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Bowman Now Calls For Impeachment: Asks Military To Refuse Orders To Attack IRAN

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:38 PM
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Again Grover,

You post opinion in the face of fact..

At least you have an opinion, it isn't fact, but you have a sense of drama at least...

Semper




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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So Bowman has decided to stand with the likes of Rosie O' Donnell and call for the impeachment of Bush, dont get me wrong, I think Bush is less than sufficient as a president, but as an earlier poster stated: "we voted him in" and now that we dont like the result's we want to take drastic measures to "right the wrong" we feel we've made with Bush, asking our military leaders to disobey orders given to attack Iran would be seen as a sign of weakness to the rest of the world, and dissention in the ranks of our military could be the result of refusal to carry out orders given. Russia and China could see this weakness and decide that we are ripe for overtaking and decide an attack is in order, a chance to finally rid the world of democracy............Communisim Wins!!



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I must been hallucinating when I watched Ambassador Crocker say that this evening on the news in a clip from he and Petreus' report to congress.

Damn acid flashbacks. hate that when that happens.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
On topic, many people here complain about the losing of freedom but at the same time they will welcome the military staging a coupe?!?!

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Bunch]


that's not really what people are suggesting. People are just suggesting that, given all the "questionable" things piled upon questionable things it might be reasonable to expect the military, as a whole, to simply refuse to obey an order that seems clearly on the wrong side of the "right/wrong" divide.

i'm sure nobody wants a coup, just like nobody wants to see the conflict in the middle east escalated to a point where the president would find it justifiable to enact martial law.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I'm with you Semper. As a Marine I can tell you my opinion is the same as yours. Soldiers are trained to follow orders, not to interpret International law, politics, foreign affairs etc.

Asking our military to disobey a direct order is treasonous to say the least, especially if anyone considers doing so.

Wake up tomorrow morning and find out that our military went with this idea and see what happens. Every one of our enemies will immediately take advantage of the situation and we will be the new 3rd world country.

Like it or not, our military will follow the order.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by Bunch
 


Fair enough, and thank you.

I believe in 99% of what your are saying also. The point that I'm really trying to make is that with everything going on right now, it's too hard to tell what the truth really is. The main thing I'm really peeved about is how we're losing our freedoms/rights when that is supposedly what we're fighting for.

And it also really bothers me that someone in a position such a Alan Greenspan comes out and says the war was mainly about oil and not fighting terrorism. Thousands of Americans and an estimated 1.2 million Iraqis might have died for someone else's greed. If we could bring them back, would they all say that it was worth it after hearing things like that?

It saddens me to realize how true Stalin's quote really is I guess:

"The death of one man is a tragedy, the deaths of a million is a statistic."

So to me, to be causing so many to die supposedly for something that we're losing anyway just seems like a joke. A very, very unfunny one.

And thanks again. I get a little carried away too sometimes.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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It is nice that all on this website can sit and debate the issues that will define the future of the planet. However, Iran is a menace to the planet since 1979. Fact............

They have sworn to kill Isreal and the US. They are actively seeking nukes.

Bowman is a traitor and should be executed immediately. Put him on a light armor hummer and drive him down the road in Iraq. Let those Iranian explosives set him free of his ignorance.

Bush should attack Iran, immediately. He should have done it 4 years ago.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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I just read the letter Col. Bowman wrote and I have to say, I agree with just about every word he put in it. This guy is a true Patriot of America. Tried and True. Recognize when you need to reevaluate the course and not be blinded by Pride and Ignorance. Support you Country, your Troops, and your Constitution, not the Few who are trying to destroy it.




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:00 PM
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This might interest you semper if you would actually read it as opposed to dismissing it out of hand.

www.pinr.com...



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by spyder207
 


Yes, I believe that they will follow also, but can you say that you actually like seeing in only black and white? Willing to give your life for something that might not be anything more than lining someone's pockets with gold?

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 



Any true combat vet, especially a Marine understands combat is black and white, follow orders in an instant, hesitate and die.

The US will not initiate a nuke attack, but will attack to stop one. How close to a nuke trigger does an insane islamo-facist need to get?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by spyder207
 


Yes, I believe that they will follow also, but can you say that you actually like seeing in only black and white?


No I can't say that I like it, probably because I see in color. I also have a strong belief in a few other things that may shock you, honor, integrity, honesty, etc. These men and women took an oath and there is no debating that issue. The oath requires that they carry out the orders given to them.

Regardless of your opinion I would ask that you refrain from making snide comments directed towards me. I will not judge you for your opinions do not judge me for being a man of my word and following through on my commitments.

