Bush setting America up for war with Iran

reply to post by Project_Silo


Yes. Right now it seems to be a lot of convenient "leaks" that tell the other governments that stuff is serious, but I don't think any one will act on it. If this war starts, it could mean the end of the world. It would get REAL UGLY REAL FAST. Both sides are FULLY aware of the stakes.

Now lets just hope no one does anything stupid...

See thats the thing.If there really is a NWO then what the hell why not?They will all be bunkered and sheltered and get their depopulation and easily control the survivors.

Also I'm afraid Israel holds much power over us,and they don't feel safe so....Also I don't put it past us to take the chance and see if they will really retaliate.Maybe we have a plan to immediatly stop all action if they jump in?Or maybe all this has been discussed and it's time for the real cold war #2 and even more money making.

I just can't get as hopefull as you I guess heh.But you are 100% right it's surely not worth it.But it's not a guarentee that Russia and China will join.Also what does the NWO stand to gain even if they do join, a lot

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Just for the record, let's be clear... there is NO evidence that Iran is guilty of any crime.

You mean besides sending men, money and military arms into Iraq to kill the allied forces. Also, I guess the leader of Iran saying he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map means nothing in your eyes.

So where's the proof?

They keep saying they have proof, but they never show it.
None of it.
Ever.

At least with Iraq's WMDs, the had those (ridiculous) drawings of mobile chemical weapon's factories and (totally laughable) satellite pictures (of firetrucks).

They claim that Iranian weapons are being used, yet there are tones of Iranian weapons throughout Iraq left over from the war. They say there are Iranian trained insurgents crossing the boarder, yet Iran has been shelling insurgent forces (PKK) themselves. Why would they attack insurgents within Iraq if they are trying to arm/train them?

Iran and Turkey have both been complaining that rebel groups are using destabilized Iraq as a place to hide, slipping into their countries to carry out operations, then running back it Iraq (where Turkish and Iranian forces cannot go, despite standing offers to assist in counter-insurgency).

Consider that the sources of information that you have. Fox? CNN? The Military arm of the Bush Administration? All these agencies are known to lie to the American public.

Think about the facts.
Apply a little logic.

The official line falls apart faster than the Constitution in the hands of the Neo-Cons.

reply to post by BitRaiser


I have seen photos and a video and documents on Iranian Revoutionary Guard activity in Iraq.The video is of Iranian missiles being fired at a U.S base.

A quick google search would do the trick.Although I don't believe at this point a war with Iran for any reason other than they are making nukes.Its to risky.I think they will do it anyway though so we shall see.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
I have seen photos and a video and documents on Iranian Revoutionary Guard activity in Iraq.The video is of Iranian missiles being fired at a U.S base.

So if an Iranian missile is fired, it must be a Revoultionary Guardsman that fired it?

Golly, there's a whole lot of American insurrectionists in Iraq!

There are a lot more American weapons being used against American forces than there are Iranian ones. After all, Saddam was backed by the US and Iraq was outfitted heavily with US weapons.

As I mentioned above, there were also a lot of Iranian weapons captured and sold on the blackmarket during the Iran/Iraq war.

Video of missiles being fired does not constitute proof.
Proof would be infiltrating and documenting a Iran-Inserectionist weapons exchange.

A quick google search would do the trick.

I'm not finding any proof via google.
A couple pics of weapons, a few videos, and some wild claims that no critical mind should accept on face value, but NOTHING in the way of proof.

Although I don't believe at this point a war with Iran for any reason other than they are making nukes.Its to risky.I think they will do it anyway though so we shall see.

*sigh*
This again.
Educate yourself: Understanding the Iran Dis-Info Campaign
Did you learn nothing from "Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
You are being manipulated!
There is NO proof that Iran is building nuclear weapons.
They have violated NO article of the NPT.
The IAEA has filed NO complaint against them, including no complaint associated with restricted inspections.

Why are you so willing to condemn Iran as being guilty without any proof?

reply to post by BitRaiser


Lol if your not willing to look then why conversate with you.There is plenty of evidence man.news reports along wth captured documents.Video of Iranian Missiles being fired at a U.S. base,does not matter if they are Iranian soldiers or not.

The proof is there if you look,otherwise you live in a small world man.Don't give me the propaganda garbage,there is REAl proof out there.So go find it.

And your link does nto prove anything.Oh boy iran put on a good face for the world and offered to train Iraqis.It's called politics.Also obviously we would not let them do that because those troops or cops sure would not be corrupt ehh.Also Hezzbollah is funded and was created by Iran.Hezzbollah does not do many if any terrorist attacks in Iraq that I know of,but they often do agaisnt Israel.And we all know we are Israels saviour.

The fact is the proof is there,but I'm not going to go get it for you,especially with your attitude.You tell me to educate myself, yet you refuse to look at the other side of the story......How can you be truly educated if you don't know both sides?


[edit on 18-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

The way a rational discussion works is I present my evidence, you present yours.

I did take a look. I didn't find anything convincing.
If you've found something convincing, it's up to you to present it.
I put some effort into putting together my arguments, you could at least dig up one of these many links you have.


It's not up to me to make your arguments for you.

reply to post by BitRaiser


No but it surely is up to you to do your own research before you so eagerly discredit things.I'm gonna go get links for you brb.



www.foxnews.com...

