Should teachers be allowed to pack a gun?

Originally posted by LockwithnoKey


BTW...I live in Medford where this woman teaches.

I can testify that there is NO security at any of Oregons Schools that is up to par.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by LockwithnoKey]

Small world... Eagle Point! The teacher has a standing valid death threat and normally packs heat based on the concealed weapons law here in Oregon. its not against the law, just district policy. I wholly agree on the no security in the Oregon schools which is why she feels the need to pack it.

if a teacher and a gunman have a stand off in close quarters, yes the chance of an innocent kid getting hit increases. but if there is only one gun, the gunman can kill EVERYONE before the cops can get there.

this is a horrible idea....

as a current student myself.. i would like to say this would not work...

if students knew the teacher had A gun... ESPECIALLY a teacher they dont see eye to eye with.. they would definately get a gun themselves...

and what happens when a teacher leaves the room?
do they lock the drawer w/ the gun in it?

if they locked the drawer with the gun in it every time they stepped away from the desk then how would it be usefull if somone pulled a gun?

If the teacher did not lock it in the drawer.. and say had to step outside to talk to a fellow teacher or parent... what would stop a kid who normally couldnt get their hands on a gun... walks up to the desk and takes it?

there are too many variables in this situation.. .honestly...


and most of all... even tho teachers may take a class on firearm safety... DOESNT mean they will know how to react when they are in a situation when they are fired upon...

if a teacher panics wouldnt that throw more student deaths into the equaton?


Schools should all just invest in Metal Detectors, at EVERY entrance to the school... and monitored at all times... there should be no way pst these metal detectors...

as for college... idk... take class online? lol

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Just one student carrying at VA Tech couldve stopped that Cho guy from having a murder field day.

Currently, there is a huge gang problem in schools. Where I went to school, there would a fight everyday between Asian gangs, Latinos, and Blacks. The gangs got so out of hand, the school was thinking of splitting up the grades into different schools.

Now just think what will happen if the people who are so angry at each other that they are willing to fight and leave the other person bloodied up each carries a gun to the fight.

Having children carry guns is the worst choice possible. If I had children, I would not want them to train how to kill people, much less their fellow classmates if they suspect them of going rogue.

As for teachers, firearm training is not enough. They must also have the will to shoot one of their students. Not everyone has the mentality needed to fire a gun and kill someone they knew and taught for a year.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by arpgme
No. If students aren't allowed to do it , why should teachers be able to?

If police are allowed to carry around their guns, then why can't we?
Police are here to protect us, and therefore teachers should also protect their students. If it becomes too late, when the attacker sets foot in the school, that is his/her warzone. Police would take forever to get their, every minute is crucial.

I dont see this working seeing that schools dont have that much money to begin with so there going to teach every teacher to shoot? come on we all know that there will be some accidental shooting. and then students will be saying to them self that if teachers get to bring guns then I can too.. also they may look at it as since the teachers have guns they they have to carry one to defend themselves from the teachers..

I just had a thought about students and firearms (not guns..)

if the the so-called NWO i hear so much aobut is really out there... wouldnt this make it easier. for them to "brainwash" the children?

i mean honestly.. first it starts out with a firearm issued to teachers.. ( i would not like to see a teacher able to bring their own firearm.. that could be a hazard.)

Then all of a sudden people think that the teachers are not properly trained to handle a firearm.... so what does the governemnt do?

sends in military personel to teach the classes and keep the class in strict order...

and honestly.. if the NWO ever tried this.. u think they would issue a firearm to all children on campus? honestly... it would be ANIT-Progressive... (if thats even a phrase/word/ whatever)

this is all hypothetical of course... because we all know aobut the NWO and they dont exist...

i HONESTLY think all school should have issued drug dogs.... and metal detectors... and more than 1 officer on campus (even in highschools)...

or we could all attend class on computers at home using programs like NovaNet... (then of course we will all be unsocial and may set up an even worse of an environment)

and i know what everyone will say... .. the schools don't have enough money for security updates (such as drug dogs metal detectors added cameras and increased police prescence)...

we could always stop the ridiculous (cant spell) war with Iraq and all the middle eastern countries im not sure of... and put some of that money towards the educational system....



did my edit not work?

on a serious note

I have read a study about "at risk" students being able to excell in a school enviroment that is less hostile, more relaxed, has caring staff, and actualy feeds the students well.. (none of that government food..)

if this actualy works... would it be possible to do this with more "at risk" students and actualy reduce the amount of stress they face.. in return reducing the amount of violent crime on campus?...


just a thought...


the study can be found here
www.michaelfieldsaginst.org...

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Sad Lil Alex]

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Sad Lil Alex]

Im a teacher.

