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Bowman Now Calls For Impeachment: Asks Military To Refuse Orders To Attack IRAN

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread303463/pg4#pid3525163]post
Yes it is, and that's why I'm so upset that the ideals on which we found this nation are being thrown out the window with GWB. We're losing our rights, and we can't do anything about it. The majority of Congress even admits that they did not read the Patriot Act before signing it into law. There are even pieces to the Act which Congress said no to before, but were "snuck" in.


Ya it's pretty scary, I agree. especially considering how effective the US military is. I mean, if the U.S. decided to take over the world, who could stop them? And with no civilian checks and balances, and a military that's willing to operate in the desert even when they know it's wrong...

shudder

I suppose if the U.S. did want to take over the world, their first stop would be to take control of the oil reserves right? Iraq first, then Iran. If they got control of those, be pretty much tits up for democracy everywhere.

Of course, they'd need the will of the people for a while and would probably make a big media show to convince the people of the need to attack, lke they did in Iraq, but after Iran, I don't think they'd be too concerned about the will of the people anymore. Do you?




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by jimjamjerry
 


Huh, it's not very often I run into someone who thinks like I do. What I mean by that is that you look at a possible motive, and then figure out what YOU would do to get that. And it's just plain scary when everything fits so nicely.

And you're right, all someone would need is a troop of soldiers willing to do whatever they're told without question...

STARRED!

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by forestlady
 


Good post Forestlady .

We're already in a illeagal war with Iraq. And with Bowman asking the troops not to comply with orders to attack Iran. Bowman is a retired military brass. I would think the military would listen to him since he is a officer.

I don't think they would be charged with treason and why would they go after their families? That would be something a coward would do. That would only rile up the citizens up more.

Our troops are already thinned out to the max. Attacking Iran is a hugh mistake.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by jimjamjerry
 


Huh, it's not very often I run into someone who thinks like I do. What I mean by that is that you look at a possible motive, and then figure out what YOU would do to get that. And it's just plain scary when everything fits so nicely.

And you're right, all someone would need is a troop of soldiers willing to do whatever they're told without question...

STARRED!

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bigbert81]


which brings me to CNN. It strikes me that the media's true purpose right now is not to convince the American people so much as to convince the military leaders. We already know that the current administration doesn't give a flying boink about what the people say. But they still have to convince the military because if they don't do that, they can't carry out their objectives.

CNN and FOX are just putting on a show, just detailed enough to justify the orders from above. They provide the justification, the context, that allows the military to "follow orders" without question.

Personally, I think the U.S. military machine would flatly refuse to follow the orders of anyone who said, without justification, drop the bomb. I imagine without 9-11, there isn't a military leader in America who would have obeyed the overt, global order to attack. It would have been seen as the nonsense that it was.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by jimjamjerry

Personally, I think the U.S. military machine would flatly refuse to follow the orders of anyone who said, without justification, drop the bomb. I imagine without 9-11, there isn't a military leader in America who would have obeyed the overt, global order to attack. It would have been seen as the nonsense that it was.



it's also interesting how members of the military seem to view people who question the authority of the president as treasonous. how the heck did that happen.

If I was in power I would think after Iran, the next step would be to drop a nuclear bomb on some minor American city. Blame it on the Taliban and then institute martial law. The military is already primed to view people who object to the war as traitorous. wouldn't be hard to convince the military leaders to start giving the orders to "round em up" under those conditions



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by jimjamjerry
 


Yes, you definitely cannot get all of your knowledge from the news. Fox has already gotten into trouble for fabricating some, and it is extremely biased and directive. Why do we hear more about Paris Hilton than about the NAU? It's the people who believe everything on the news that believe there were no underlying motives behind 9/11 and none currently than "fighting for our freedom" or "fighting against terrorism".

Islam may be a violent religion, but I think so far, we are causing more terrorism in the world than them. 1.2 million civilians killed in the "fight against terrorism", and a loss of several of our Constitutional rights in the "fight for freedom".



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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If I was in power I would think after Iran, the next step would be to drop a nuclear bomb on some minor American city. Blame it on the Taliban and then institute martial law. The military is already primed to view people who object to the war as traitorous. wouldn't be hard to convince the military leaders to start giving the orders to "round em up" under those conditions



Exactly what I would do too. And what else is, I would do it before the next Presidential election so that I could remain President, or I could keep the same puppet as the President.

Scary how much we are thinking alike on this.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
.................
Of course not, choosing to file for a relieve of duty due to personal objection is completely legitimate and acceptable. However taking active measures to disrupt and go against the chain of command and higher authority is treason and illegal. Although I will admit the first point is not as cut and dry as I would like...
.........


Good explanation, but those who want to use this as an excuse for their own political agendas won't see it that way even if it makes perfect sense.

All these calls for "an impeachement and for open rebellion" only show the fact that these tactics are coming from a minority that are desperate for their own propaganda/agenda to be spread out in any way.

Calling for an open rebellion now because of the difference of opinion from a minority is not "patriotic"....

I also have to wonder what in the world is it with all this talk about "the U.S. nuking Iran". The U.S. doesn't need to "nuke Iran". We have the capabilities, alongside with some of our allies, to attack any factories, bunkers, underground facilities where the Iranian regime are conducting work on nuclear weapons without "dropping a nuclear bomb".

