What is the role and origin of the book of Revelation?

Personally for me the book of revelation is an important inclusion to the bible, it tells a christian what is to come so that when it does we need not be afraid of it. It is also an important addition for the semi and non believers in the sense that when these events happen they are not without hope either, because it illustrates the time that all the atheist's have been asking for, God reveling himself to the entire world, and that they still have time to accept him. Mind oyu that is just the way i tend to veiw it mind you that while i am catholic i dont belong to a particular church, i feel that i am perfectly capable of exercizing forgivness, charity and compassion on my own and not have to worry about whose parents my donations are paying off.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy

People would listen to the theme of redemption and salvation, then came the hammer of revelations, to terrorize and bring home the marketing aspect of the new Christian Faith.
It was meant to terrorize and use fear as a tool, to bring masses of people under control. The Original sibyl cults were stamped out by the new christian church. In later years this church would massacre hundreds of thousands if not millions during the witch hunts, the cathars, etc, etc. for the same reason, the truth is a dangerous thing.

The Bible is a book, nothing more. it has no value in of itself, it will not save you unless you have one of those really big ones to use as a weapon.

The message it contains, however is a worth reading, then letting the book go and understanding the journey Christ is trying to place you on is the key.

Spoken like a true non-believer! No born-again, spirit-filled believer finds any fear in the book of Revelations. Because once you understand it's true meanings, there are blessings, and promises of hope. And if you are reading this book with the carnal mind, then I can see where you might have reason to fear.
Also, in your above quote, when you mention, 'this church' as the one that massacred millions; would that have been the Roman Catholic Church? In my opinion they have very little in common with true christians. Do your homework.

[edit on 9/23/2007 by janasstar]

I too have been trying to wipe the philosophical crap off my shoes an dfind the original stories- it's kind of been like 'telephone line' as a kid- the message gets continually changed as it moves through each person.
I'm so far moving beyond the Eyptians and greeks- there were even more pagan then them. Of course faith is just away to expalin the inexplainable. When your child dies you look for a reason- you've done something bad to deserve something bad ( works for good too) Once faith became religion the 'leaders' used the fear of punishment to control the masses. Nothing more. We are living a self fulfilling prophecy of delusional people. They have no faith just religion. the books are just the religions way of blending stories of faith with techniques of mind control
Man is not innately bad, we are a community animal.We thrive better in groups as a species. religion treats us more like a rabid pack of wolves that must be restrained- I doubt that if there was a god or gods we are in it s'image'. And if we are then we better re evaluate who are god is and what is it's intentions.
Faith/ spirituality/ heaven is a intimate relationship with the world around us and all that we have been given (by a god or just good ol' nature). don't buy into their sales pitch- they only want you to obey and praise them, nothing truly holy or humane in that game.

organized religion is organized religion...no difference. Catholic church, the current evangelical craze, its all the same

Christ didnt build churches or set about writing books...that was man's doing. People corrupt what was pure and sacred, turn it into a marketing program.

Christ never asked someone what they believed in, simply fed them, housed them, healed them and sent them on their way to sin no more.


He didnt attempt to terrify anyone into believing, that was something people who lived afterwards embarked upon.
Revelations is a book copied from earlier texts and prophesies, mainly from the same cults ( sibyls) the new christian church then goes on murder sprees to stamp out. its a huge ugly stain, but no different than any other corruption in humanitys history.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy

organized religion is organized religion...no difference. Catholic church, the current evangelical craze, its all the same

Christ didnt build churches or set about writing books...that was man's doing. People corrupt what was pure and sacred, turn it into a marketing program.

God inspiried The Book and it is pure and sacred. If you don't wish to be misled stay away from religions and be a Christian which is a way of life. Learn what He wrote in His letter to us. Please don't tell me how corrupted the Bible is. Stay with the King James and a Strong's Concordance and stop listening to atheistic comments of people that believe anything told to them if it is against God.

Christ never asked someone what they believed in, simply fed them, housed them, healed them and sent them on their way to sin no more.

He didnt attempt to terrify anyone into believing, that was something people who lived afterwards embarked upon.

He also instructed them what was necessary if they wanted eternal life. No one that believes in Him is terrified. Why would you be terrified of someone who loves you and that you love in return?

Revelations is a book copied from earlier texts and prophesies, mainly from the same cults ( sibyls) the new christian church then goes on murder sprees to stamp out. its a huge ugly stain, but no different than any other corruption in humanitys history.

Revelation means to reveal and the book does that to some, apparently not all and that is a shame. Believe what you will but you err if you take the word of others over that of God.



............Whirlwind

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
Christ didnt build churches

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." - Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:18

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
or set about writing books...

"I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." - Christ in Revelation 1:18-19

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
Christ never asked someone what they believed in,

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" - Christ in John 9:35

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
simply fed them,

He did more than just feed them:

"Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever." - John 6:49-51

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
housed them,

What house did Jesus own?

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
healed them and sent them on their way to sin no more.

He did heal them and sent some on his way.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
He didnt attempt to terrify anyone into believing, that was something people who lived afterwards embarked upon.

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." - Matthew 5:30

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." - Luke 12:5

Again, all Christ's words.

Who did Christ kill? Who did someone following Christ's words kill?

[edit on 25-9-2007 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

Again, all Christ's words.

Beautifully stated. Thank you.


.........Whirlwind

The Historical evidence how the bible was assembled is irrefutable, the bible was assembled over thousands of years by people. Some of the book was based on far earlier writings ( the epic of Gilgamesh for example), mostly the phoenician trading system spread fables far and wide ; adam and eve, Noah, many of these stories occur in cultures far earlier than the Israelites, they just change names to fit the times.

