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Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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More about that North Korean shipment of "cement".

N Korean ship 'linked to Israel's strike on Syria'


A suspicious North Korean freighter that re-flagged itself as South Korean before off-loading an unknown cargo at the Syrian port of Tartous is at the centre of efforts today to investigate Israel's recent airstrike on Syria.

Israel has not given any details on the operation in Syria
An Israeli on-line data analyst, Ronen Solomon, found an internet trace for the 1,700-tonne cargo ship, Al Hamed, which showed the vessel started to off-load what Syrian officials categorised as "cement" on Sept 3.

Since leaving Tartous, one of Syria's main ports on the Mediterranean, the ship's trace has disappeared and it is not known whether western intelligence agencies are tracking the vessel.


Exit question: Is it common to ship cement all the way from N. Korea?




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by makeitso
 


Oh of course it was just cement.There is no way that every website except a select few that have extremely legitimate personal reasons to lie would say it was nuclear material.

I don't get why some poeple are over analyzing this so much.OBVIOUSLY Syria has immense personal motives for saying it was not nuclear material.Yet every other source says it was in fact nuclear materials.

Hell why do you think the goverment has not admitted 911,its just a dumb ass move.Why admit to nuclear involvement?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Djarums
reply to post by paul76
 



Ha I didn't know that...Yeah Israel are very efficient indeed..But surely her enemies are getting shrewder and wiser to Israels tactics.

Staff edit to fix quote tags.

[edit on 9/17/2007 by Djarums]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by paul76
 


You'd think they would be... although being that the above happened 26 years ago and they're able to pull it off just as flawlessly now makes you wonder.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by JustMe74
 


thanks (just me 74) for setting me straight on the uss liberty.i'm sorry now that i said a thing about hearing that it was sunk for transmitting info about israels aircraft locations------sure wish i knew exactly what all the truth is so i wouldn't/couldn't bear false witness.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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I've been reading through several threads, and I'm confused about some of the news sources.
Several of these news sources seem like they're coming out of the basement of a 14 year old kid, because they seem to be nothing but sensationalist propoganda with very little thought or any shred of proof to back them up.


My questions are these:
Which news services beyond the mainstream are the most trustworthy?

When I'm reading one of these posts and I see the news source credited, which ones have shown a history of truth, and which ones have been proven to be BS?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 11:43 PM
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Everyday,we are getting closer and closer to WW3 fully being blown out. It was good that Isreal did what they did. It is going to a lot worse.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
.................
i do believe syria have complained to the UN about this illegal act.


You believing does not make it a fact...and the response from Syria so far has been that "they will be responding to this, but they have no comments on this issue", which makes it a truly interesting story, and the statements made in the original article the more convincing.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:51 AM
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I'm realizing what nobody is talking about.

Israel just walked right thru brand new Russian state of the art Pantsir-S1 air-defense systems that Syria paid almost $1 Billion for.


Oh, thats bad enough, but theres more to it than that.

Israel didn't just defeat Syria's Russian air defenses, oh no. They defeated the latest, greatest, supposedly un-jammable, Russian super air-defense while Russian experts were still onsite training Syria.
: Israel flew right in and out while Russia was operating the systems for Syria!


This makes the new system outdated before they even got all the units deployed, yes, and that was just for giggles. Making the Russians red faced. Thats priceless!

Also, since these units are being deployed to Iran, well, that means that Israel just whooped Syrian, Iranian, and Russian air defenses in one fell swoop!

Now why isn't that in the news?

[edit on 9/18/07 by makeitso]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by makeitso
 


I wondered about that too, state of the art syrian/russian air defences were outmatched by a 30 year old air frame with 20 year old electronics



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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This story doesn't stand up for me at all. There are to many inconsistencies and I wouldn't think it would be so easy for Israel to fly into Syria's airspace and blow up some nuclear technology and avoid state of the art technology with old Aeroplanes, give me a break if Israels enemies are this dumb she has nada to worry about.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Project_Silo

I don't get why some people are over analyzing this so much.OBVIOUSLY Syria has immense personal motives for saying it was not nuclear material.Yet every other source says it was in fact nuclear materials.


Sources so far have claimed multiple reasons, some times the same source/country has claimed more than one reason. Everything from retailiation and destruction of Iranian arms to a secret nuclear facility.

Here's some more from the Jerusalem Post:


Israel has declined to comment on the air operation. Syria has said only that warplanes entered its airspace, came under fire from anti-aircraft defenses, and dropped munitions and fuel tanks to lighten their loads while they fled.

A US government official has reportedly said Israeli warplanes hit weapons destined for Hizbullah guerrillas. But the former US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, told The Jreusalem post he believes the Israelis were hitting a nuclear facility.

"The strange thing is that the Americans are talking on behalf of Israel and are providing excuses and concocting new false spins such as talking about presumed Syrian nuclear activity and completely turning a blind eye about the Israeli nuclear danger," the Syrian editorial said.

JP


I'm avoiding making an assumption before the facts are clearly laid out. I recall a march to war over erroneous information that has cost America plenty. How soon we forget and beg for another one.

Personally that's not over analyzing it's simply refusing to jump to conclusions before understanding the situation. Actually when it comes to another possible war I would hope that would be more the rule rather than the exception.

So far the Israeli media, various foreign media outlets, and a few American officials has stated what they believed may happened. "MAY".

Israel has given no official word yet and I am sure they know why.
Let Israeli officials speak for themselves, they aren't children.

- Lee



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 05:28 PM
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Someone above me asked the question "is it common for N. Korea to ship cement to Syria"?

Nobody cared to reply, but I would go even further: Would N. Korea ship cement to anyone??? Is that a source of economic export for them?



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by mjmurphy53711
 


That is a very good question. I was wondering something along the same lines.

