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UK Gas guzzlers may be hit with £2,000 purchase tax

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:07 AM
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Yet more idiocy from people completely out of touch with reality.
Each and every time the latest / current transport minister comes out with more ways to screw the motorist, they do so without offering any alternative.
If they were truly concerned with reducing the number of vehicles on the roads and major town / city centres, they'd look at alternatives, not just revenue generation.
If I could use public to get into town and back again cheaply and easily I'd probably do so. However, only the money making routes are operated so I have to use my car. I still believe a nationalised nationwide public transport system could work, as long as it's not run to make huge profits for someone - which is why it was all sold off and privatised in the first place.

Also, will we now see members of the government driving, or being driven, in fuel efficient low emission vehicles? Will we see them lose their expensed fuel?
I have to pay for my own fuel to get to my place of work, so should they. Having seen how much some MP's have been claiming in fuel expenses each year, it certainly looks like they are driving some real gas guzzlers themselves




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by doctorlove
2000 for rich people is like a drop in the bucket it wont stop people from driving big suv's. they just have to stop making them!


No but it means anyone on a lower income can never aspire to get a half decent car



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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How does this tax go anywhere to cutting emissions-as people have said already,all this does is give the govenrment more money(which I do not believe they will put into anything that will help the planet).
And yes,it stops poorer people from being able to get a decent car.So they buy older cars which by definition give out higher emissions.
No positive effect there.

Another point-I am sure many will disagree with me here but,what the hell difference would it make in environmental terms if a tiny insignificant island such as Britain suddenly switched to say,hydrogen fuel?

Answer-absolutley naff all difference...now maybe if China/USA/Russia did the same it would help a great deal.But we are too small to have any noticable effect on world environment by "going green" in all our cars.

Why is it up to Britain to set an example to these bigger,more significant polluters?

This tax is yet another scam to make the masses believe the goverment are doing something in our best interests,when in fact all they are doing is lining their own pockets to the detriment of the average person.

And,just like the scam that is "carbon offsetting"-It has NO EFFECT on the environment,only on bank balances.

BTW,does anyone know the threshold for this proposed 2K tax?
What engine sizes are we talking about here?

edit SP

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Silcone Synapse]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
No but it means anyone on a lower income can never aspire to get a half decent car

Why does gas guzzler = better?

The majority of car owners don't use their vehicles for utility purposes. They are conveniences. They don't need them to be fast, or powerful. They just want the big engines because they are status symbols.

There are plenty of efficient cars on the market that preform just fine for your typical urban family or average Joe commuter. You don't need a V8 to do your shopping. You don't need it to drive the kids to school. Sure, it might help you pick up chicks, but that's because we live in a shallow and warped society.

God forbid that young males will have to start winning the hearts of the ladies through their wit and charm!


Really, aside from the Rural residents and commercial purposes, there is NO need for gas guzzlers in our modern society!

reply to post by Silcone Synapse
 

It's not about cutting emissions directly, it's about helping people get over years of marketing by car manufactures and the oil industry telling them that a big engine makes up for a short... um, *stature*.

It's a dissuading the unthinking masses from making poor choices.
I'd rather see them subsidize fuel efficient (or better yet, electric) cars, but they'd have to get that money from someplace and you know what happens when the government needs money for something.
Yup... more taxes!

IMHO, it's a step in the right direction.
Not a leap or a bound, but a step none the less.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by BitRaiser]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:09 AM
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Is global warming proven 100%? I'm not sure, therefore if its not, then I don't know if its right to give out all these rules?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:39 AM
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OP by bitraiser
"It's not about cutting emissions directly, it's about helping people get over years of marketing by car manufactures and the oil industry telling them that a big engine makes up for a short... um, *stature*.

It's a dissuading the unthinking masses from making poor choices.
I'd rather see them subsidize fuel efficient (or better yet, electric) cars, but they'd have to get that money from someplace and you know what happens when the government needs money for something.
Yup... more taxes!

IMHO, it's a step in the right direction.
Not a leap or a bound, but a step none the less. "


I would agree that this could be a step in the right direction-If I believed that the Government would put the money into something worthwhile-like subsidizing Hydrogen/electric vehicles for working class families.
Realistically though,it will be spent on war,motorways and bank loans...

I just find it hard to jump on board this bandwagon the gov is telling all to when the bigger countries are causing the bulk of the problem.
Don't get me wrong-I consider myself to be "greenish"-and have been doing things like recycling,composting, for about a decade before it became fashionable.
And I shall continue to do so-However,the government give me no credit for this at all,and know they want to tax everything they possibly can in order to make people think they are actually doing something.
Remember how long the governments of the world resisted the idea of climate change,because they believed that they would lose money if they had to clean up the polluters--well now they believe they have worked out a framework where they can screw more taxes outta everyone and make the masses believe that they are cleaning up through scams such as "carbon offsetting/neutrality"-which does nothing for the planet but lots for the companies bank balances.
All they have to do is make people feel guilty and force more taxes upon us-while at the same time they do nothing for the environment.
For example,in the UK our emissions have gone up since we started all this carbon trading crap.I guess the USA is in the same position.
Thats proof enough for me that this is a total scam.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:28 AM
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I also have a VW T4 van that I run on Veg oil



Interesting... don't let the customs & excise people hear that. It is illegal to use anything other than DERV (Diesel Engine Road Vehicle) fuel - with a blue dye. Of course you can run a diesel on pretty much any oil (castor, vegetable, heating oil or the farmers favorite the untaxed red dye diesel that they can run their tractors on)

As for taxation, I think this needs to be a mixed bag. Firstly you are correct when you say that you pay enough for your current cars (I wonder how our American friends would like to pay for petrol in Britain?).

