WTC Primary explosives to soften up building

Dear 9/11 ATSers,

I recently compiled a few videos that contain small yet bright flashes occuring all over the WTC before they collapse. At first I thought this maybe debris reflecting light but these flashes can be observed from multiple camera angles so it must be something else. I am wondering if these flashes are consistant with c4 or another type of conventional explosive used to demolish buildings. They are very similiar to what one might expect to see in a legal demolition.



I guess if they really did use conventional explosives then they really did manage to load up the building with lots of charges unnoticed. But how did they do it? How the hell could they get that much explosives all over the towers without people noticing! Whats more, can c4 get all the concrete pulverised? I still suspect these explosives were augmented with some high tech explosives.


Another video containing primary det flashes


One of my friends took a guess and suggested that perhaps the explosives may of been distributed via the mail system within the building, some how getting explosives mailed to all the different offices which I thought could be a practical idea but whether that's possible i am not sure. Perhaps one of the operators were working in the WTC mail administration?

South Tower NBC Closeups Version 2



Look forward to reading your thoughts and responses on this as always.

Inso

Why mail explosives? Too risky. . .

Plus, you couldn't just deliver packages to different locations within the building and have them cut columns with precision. Much more energy would be required to do this, and it would have probably been very apparent that parts of the buildings were exploding.

I'm sure at that time there would have been many more covert ways to get charges into the towers. ( Remember the power down & the bomb sniffing dogs not being present? ).

Don't get me wrong. I don't subscribe to the idea that plane strikes & fires caused the towers to fall the way they did, but the flashes in these videos all seem to appear where there is sunlight present.

You can even see flashes of light in the falling debris, but only in areas of sunlight. Broken windows perhaps?

I do see "jets" of material exiting the buildings within shaded areas. There have been a few theories as to what these are also. . .

2PacSade-

i've always thought it strange that were 100 elevator maintenance guys that day. that's a lot of elevator guys by a factor of about ten, i figger. (meaning, 10 guys should be able to maintain the elevators, and 100 being WAY TOO MANY).
and, apparently, they all left the building, even though their expertise would have been invaluable in saving people.
unless they weren't REALLY elevator maintenance workers.

Well, it could have been easy to place explosives within the building. I have seen many documentaries talking about the 2 week long full security check of the buildings, and before this check (or was it after) the pulling of all bomb sniffing dogs.

Originally posted by billybob
i've always thought it strange that were 100 elevator maintenance guys that day. [...]
and, apparently, they all left the building, even though their expertise would have been invaluable in saving people.

And the company that serviced the WTC elevators serviced them almost exclusively, meaning no other real business. And they quietly went out of business (or declared bankruptcy or something along those lines) a few years after the towers fell.

So if someone wanted to suggest that the elevator service teams were fronts for "dirty business", and were deliberately allowed to "service" the elevators as such, then at least so far the idea seems to work out with the stereotype of a small front company, say for the CIA or even the Rockefeller family and friends.

And I agree that having around 100 maintenance personnel that early in the morning is a bit much. That's about 2 elevators to a person in both buildings, when the figure I'm finding for the number of elevators in both towers is 198. I find it very hard to believe that it's practical to keep a technician to every two elevators to keep them functioning in the mornings. They must have been having a lot of "problems" with the elevators, and there were rumors of all kinds of elevator problems in the days leading up to 9/11, some of the main ones being closed in the days prior.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by 2PacSade
( Remember the power down & the bomb sniffing dogs not being present? ).

There was only one power down in one of the buildings offices. Athough this has only been confirmed by one person.

The bomb sniffing dogs were not removed. The extra dogs were. Sirius was one of the dogs that was there full time and died in his Kennel during the collapse after he did his investigation:

our.homewithgod.com...

Charles Gregory Costello Jr., 46, Old Bridge, N.J., USA
elevator technician, Thyssen Kropp
Confirmed dead, World Trade Center, at/in building
www.cnn.com...

I believe the Name of the Elevator company where this man worked is Thyssen Krupp. Not sure if he had anythign at all to do with the company that served there.

the Company that was in charge of the maintenance was ACE Elevator. 1994 they got the contract from Otis Elevator. The workers were gathered as the recieved the emergency call after the first plane hit(around 80 of them) waiting for thier assignments when the North tower got hit. In fear of thier own safety they actually left the scene, when approx. 200 people died in elevators.

Many of the mechanics from Otis elevator (who are still in business) stayed on and worked for ACE, and were involved in the rescues during the 1993 bombing.

Although the Port Authoirty kind of had their own way of doing things, they were instructed to keep their elevators up to code:

Newly installed safety devices condemned many people to death.
To comply with building codes, the World Trade Center since 1996 had been adding locks that made it impossible for passengers to force open the doors of stalled elevators. These locks, called "door restrictors," had been added to about half of the 198 elevators in the twin towers. Nobody is known to have escaped from an elevator locked by a door restrictor. The World Trade Center followed a long-established approach to elevator rescues: Leave people inside stalled elevators until professionals can perform rescues. The elevators had three mechanisms, including the restrictors, designed to prevent people from accidentally falling down elevator shafts. An untold number were still trapped when the buildings collapsed.

www.usatoday.com...