There is another thread in these same forums where it is being discussed the fact that France is calling for tougher actions against Iran, including going to war with the Iranian regime.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Perhaps all members of these boards should remember the above thread a few months to a few years down the road before they start to claim months or years from now that "the U.S. took the world into a war with Iran through lies". Like so many have tried to do with the Iraqi war.

Bowman is not "patriotic", he is just an "opurtunistic politician" who is trying to run for U.S. president, as he did back in 2000.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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It is absolutely traitorous. There is no other word for it. Stop a minute and think about what some of you are saying. You are ASKING for a military coup. That is just mind boggling.

The caveat for following orders is that I will obey all legal orders. LEGAL. Regardless of what you think of Iraq (or potentially Iran) attacking the enemy is a legal order.

Executing people isn't, which is why there are military tribunals. We are one of the few societies that has that. Do you think that Sadaam punished the military officers that he had handcuffing political prisoners and throwing them off of a 4th story roof?

And here we make a big deal about the "atrocities" of Abu Ghraib". It saddens me to see how much peoples personal opinions of the government overcomes their common sense and reasoning.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Marid Audran
 


Killing millions for oil might be legal, but moral? ethical? There has to be a line drawn where military personnel realize that what they're doing is wrong. It is your type of mentality why the gov't CAN become a fascist dictatorship and there's nothing anybody can do about it.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by thedigirati
 


Unproven conspiracies aside, the fact is most of you guys need to accept that the voters elected this guy.


2004 vote irregularities by state

rollingstones coverage

scientific evidence

The man was not elected by the people, therefore his orders and not legal and do not have to be followed.

Thats from a cursory search. It was not "unproven" at all, it was/is a fact.

bunch you should really look into some research and not go by what the MSM tells you.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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Killing millions for oil might be legal,



I would still like to see the PROOF of this allegation...

Is it the 80 dollar a barrel we are paying? nope that makes no sense

Is it the free oil we are getting from Iraq? nope, there is none

There is no proof

It is simply a liberal by-line without a shred of proof that is used to inflame others about the war and the current conflict.

This comment is exactly like the comment "Illegal War"

The "War" was voted on and approved by Congress, who had the same information as the President; therefor legal.

You may not like the war and that is fine, that does not however make it illegal

Some of you should take note of the limited number of people that come on threads like this anymore...

It's partly due to us having to repeat the some old clarifications when a poster continues to quote a mantra that is patently false

Disagreeing with the conflict or originally the war is everyones right and supported by everyone I know. Feeling the need to make up things to support this, is foolhardy and detrimental to a good discussion

Just my thoughts

Semper



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:22 PM
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You know i just read this entire thread and no one mentions the scandals we've had in the jail in the Middle east- the abuse, the pictures, the torture, etc.
That being said, I think the mindset of our military is such that they DO blindly follow orders (just look back at all the abuse in the jails).....If they are programmed, and capable of doing such monstrosities, i think we are safe thinking that the vast majority will follow blindly any orders from Bush or their commanders.

Semper, my friend, dont worry. Our boys are tired, they're commiting suicide, they want to go home and if the order comes, i beleive they will follow it....as i said they are ready to go home...either home will be ok with them. Their "real" earthly homes, or heaven.

I think they've had enough.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by thedigirati
.....
The man was not elected by the people, therefore his orders and not legal and do not have to be followed.

Thats from a cursory search. It was not "unproven" at all, it was/is a fact.

bunch you should really look into some research and not go by what the MSM tells you.


Yes he was elected by American citizens. Election fraud is nothing new and it has been happening ever since there have been elections. But some try to make it sound as if it was something new.

Just like you find all sorts of people in all walks of life, when it comes to elections you will find all sorts of people too. It doesn't mean the entire elections were a fraud, "despite the claims of the minority".


[edit on 17-9-2007 by Yadhel]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Because of a recent thread I commented on, I decided to take a count..

I currently correspond with 6 friends and 12 "PenPals" that are in Iraq...

Out of those 18, 8 are on their second tour and 3 on the third volunteer...

They comprise 2 divisions and 4 Battalions

They are NOT wanting us to surrender

They are NOT committing suicide

They will follow orders if we, the American People surrender

Semper



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis

Killing millions for oil might be legal,



I would still like to see the PROOF of this allegation...

Semper


so would I. Personally, I'm with you. Killing for oil is not only immoral and unethical, it's illegal, not legal



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Oh the Election fraud...

YIPPEEEEE!!!!

That is truly one of my favorites...

They spout that mantra like the dems were not defrauding just as fast as the reps...

HILARIOUS

It does suck to lose, especially when you cheat and also LOSE

Semper



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
Because of a recent thread I commented on, I decided to take a count..

I currently correspond with 6 friends and 12 "PenPals" that are in Iraq...



this hardly qualifies as an unbiased sample.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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Oh I agree

But then neither does the comments that they are ALL against what they are doing...Or committing suicide

At least I have a first hand sample t draw from and not what I am hearing on CNN, MSNBC or FOX

It is amazing what one can find out if one looks hard enough and wants the truth and not what the media wants to tell you..

It has been long established that HORROR sells and the news media is selling....

Semper



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis

Killing millions for oil might be legal,


Disagreeing with the conflict or originally the war is everyones right and supported by everyone I know. Feeling the need to make up things to support this, is foolhardy and detrimental to a good discussion

Just my thoughts

Semper


that's now what you said earlier. earlier you said that people who didn't agree with the war were traitors, pure and simple (your words)


Originally posted by semperfortis
He is a Traitor

Pure and simple

Semper




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