This should be no-way retrospectively applied but to be fair they already do it in a way. Do they still give out cheaper road tax to very small engined cars? If so you are already getting taxed more for your 'gas-guzzler'. There is little you can do to make your car more economical (LPG is just cheaper) but there is a lot that car makers can do to make their new cars more economical. With this in mind, I think a tax is fair and reasonable as the 'market' will decide. Push your product up market and say 'sod the tax' - rich people will still buy it. Make your product more economical / efficient and make it more competitively priced to those who don't.


apc

posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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Again the true nature of the Global Warming Socialist Agenda is revealed.

"The people are incapable of making decisions for themselves, so we must make their freedom so painful they have no choice but to submit to our wishes."

The UK "green" tax is already running in a massive surplus, as is intended.

Instead of jacking up the price of completely legal vehicles they don't like, they should be offering substantial incentives for purchase of the vehicles they do like.

They're making gas-guzzlers out to be like cigarettes. They hate them, they want to do everything they possibly can to make their users uncomfortable, but they don't dare make them illegal and lose the bloated tax revenue.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by apc]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by apc
Again the true nature of the Global Warming Socialist Agenda is revealed.


It's hardly a socialist agenda. If anything it's a purely capitalist agenda to screw more money from the general public to line other peoples pockets.
Socialism (not communism or what is often mistaken for socialism) is not about controlling people so much as making them responsible for the good of the community, whereas capitalism is all about instilling an "I'm alright Jack" attitude and having people willing to sell their granny to make a buck. It's also about milking the taxpayers for as much as possible to the point where we are not much more than indentured slaves to the corporate and banking community


apc

posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:28 AM
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Milking the consumer is Capitalism.

Milking the taxpayer is Socialism.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:45 AM
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Even if you ignore the idea of global warming, there's only so much oil left. Unless of course that's a conspiracy too.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bobafett]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:59 AM
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We have the opportunity every 5 years to exercise our opinions on the policies of the Government. It look depends if this is a big enough issue for you to decide how to cast your vote and I guess in the grand scheme of things, most people have more pressing priorities.

We pay enough tax to own and drive cars in the UK, I would be happy to pay more if this money was ring fenced to fund greater public transport and to offer incentives to buy more fuel efficent cars, but this money is used to fund the health service and education.

I travel from the country to London most days, that is where my office is, and using public transport is not an option so I must have car. I do a load of motorway miles and WANT a car that can get me out of trouble. Smaller engines cars just do not accelarate quickly. I will stick with my 3.2 engined car.

And what about all the Government cars, I do not see Government ministers buying the most fuel efficent cars on the marketplace for offcial use. Again this is a minister suggesting that we continue to pay more for the pleasure of driving on roads which a element of our taxes has already paid for.

We have a choice at the next elections. We can either sent all these wackos off the gravey train or just re-elect them and continue to moan about the every increasing taxes.

Anyone want to take some bets on the outcome.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Freedom ERP
 


Very good points about the government cars. Remember the media fury over "two jags", or Dave's bicycle (with car behind carrying his boxes)?

[edit on 17-9-2007 by bobafett]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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"They're making gas-guzzlers out to be like cigarettes."

Well said Apc,thats indeed what it feels like to me...They loved it when everyone smoked because they knew a lot of smokers would die before they had to give them a pension.
Now some of their advisers have convinced them that they would make more money from a non smoking healthy workforce-so the smokers are demonised.

BTW does anyone know the engine size the government is calling "gas guzzlers"-
Its just that I am about to get a Golf TDI 1.9 litre..would that count as a guzzler?

Hehe-I know you guys in the states have lawn mowers with bigger engines,but the way the road tax works here so far,cars over 1.4L pay the higher tax band.

What engine size would be considered a "gas guzzler" in America?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by EJHoover


I also have a VW T4 van that I run on Veg oil



Interesting... don't let the customs & excise people hear that. It is illegal to use anything other than DERV (Diesel Engine Road Vehicle) fuel - with a blue dye. Of course you can run a diesel on pretty much any oil (castor, vegetable, heating oil or the farmers favorite the untaxed red dye diesel that they can run their tractors on)


Actually if you check on the Customs & Excise website you will see that as from 01 July people are allowed to use up to 2500 Litres of Veg Oil per year without duty

And Ive never seen diesel with a blue dye at all. The Diesel sold at my local tesco's is a yellowish colour.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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Do you run on straight veg oil or the processed bio fuel Chorlton?

I know someone who tops up with straight,kind of a 50 50 mix with regular diesel,and hes had no probs so far.
Think hes got a fuel line heater thingy-heat exchanger(?).



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Silcone Synapse
 

I use straight Veg Oil bought from Bookers in 20 Litre Cans for £9.99
Im running about a 70% mix at the mo, but will drop it slowly to more diesel as the temperature cools down.
Im not keen on bunging in a heater system but a friend ran his T4 over last winter on a 20% Veg oil mix



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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Man,thats a big saving.
Good to hear you know about what to do when it gets colder

Think thats pretty much all you have to worry about I rek.
Good way to not pay the oil companies quite so much too.
Well played.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:54 PM
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I do not care what the cause is I am against taxes being applied to everything so that the corrupt governments of the world can waste and pocket more money. Taxes are how kings fleece the peasants.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser

I jest, but seriously the only way that electric and other low-environment impact vehicles will ever be adopted by the public at large is to make them more cost effective. The price of hybrids and the like are coming down, but I see much in the way of gain by helping the situation by making gas guzzlers more expensive.

Also, you simply don't need these wasteful vehicles. There's no possible argument for Joe Urban to need some of these monsters I see on the streets.


i dont see it as they need to be adopted by the public, the public in my opinion really doesnt care as long as the vehicle still has the same capability's i see it as the industry trying to get the most bang for it's buck from the public.



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