The reason why I bring this up is that to suggest there would be a CIA led team of psudeo mechanics in for a black op is VERY far fetched. Seeing that ACE were told to comply with building codes, suggests that in addition they would also have to comply with yearly elevator inspections. These inspections are done by a state elevator inspector with representatives from the maintenance company. The inspectors often ride on the top of the cars to check the shafts.

In my opinion, there is no way elevator mechanics would NOT notice ANY type of explosives strapped inside their shafts. Most mechanics that maintain their buildings are constantly inside the shafts on any floor at any time almost EVERY day. Also, i believe elevator companies are union (most of them) I can not verify if ACE was. My point being, these guys all know each other and I feel it is safe to assume that they wold notice a mechanic that did not belong., or strapping C-4 inside a shaft.

In reply about the elevators....

I work in the elevator industry.

The door restrictors are a requirement by code, to prevent the doors from being opened. If an elevator stops between floors, the doors should not open, to prevent someone from being squished, should the elevator start to move again. Door restrictors are very common and should be on every elevator. If they're not, someone is violating code.

As far as the technicians being in the elevator shafts every day, that isn't necessarily true. Most elevators machine rooms where a lot of work can be done without actually ever having to look into the shaft. It would have to be a specific problem before a tech would venture into the shaft. So to say that they're in there almost every day isn't correct. However if there was something in the shaft that didn't belong, well they might miss it, depending on where it was located and exactly where the elevator malfunctioned and needed repair.

Originally posted by bsbray11

And the company that serviced the WTC elevators serviced them almost exclusively, meaning no other real business. And they quietly went out of business (or declared bankruptcy or something along those lines) a few years after the towers fell.

Actually how does one claim chapter 11 quietly? It is not a private thing. So "along those lines" actually was a public chapter 11 claim that they filed on December 21, 2004.

the fianl ruling for bankrupsty protection was not ruled until June 23rd 2006 and was not quiet at all as this took over 2 years.

Ifyou wish to read the memorandom on the decision it ishere

Originally posted by bsbray11So if someone wanted to suggest that the elevator service teams were fronts for "dirty business", and were deliberately allowed to "service" the elevators as such, then at least so far the idea seems to work out with the stereotype of a small front company, say for the CIA or even the Rockefeller family and friends.

Not sure why there would be a 2 1/2 year bankruptsy battle if this was a CIA run operation.

reply to post by elevatedone



Good point about the machine rooms. Very true. We are talking about 198 elevators here, so the odds of at least one of them having someone inside one of the shafts each day is VERY possible if not probable.

Another point i was making is that ACE was required by law to have an annual inspection of their hoistways and cabs like every other company. I'm sure you know, you are at the mercy of the state inspectors as to when you have this done. Assuming that it takes at least 2 hours to inspect each elevator.(a very rough estimate probably more) The state would be at the WTC complex for MANY days through out the year.

edit to add:
the inspections I have been invloved with require the testing of all smoke detectors at the landings to activate the firefighters recall, generator back up, etc etc. This would take all night (or day) on only 3-4 MUCH smaller elevators.




[edit on 18-9-2007 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Actually how does one claim chapter 11 quietly?

I meant that no one's ever really considered the elevator service company or all of its employees there that day for much of anything at all.

In 1993, they were all over the news papers along with the fire and police departments for all of the people they helped save. In 2001, there were apparently 100 employees there that morning and they all split when they got the chance. Virtually every core column on every floor was accessible from the elevator shafts. Not-so-coincidentally, virtually every core column I've ever seen in the debris piles at Ground Zero has had a perfectly lateral, clean slice right through it where it failed. These columns were continuously welded all the way up the buildings. Torch cuts are way off from these kinds of cuts through the steel.

Not sure why there would be a 2 1/2 year bankruptsy battle if this was a CIA run operation.

You make it sound like I'm talking about the whole CIA. How many men were wholly in on the Teapot Dome scandal? Somebody's bound to be making profit on the side from any company, and I'm not saying it's a group effort from the CIA using your tax-paying dollars, all thought up down at Langley.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
The bomb sniffing dogs were not removed. The extra dogs were. Sirius was one of the dogs that was there full time and died in his Kennel during the collapse after he did his investigation:

Yes, he was the ONLY bomb sniffing dog that day. Can a dog smell explosives a hundred stories up? Can he even smell them ONE story up? I'd say no since they have to lead the dog around the vehicle and not just have him there. People could have brought explosives in the front door without Sirius even knowing. Why? He was in the basement sniffing the vehicles and not near the front door. Dog's noses aren't that good.

Jesus at the end of the second video thats what sold it for me . I've always thought the last few seconds before that spire turned to dust was just dust falling off of it but when you reverse the video you can clearly see something else is going on whatever explosives were used at ground zero I think it's safe to say that they were exotic in nature .

Ground Zero sounds like a Nuclear term dont you think?

Originally posted by chris0871
Ground Zero sounds like a Nuclear term dont you think?

it had another meaning before oppenheimer. it meant, 'a starting point'.

aren't double entendres wonderful?