No.

Guns can be taken away.

Criminals already run through schools to escape police.

Now theyd be looking to get a gun too.

Its contrary to the caring classroom community.

No

No! No! plucky says no!

Nope. Just put 1 armed officer for every 4 classrooms in school along with cameras in every classroom (Not sure if they do that). That's really it. More security...but don't put the teachers in charge of it.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Currently, there is a huge gang problem in schools. Where I went to school, there would a fight everyday between Asian gangs, Latinos, and Blacks. The gangs got so out of hand, the school was thinking of splitting up the grades into different schools.

Now just think what will happen if the people who are so angry at each other that they are willing to fight and leave the other person bloodied up each carries a gun to the fight.

Having children carry guns is the worst choice possible. If I had children, I would not want them to train how to kill people, much less their fellow classmates if they suspect them of going rogue.
[edit on 18-9-2007 by DJMessiah]

The feeling Im getting here is that I dont have the extreme exposure to hordes of irrational and psychotic people many of you seem to have.

Perhaps I think of firearms as just being an everyday part of life because for me they are never used by rational people in irrational ways. Ive been out of public school for over a decade, have no intention of sending my kids off to be educated by the government and do not associate, relate with or speak to people who exhibit any sort of backwards 'gang' mentality or who would ever reach for a firearm to solve a personal or relationtal problem.

What sane individual assaults another because of affiliation or what student honestly believes because he may not be on the best terms with a teacher that teacher is mere moments away from causing an end to said students life? Now I know adolescence is a time of stress and turmoil but such a fear is ridiculous. Dont kids play football anymore or go on hunting trips or do anything besides assault each other for absolutely no other reason than for the sake of assault?

It sounds to me like the existance, use and ownership of firearms is not your priority one problem. Sound like you have generations of rabid psychotics growing up all around you for whatever reason.

What the hell is wrong with people? Eating lead paint chips? Toxic water? Rap music? No church attendance? High density city life? Too many mood medications? Broken homes? Trust me. Guns arent the problem. Modern cartridge firearms have been in use and existance for over a hundred years now and never before have they had the reputation they apparently do now. The problem is that these people believe it is appropriate to behave this way. And this problem is not as widespread as you'd think. I spent the greater part of my life never having run into an 'anti-gun' person or hearing anyone blame a murder on the firearm. Frankly Im puzzled as to how this anti-gun notion grew to be as vocal as it has. All of that space between L.A. and N.Y.C. is filled by people who share my confusion.

When a kid turns 7 or 8 he gets his first rifle. He should be out all the time with is dad, granddad even his mom using it and learning about it. Its a part of everyday life. Now you take some city kid who grew up on shoot'em up movies, video games in a government school and with drunk parent(s) and he's going to see guns as this taboo Scarface-esque power idiocy and of course that's going to be trouble. But it isnt the guns fault. Just as some teen looks at muscle cars as an excuse to drive 120 down the road. It isnt the cars fault. There's something wrong with the perception in that individuals mind.

People have to stop raising idiot kids and idiot parents need to stop being afraid of every little thing they dont understand. Id say people need to leave cities. Cities and high population densities are poison for society.

Having a gun can be a BIG BIG mistake,
First of all when I was in school, some of the teachers I could never trust, they were crazy, second can you trust the students!

The amount of times Ive heard of some teachers belonings get stolen is beyond belief, imagine some kid stole the gun, or got shot by accident because the teacher panics, imagine the teacher threatens kids , Ill shoot you if you don't do your homework haha, it can happen,
I don't think this is a good idea at all.

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Im a teacher.

No.

Guns can be taken away.

Criminals already run through schools to escape police.

Now theyd be looking to get a gun too.

Its contrary to the caring classroom community.

No

No! No! plucky says no!

Exactly, not only do I not trust all the teachers in school, Im sure you might have a couple of fellow teachers that you might not trust so much with a gun?
but how can anyone think its right to have a gun with really untrustworthy students around!
It would be a thrill to them to get the teacher to take the gun out, or show it, or secretly steal it.
What if the teacher is really trigger happy, and takes out the gun every time little things happens, like 2 students fighting, its not a very good idea at all.

PLEASE!

people, this is a very strange discussion...
I hope you all know that violence is never solved with violence...
This thread is a product from so called scare-tactics...
We live in a fear based world and i think that the solution can be found in turning that fear
into hope... PERIOD

the knightfook

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
It would be a thrill to them to get the teacher to take the gun out, or show it, or secretly steal it.
What if the teacher is really trigger happy, and takes out the gun every time little things happens, like 2 students fighting, its not a very good idea at all.

