, objective evidence of something, and believing something because it sounds good and there are a couple of web pages with some fuzzy pictures and pseudo-scientific explanations for it.

Anyway, I just wanted jhill to know that there are ways to think and look at the world that can remove that fear he's speaking of, or at least help keep it in control, instead of it controlling him.

It's OK to have beliefs, and think there must be MORE than this, but the only good way to look at the world, the only useful way, is through the lens of reason. Things that some people claim are paranormal may very well have a scientific explanation -- perhaps when we finally have a unified field theory some things that are mysteries now will be solved.

At any rate, trying to keep this thread on topic, jhill, fears like the ones you described, and that I have also experienced are actually quite primitive reactions to the unknown. the part of our brain I call our "monkey brain" but some scientists refer to as the reptile brain. It's the oldest part of our brain, where our fight or flight responses come from, as well as rage, xenophobia (us vs. them) and territoriality. The baser emotions.

The part of the brain that rational thought goes on in is the neocortex. This is where language occurs, consciousness, sensory perception, and a host of other higher functions.

When you have an irrational fear of something such as a dream, your reptile brain is in control, the oldest, most primitive part of your brain. By using the newest, most evolved part, the neocortex, to explore the fear rationally and find a reason for it, the fear is diminished.

You've obviously come here because you're questioning what your primitive brain is telling you. To me it looks like you're reaching out for something other than this irrational fear. The answers are out there -- you just have to ask the questions and then think about what you hear, not react to it.

Easier said than done, for everyone. but quite possible.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


If it is true, God knows my thoughts, so there is no need in not saying what I want to say.

For the longest, I have thought to myself, how do I know Christianity is the right religion? How do I know I am doing the right thing?

The thing that urks me the most, is the fact that as much as I pray as much as I go to church, the outcome is still the same. I have come to the conclusion that, we direct our own lives.

I don't know why, but when I hear about God on TV I turn away, when I hear about the bible I don't adhere to the conversation as I should (as I have been told) What can a person do, if out of 13 yrs. of your life you had to go to church every Sunday, you had to go to bible study, you had to sing in the choir?

I am scared writing this message of fear that God will somehow dislike what I am saying, but again he is understanding, and if I wanna question the basis of my beliefs, than am not doing anything wrong.

How did you pull away? How did you take the leap to say, I want out? I'm not saying I do, but I have put some thought into it.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:11 PM
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Jesus loves you, he will keep his promise jhill. If you believe he is the son of God... that he died for you, to cleanse your sin, you are granted the keys to the gates of life.

Open your Bible tonight, just open it and I promise you, the first scripture your eyes will see... it will be what you need.

I will pray for you.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:13 PM
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It wasn't something I wanted to do. I wanted to believe. I tried everything, well, lots of things. I never tried devil worship for instance.

I'm coming up on 43. I've been to several different Christian churches, visited a Buddhist temple while in Thailand, done sweat lodge, tried witchcraft, so many things over the course of my life! And the entire time I felt like a fake. The few experiences I had that seemed to be paranormal or faith-inspired all can be explained by mundane rationality.

There is not a thing wrong with questioning. If there was such a being as god, wouldn't it want you to use the brain it gave you? And if there isn't such a being as god, you evolved this brain, it represents millions upon millions of years of fine-tuning by natural selection, and it has abilities that are, so far as we know at this time, unique to us. Evolution gave you this brain: use it.

Either way, questioning is good. It's important to rely on your self, and what you think, and not what anybody else tells you.

If you want to know more about a particular scientific topic, google it, or ask here. There are people that can answer (most) questions you may have.

If you want to know about belief and disbelief, atheism and agnosticism, let me know. I can give you some links for reading about that. I have a thread going that's open to everyone, despite it's title, it's in my sig -- Atheist Chat. You can ask different atheists and agnostics what they think, and how they arrived at their conclusions about the supernatural. Nobody's going to pressure you to "join" us, but we will answer all your questions honestly, and some might say brutally.

But in the end, you'll have to make up your own mind. The world is what you make of it.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


Thanks, I will look it over and refer any more questions I have over there. I guess this thread took a whole different direction, lol.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:32 PM
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The movie what dreams may come had this model shown, it is in the sea of faces clip



Note how a condemned spirit tries to immitate Robin Williams father, he finishes with you are so close now.

Faith in Jesus Christ saved me, but the whole time during a period of spiritual conflict I was beseiged by attempts to break my faith and make me vunerable.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 

Thanks, I need it... Sorry for the one-liner, but how can you elaborate on that.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Redge777
 

Wow, so are you saying in the last sentence you were the one, or Robin Williams?



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:49 PM
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the robin Willian clip is an example of what you mentioned of spirits imitating a family member while he is entering into a point of spiritual conflict. Just my interpretation but it is possible it comes from authors experiance.

Personally I had similiar experiance where darkness immitated family to try and decieve me, The words of Christ "My sheep know my voice" helped me out there, I learned decernment and got through it.

[edit on 20-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 11:56 PM
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MM is right you should always look to all normal reasons for a paranormal occurance first, if then there are still no answers then look to the paranormal or supernatural explanation. But personally i thought it was curious that your mother said she had a similar thing happen to her, did she ever mention it to you before you had yours? My personal experiences allow me to know ghosts and demons exist. and to be honest i didnt grow up in a religous house by any stretch of the imagination if anything my Father told us to question our faith and beliefs.



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