Hebrew scribes write down these stories and fables, and thats fine. The same occurs with revelations, it is based on earlier writings that were copied and names / events changed to fit the times.

The problem i see is Christians believe in a book, instead of what the book stands for. Christ never wrote anything down, he did not want objects to be worshipped, it is idolatry. He knew humanity tends to fixate on physical objects instead of what they stand for.

If the Bible is a collection of stories copied from earlier versions...so what? that does not corrupt the message it contains. People need to stop fixating and attempting to justify Faith in a book, it goes against the grain of all Christ taught.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy

The Historical evidence how the bible was assembled is irrefutable, the bible was assembled over thousands of years by people. Some of the book was based on far earlier writings ( the epic of Gilgamesh for example), mostly the phoenician trading system spread fables far and wide ; adam and eve, Noah, many of these stories occur in cultures far earlier than the Israelites, they just change names to fit the times.

The Bible was inspired by God and written by different people He selected over a period of time. That makes it all the more amazing in that the story stays true throughout.

The Book was NOT based on Gilgamesh. Because the Babylonians had written language before the Hebews (at least as far as artifacts show) doesn't mean the story was from them. Consider the possibility that Cain, when thrown out of the garden, traveled to that area and that was the "city that he builded". He would certainly know the story of his parents and the creation. His hatred of God would account for the mixed up, confusing tale that Gilgamesh is.

Hebrew scribes write down these stories and fables, and thats fine. The same occurs with revelations, it is based on earlier writings that were copied and names / events changed to fit the times.

The Book of Daniel is an overlay of Revelation and both hold a wealth of information. The events were not changed. They both speak of the same time.

The problem i see is Christians believe in a book, instead of what the book stands for. Christ never wrote anything down, he did not want objects to be worshipped, it is idolatry. He knew humanity tends to fixate on physical objects instead of what they stand for.

If the Bible is a collection of stories copied from earlier versions...so what? that does not corrupt the message it contains. People need to stop fixating and attempting to justify Faith in a book, it goes against the grain of all Christ taught.

Christians do believe the Book because it is the letter our Father sent us. It isn't worshipped but the words it contains are sacred. Remember Christ told us:

Heb.10:7 Then said I, Lo I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me) to do Thy will, O God."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


He foretold us all things (Mk.13:23) but we must read it to hear and understand what He wishes us to know.



..............Whirlwind

There was the old testament, and then JC hit the deck. Then there were a few years and his best sayings got picked up. Then all manner of weird stuff happened. This bloke Saul, or is it Paul, was attacking Christians, then when he converted, the Greek Philosophical Schools. Then revelations, yes during that time, they used hallucinogenics. I'm not decrying them, they were used by the Oracles of Delphi, with magical diplomatic effect. But revelations is a trip, one hell of a trip, but a trip. Then the Romans took over Christianity and everyone cried at knife point..... The Romans have still wrecked it.

words are not sacred...jesus was infuriated with scribes and scholars who knew every letter of the law and yet walked past hungry and homeless every day...reading books is not what Christ taught. helping your brother is what Christ taught...over an over again, and yet most never understand the path.


The historical evidence of the Bible is overwhelmingly on the side of corruption, power mad emperors and religious zealots. They assembled a religious document that would allow oppression of women, the right to intercede between man and god, and the misappropiation of Christs message on earth.


Revelations is the cherry on top, meant to scare people into believing when Christ did no such thing. It was negotiated into the bible by meetings of European leaders that needed to hammer home their authority and right.
It is sickening to read and was plagiarized from cults that were popular in rome at the time. Compare the writings of Sibyls and revelations, they are rough draft and then finished form, sybils written hundreds of years before revelations. Historical records do not lie, yet people cannot see truth laid out before them.
Daniel is not close to what sibyl and revelations books detail. Roman authorities both religious and secular knew exactly what they were doing, and why they needed to murder the cults, women, cathars, and anyone else that knew the truth.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
Revelations is the cherry on top,

A cherry you don't want to pick?

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
meant to scare people into believing when Christ did no such thing.

If you're going to repeat yourself, so will I:

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." - Matthew 5:30

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." - Luke 12:5

Again, all Christ's words.

The individual that started this thread is correct to question the book of revelations...it is out of place, as many books of the Bible are. The modern Bible is a mishmash of many beliefs, fables, stories and parables handed down for thousands of years before Christ walked the earth.

The early church murdered competing theologists, hunted down and commited genocide on those that did not toe the line of their ideal what god represents and the path to heaven. The evolution of Chistianity is ugly, perverse and bloody, however it is the Truth.

the Nag Hamaadi books, the dead sea scrolls, these shed a new light on the early church. How it was formed, the competing theologies, and the evolution of modern Christianity. It casts new light on what the early church tried to stamp out.

God does not live in a book. For the last two thousand years humanity has attempted to fit god into a manmade construction called the Bible. It had caused despair, murder, genocide, crusades, witch hunts, oppression and unfortunately directing people to a place god does not exist.


The word did not "become god" and or vice versa. The greek Word LOGOS, which was mistranslated into english as the literal word on a page, is not accurate.
Logos is an action, an intent and active form of god. It is Gods involvement with humanity, not mans involvement with the printing press. The LOGOS of God is not words on a page, but the direct intervention of god with humanity.
i cringe each time i heard someone state " this is the word of God" as if they were holding the sacred writings of God. they held no such thing and did not even understand what they were reading, nor what they were saying.


People have access to research and tools earlier humanity did not have. People can question and rightly arrive at conclusion they have been lied too and decieved by the early, middle and most of the present church.
When they do this, and begin to question the perspective of God, the perversiveness of the modern church, they begin the true path Christ left for us.