"Smoking Gun"

Iranian forces helped plan one of the most sophisticated militant assaults of the Iraq war

U.S. envoy: Iran Revolutionary Guards Quds Force director detained

It's also been rumored for some time now that Muqtada Al Sadr and his Mehdi army are being supported by Iran.Funny how when the U.S. got on his tail he fled to Iran.Sigh.

Also don't forget Iran Kidnapped 15 British troops

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

Ok...

The video I find far from convincing. As I said, there are a lot of left over toys from the Iran Iraq war. How do we know these rockets weren't purchased on the black market? Or were stolen? Or that the video is a complete fabrication?

The first 3 articles you linked are all from Murdoch owned news sources... and considering that Cheney ordered them to "sell war with Iran" to the American people, I find them to be highly suspect right off. Further, they all make claims, but none of the "evidence" they mention has been presented to the public. If there were captured documents, why haven't they shown them? It would have made for much better press.

The fourth article looks like pure propaganda to me. It's all about how evil Iran is. I'm going to stop short of calling it a hate site, but that's only because I'm feeling charitable.

Boarder skipping is always a common practice. US forces couldn't enter Iran without risking (premature) war. I'm willing to bet that when these guys see Iranian Troops, they run into Iraq for the same reasons.

The "Standoff In The Persian Gulf" had nothing to do with arming rebels. It resolved peacefully and civilly with the sailors all being treated rather well.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by BitRaiser]

Lol I give up.Even though you can google everything I linked and find 9 million other sources saying the same thing.You obviously are not willing to sway from your opinion.

Obviously capturing British soldiers have nothing to do with arming militias.It shows irans mentality.Oh wait you must have missed the dozen times Ahmadinejad says Isreal needs to be wiped off the map.Must be more propaganda.

Yes we get BS news all the time,but you are taking it to far.You won't believe anything even though it is pretty well known fact.I have heard so many generals talk about Iran in Iraq,and every member of our goverment,and the Iraqi goverment.And even Iran said they are just waiting for us to pull out so they can take it over.Or is that more propaganda also?



Ok now I really am done so don't expect anymore response.I think we highjacked this thread enough,and I provided the proof yet you will not sway whatsoever form your side no matter what evidence your faced with.It is commen knowledge Ahmadinejad is not our friend,or a very nice guy.It's nice to see you buy into iranian propaganda so very hardcore yet say absolutely everything from the U.S or anyone else in the world is propaganda.

Hell even a video and article to go with it and you deny it.What the hell do you expect from me?Want me to personally go get some Iranians from Iraq and bring them to your house and have them show you their IDs?


[edit on 18-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

No, I made reasonable arguments that poke holes in all the "evidence" you presented.

As I said, I did my own search. I found nothing that was convincing.
Nothing has come out that cannot surpass "reasonable doubt", thus there simply is no proof.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

reply to post by Project_Silo


Yes, Iran would want to take advantage of a weak military defence and political leadership in Iraq, once the outside coalition forces are outside once again.

I think if a war or major attack on Iranian nuclear sites does happen anytime - soon, Iran will have other things on it's mind, putting Iraq on the back burner and giving the new Iraq Military and Political structure time to gel.

Dallas

reply to post by Dallas


I never really thought about that.A war with Iran would actually help stabalize Iraq,very interesting indeed.One negative coming to mind right away though would be Iranian/Syrian missiles and art and so on being fired at Iraq and Israel.

Do you think we can get most of Irans missiles and defend from Syrians missiles and art and jets.I know we will stop most missiles but thats gonna be one busy busy period of time.Now that I think about it do you think the Iraqi poeple would get more pissed because now the Americans are also causing or provoked the bombardment of Iraq?Definitally something to think about.

A war with Iran would actually help stabalize Iraq,very interesting indeed

can you explain this to me please?

how can a war with iran stabilize iraq ??


thats the first time that i hear this

sodom

reply to post by sodom

I think if a war or major attack on Iranian nuclear sites does happen anytime - soon, Iran will have other things on it's mind, putting Iraq on the back burner and giving the new Iraq Military and Political structure time to gel.

Thats a valid point that deserves a thought I'd say.

What I got from it is there will be no iranian influence then because Iran will be busy with us.Read my post I second guess that in second part.

I don't think the Iranian elements that are in Iraq right now is enough to make that big of a difference.Another words if we did attack Iran and they left things wouldn't change much.That is if they don't just stay and do more bombings more often to help their country.



[edit on 18-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

It took time to track it down, but here's Ret Army Gen. John Abizaid said during an interview with Associated Press on the 11th re Iran nuclear stuff and the timing of the US Military leaving Iraq.

Gen. John Abizaid Speaks:
AP "It will take three to five years before Iraq's government is stable enough to operate on its own, according to the former commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, who said the surge of American forces has not solved the country's broader problems..."

hosted.ap.org...

Dallas

reply to post by Dallas


That article makes me think about a idea my bro said to me.

If we pull out say 30,000 troops at a time and withdraw all withen 1 year.Then surely the Iraqi poeple would get sick of fighting eachother so viciously.

But if we do that will the terrorist then just multiply the car bombings.Or would the Iraqi poeple ban together and fight the terrorists themselves?