That goes against basic caryy etiquette. The gun stays on the owner at all times. If it is out of reach it is considered unlawfully/unsafe loaded and you'll get charged with a felony.

Normal sensible people dont just pull a firearm for no reason.

A firearm should never be pulled because of a fist fight. Just because an individual is carrying a firearm doesnt mean they magically qualify as peace officers. That carried arm is for defense against an impending and unavoidable attack on your person. If in the course of students fighting one presents a weapon or is so obviously stomping the head of another student then the use of that firearm to defend the life of the victim student is acceptable but because of the nature of a crowded hall of shouting students and the close proxinity of the students to each other discharging the firarm would be foolish.

Its as those who fear an individual with a firearm are assuming a complete lack of reasoning, training and ability on part of the possesor. Do you all really have such little faith in your fellow man?

As an NRA instructor I can personall attest to the fact that the average gun owner/enthusiest/sportsmen gets far greater training than your average police officer. An officer of the law may run 100 rounds/year though his service weapon but the average civilian gun owner will put that many through in an hour on a Sunday at the range.

IDPA the NRA and a bunch of other organizations offer classes constantly on defensive tactics, drills, and other training that fill up all the time. The trigger happy, irrational, freak of a gun owner is a myth plain and simple.

If an irrational freak of a criminal happens to have a gun, well. He's a criminal and not exactly what anyone would call a "gun owner." More like a "gun haver."

i am all for guns and i own many.....

that said, the day teachers start to pack pistols is the day my kid stops going to school.

i'm supposed to trust other people with guns around my kid?
nah...
i know they are out there but fact is, the only one i trust with a pistol around my son is me....NO WAY he goes to a school where his teacher has a glock....

Students in class on the first day will not be asking what are we going to do today? What are the objectives of the class? How will I be graded? What kind of tests?

The real question in their minds when seeing a teacher with a gun come into class is when will they get shot?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Normal sensible people dont just pull a firearm for no reason.

you know, normal sensible people(teachers) shouldn't rail their students either but it happens ALL the time....

give teachers guns and it will take all of a day for a kid to snatch one...
insane idea...

teachers are there to teach...not there to try and take out a cho like kid...
i wouldn't want my kids teacher packing and have something go down and the teacher pulls it out...shots get fired and innocent people get hit...

Originally posted by deltaboy
Students in class on the first day will not be asking what are we going to do today? What are the objectives of the class? How will I be graded? What kind of tests?

The real question in their minds when seeing a teacher with a gun come into class is when will they get shot?

Do you struggle everyday when you see a police officer with that fear? Is he going to shoot you? How about driving past a gun shop? Will everyone just run out shooting at you? Uh-oh, the mailman might be crazy! It must be a stressful life. Perhaps if children were made aware of firearms and even joined a local rifle club or the schools didnt abandon the rifle teams they wouldnt be thinking such paranoid thoughts?

And Boondock, you have to know that at any given moment you could be surrounded by people carrying firearms both legally and illegally. Do you also live in perpetual fear of shootouts? Spend a day out watching for printing. You'd be amazed by what you see. Maybe I see it because I'm trained to see it but it's everywhere. Ive also found that most "non-gun" people wont see it or notice it even if you point it out. Hell, most non-gun people dont notice when a firearm is present even in an open carry situation.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

And Boondock, you have to know that at any given moment you could be surrounded by people carrying firearms both legally and illegally. Do you also live in perpetual fear of shootouts? Spend a day out watching for printing. You'd be amazed by what you see. Maybe I see it because I'm trained to see it but it's everywhere. Ive also found that most "non-gun" people wont see it or notice it even if you point it out. Hell, most non-gun people dont notice when a firearm is present even in an open carry situation.

yeah, i know that...i do not live in fear of shootouts...

also, i'm not a 'non gun' person....i have many. i am on my couch on my laptop and i have one right next to me on the table.....

not every 'pro gun' guy wants them to be everywhere....

when it comes to peoples kids, everyone is going to feel differently...thats something you have to understand....don't care what you are trained for.,...

when it comes to your kids, you look through it with different eyes....

YOU want to send YOUR kid to a school where teachers pack, have at it man.....i won't...thats just how it is....

NOTHING gonna change my mind about that...promise you that

Originally posted by Boondock78

YOU want to send YOUR kid to a school where teachers pack, have at it man.....i won't...thats just how it is....

NOTHING gonna change my mind about that...promise you that

Alright Ill give you that. Currently we dont have a choice though do we? At least not where I am. Its a blanket law thats created these gun-free zones. The best I can do is home school. Offer me a private or charter school with carrying faculty and a healthy hunting, shooting extracurricular focus and Ill send my kids there in a heartbeat. Id pay good money for the opportunity to send my kids to such a school.