I see you added to your response; keep in mind the soldier doesn't choose who is in charge.



[edit on 17-9-2007 by spyder207]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by grover
War, and all military actions are nothing more than a failure of diplomacy and reason... not noble... not heroic... not honorable.... bloodshed represents nothing less than failure.
[edit on 17-9-2007 by grover]


On one side of the equation, yes. On the other side, war is the triumph of greed and ambition.


Originally posted by semperfortis
I was not intending on raising your ire, I was being completely truthful in my statement that I have lost no freedoms...

Perhaps you have, if so, I am sorry

I just have not

Just an observation

Semper



Are you really so foolish as to believe that one citizen can loose a right, but that another may keep it? You may not have experienced the manifestation of your loss of rights yet, but if you see it happen to another, you can be sure that it's only a matter of time and opportunity that has protected you thus far. Perhaps you think that your obedience to such tyranny will protect you, and it probably will, as long as you are willing to be a slave to such tyranny that is. Try saying no and see how free you are.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:42 PM
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Agree, he should be arrested and tried for conspiracy to commit treason...
There are certain topics that NO ONE should mess around with, this is most definitely one of them. The military is obliged to follow the chain of command and proper authority.


Let me finish this one;

“when an order is given to cut out a baby out of a woman’s womb and then fed to the dogs in front of the local population, such order should be carrier out with out questions, because terrorizing the local population is what saves American lives…” and so on. – Vietnam.



The US will not initiate a nuke attack, but will attack to stop one. How close to a nuke trigger does an insane islamo-facist need to get?


The real problem is that media continuously conditions American people to believe that enemies are everywhere ready to kill us, while in the real world, people just want to make a living and feed their families.

In such an environment of fear and paranoia, it’s to easy to give people “targets” by racist, stereotypical generalizations, and from that point such propaganda victims literally begin to fantasize about murdering perceived enemies, all for the sake of their own safety.

This fear is so deeply seated by the media, that some people literally dream of murder in their heads every day, all in order to protect them selves from non existent threat.

Statistically, United States has the highest gun related crime rate in the civilized world, with most of those crimes are HATE related, and not related to the usual robbery type assults.

When anybody is told every day to – “KIKLL KILL KILL! Protect your self, shoot first! KILL KILL KILL!” No wonder such issues as “chain of command” and “justified homicide” are nothing more then just another “point of view”…

Point in case, New Orleans…



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:44 PM
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Spyder if you are ordered by a superior to take action that contradicts a presidential order, where do you stand then? I am intrigued to know hypothetically in context of this thread.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:47 PM
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Bowman:

I contend that should some civilian order you to initiate a nuclear attack [] you are duty-bound to refuse that order.


I contend, if you are the man that refused to push the button, and you need a refuge...

I will hide you,

Sri Oracle



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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Another good book i must recommend .. When i was a kid this country was free. by G. Gordon liddy. he's the guy who went to jail for Nixon/Watergate. copyright is 2002 so its fairly up to date and paints a historical picture of the progressive loss of freedoms.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
He is a Traitor

Pure and simple

Semper

He's a traitor for trying to preserve the very thing that bush is destroying: Freedom? I don't consider him a traitor, simple fact is, if nothing is done that would be betrayal. Let's face it, America doesn't even want to be in war, but Bush wants that oil to badly to notice. If this country was ANYTHING like it used to be, Bush would have been impeached by now. and why not? They tried doing that to Clinton simply because he had an affair, so why not do it to a president who doesn't even care about his country enough to listen to his own people. I applaud that "traitor" for standing up.. God knows somebody has to end the chaos.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Shambles
Spyder if you are ordered by a superior to take action that contradicts a presidential order, where do you stand then? I am intrigued to know hypothetically in context of this thread.


Another reason I would not make a good soldier. Too many moral ambiguities in gun/soldier warfare. in a ship its a lot easier to determine the bad guys intentions and have direct access to the chain of command.




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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1. There will be no impeachments, I'm sorry to inform those of you who think it's so necessary. We have an election process next year wherein you are free to make your choice(s).

2. The military will continue to follow their orders. The day that the U.S. military refuses to obey orders will be the last day of America as a nation.

Bowman knows that he is on the edge with his comments. Advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S. government IS treason, and he is knocking on the door in my opinion. When I returned from Vietnam, the anti-war protestors spat on me, both literally and figuratively. I hope those fighting in Iraq or elsewhere are treated with a bit more respect. They have earned it.






[edit on 9/17/2007 by TheAvenger]



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