Is it just a case where they got caught switching flags before off loading, or is there some sort of due diligence that has an eye on all ships these days?

If a country, in this case N. Korea, is shipping "Cement" who knows about it?

I would think that if the FEDS are spying on all they are spying on, that nobody moves anything without them knowing it... I mean wasn't google able to get new images since Fosset's dissappearance? I would think that somewhere there is a satelittle viewing area where someone tracks and identifies every ship moving in certain areas... I guess what I am saying is that it would take a long time to get to Syria from N. Koreau by sea, and the ship would have to pass through certain areas of high traffic and scruitiny, right?

DocMoreau



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by mjmurphy53711
Nobody cared to reply, but I would go even further: Would N. Korea ship cement to anyone??? Is that a source of economic export for them?


Sources I looked up indicate that North Korea does indeed mine limestone (required for cement).

CIA World Factbook
US Department of State

Other sources indicate minerals to be among their main exports. I don't know whether cement is categorized under minerals though..

PBS.org
NAtional Economies Encyclopedia

The Dept. of State page does list "non-metal products", whatever that means.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Beachcoma]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 06:25 PM
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Israel is FINNALY stepping up to the plate. Notice how Iran cowards away. Where are your words now, Iran?



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by makeitso
I'm realizing what nobody is talking about.

Israel just walked right thru brand new Russian state of the art Pantsir-S1 air-defense systems that Syria paid almost $1 Billion for.


Oh, thats bad enough, but theres more to it than that.

Israel didn't just defeat Syria's Russian air defenses, oh no. They defeated the latest, greatest, supposedly un-jammable, Russian super air-defense while Russian experts were still onsite training Syria.
: Israel flew right in and out while Russia was operating the systems for Syria!


This makes the new system outdated before they even got all the units deployed, yes, and that was just for giggles. Making the Russians red faced. Thats priceless!

Also, since these units are being deployed to Iran, well, that means that Israel just whooped Syrian, Iranian, and Russian air defenses in one fell swoop!

Now why isn't that in the news?



That is assuming that any of the story is indeed true, that the Syrians have actually deployed the systems and even then, actually turned them on.

As you say, the Russians are there training the Syrians on how to operate them. It is entirely feasible in that case that those systems have yet to be delivered, let alone deployed, as training is currently ongoing.

For example, the RAF has been training on the Typhoon for some years now, but we only have a couple of operational squadrons. The F-22 is another example. Challenger 2 is another historical example.

New systems take a long time to become active from the time a deal is announced to actual full deployment. As far as I was aware, these systems are a new deal with Syria, so at best, they would probably not even have a single active Battery.

EDIT: The Syrians haven't taken delivery of a single Pantsir-S1 system yet. The deal was signed last year and the first delivery is not due until the END of 2008

You make huge assumptions in your post that have little bearing on reality.

SAM systems (or any complex equipment for that matter, be it civil or military) are NOT plug and play.....



[edit on 18/9/07 by stumason]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

EDIT: The Syrians haven't taken delivery of a single Pantsir-S1 system yet. The deal was signed last year and the first delivery is not due until the END of 2008

You make huge assumptions in your post that have little bearing on reality.


Hi Stu,

Nice to hear from you again.

As for reality, the units began arriving Aug. 2007.

The rest of your post? I agree with a little of it.
I'm just glad somebody's actually begun to talk about it.

Care to elaborate more about your reailty?

[edit on 9/18/07 by makeitso]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 07:51 PM
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Indeed, the 2008 date, on re inspection, is for Iran. My mistake


But, even so, if delivery was only in the past month, then I seriously doubt the Syrians have a single one active. That's what I mean by reality. Even from delivery to active service can be some length of time. You have to train the new units up, make sure you have the correct process in your command structure for using them, determine if there are any problems with the System, does it interfere with any existing equipment..so on and so forth.

For example, the British Army has had Bowman comms for some time, yet they are still in the process of bedding it into units and figuring out the quirks. My dad is currently training squaddies on it's use and it is far from perfect yet. There is the risk it may inadvertantly set off ammunition. This is being tested now.

Or take HMS Daring. Now, granted, a ship is a much bigger bit of kit than a SAM system, but the premise is the same. Delivered in 2006, but has to undergo 3 years of trials before she is declared fit for service. You'd think that the people building the thing would know if it worked, but apparently not.

Things very rarely work as advertised and it is usually some time from delivery before a new piece of kit can be declared fit for service.

1 month is barely enough time to get it out the box and to pop the bubble wrap.....



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 11:20 PM
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Thank you Stu,

I'm glad to see that you found out your date was incorrect. I suspect that you would now agree my statements are not, "huge assumptions with little bearing in reality", now that you know that.

I am partially inclined to agree with some of the idea's in your above post. For instance, it'll be quite some time before all the units are deployed, and Syria's systems are fully integrated.

However, just as your information about the delivery date was inaccurate, so it is with your idea of taking so long to get a few units up and running in key positions.

Have you ever see a kid open a new toy? With all the pressure on Syria, and the high cost, they raced to get a few in stratigic locations asap. In addition, its my understanding that some Syrian crews were briefed/pre-trained in Russia prior to delivery as SOP.

At any rate, it is possible that all 36 of these new super air defense sat in storage being assembled a month + after delivery, but I trust you can see its not very probable.

No, the probability is what I posted. There were some units in place and functional, specifically at the strategic areas that Israel hit. In fact, the probability is that part of their mission was to gather data and test jamming techniques, so they knew what their enemy had.

Why do you think Russia made the statement that they did? Because they lost face.

Why do you think it is that now that Israel has gathered that data, and knows that they can jam it, they are confidantly streching out their had in strength to Syria, saying; ok, now lets talk peace?



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