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Russian President Putin Wants NATO to Dissolve

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posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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God I wish people would stick to the story and facts instead of trying to inflate there fat ego's more than they already are...You know who are!! great post by the way...A little misleading but a interesting read. I have nothing to add as I have little understanding of Russia, although I do like Russia as country these days.

[edit on 16uSunday07/27/20 by paul76]




posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 11:33 AM
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Maybe Putin was referring to the North American and Western European clique and how they don't trust Russia and basically say hello and shake hands and then put cameras in their rooms? He didn't actually say NATO. I would assume if he wanted NATO dissolved, he would have outright said it. He isn't someone who cares much about controversy.

I would trust Russia over China anyday to tell you the truth at the moment. Though they are both undesirable bedfellows.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Your right and it's been mentioned in the beginning of this thread (me) and from others down the line, NATO is not in the article and I feel isn't implied by Putin, for now. Seems to me we are suppose to put the article headline in the headline field. But I'm happy just the same the article was posted.
I'm more inclined to think North American UNion and the agreements from Canada & Mexico to the the US proposal of placing interception weapons on their territories may be in Putin's thoughts when giving the interview.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas
I'm more inclined to think North American UNion and the agreements from Canada & Mexico to the the US proposal of placing interception weapons on their territories may be in Putin's thoughts when giving the interview.


Why would you think that?



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 12:21 PM
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The missile shield would mean Russia will have to spend billions in R&D to counter it. Then affective deployment may take years beyond that.
Additionally The US has, Russia may feel, a vehicle capable of flying between Mach 6 -- 9, if it's true Russia cannot stop an attack with known and speculative present day technology.

Russian Missle-Subs, well I'm sure there are others here who can answer that threat better than I. But I would suggest they are being tracked closely from the time they leave port.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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With the US mounting strategic missile defense systems around Russia's border, I can certainly see why Russia dislikes Nato at the moment.

To the Russians, Nato looks like an exclusive group designed to give it's member nations a stronger military position against non-Nato nations. Actually... if you really look at it, thats exactly what it is.
The US, backed by Nato, was defying arms treaties by placing these strategic military installations around Russia. Nato was simply allowing it to happen, and hence, Russia backed out of those treaties, and believes Nato to be a corrupt system. A far cry from what it was intended to be when it was founded.

If Canada were to start mounting SAM sites along the US border, I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't be very happy about that either. See where I'm going with this?

Basically, if you were in Putin's position, you'd be speaking out against Nato yourself.


The problem I see, is these organizations are always started with the best intentions in mind. Created to prevent a disastrous scenario from coming about again. However, the nations involved often become so interested in the benefits of the agreement, that they completely lose site of their responsibilities, and the entire organization simply becomes a tool to be used against non-members.

Nato was founded to prevent un-necessary warfare... it may just end up provoking it.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by johnsky
If Canada were to start mounting SAM sites along the US border, I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't be very happy about that either. See where I'm going with this?


No, because you are comparing apples to grapes.
SAM sites are offensive, whereas a defense shield is well, defensive.

[edit on 16-9-2007 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by AlphaHumana
 


putin is wrong about nato.it is best for the whole world that the usa has germany amongst its allies in europe and japan in asia-----no one in their right minds wants to set the world stage up again the way it was before ww2 thanks very much. i used to hate that at work-just changing things for the sake of change-----i figured if it works ok just the way it is shouldnt we leave things alone?doesnt that make sense?--- where i worked for the government they always liked to do what i thought was the reverse of common sense.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 04:59 PM
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well, russia has a european history together with germany.
I think this is dangerous because it destabilizises the current situation.
this years after 911 are the most unfinished ones.
the guys behind the NWO think time runs for them. but they are wrong.
russia is a strong country with great traditions.

the NWO now tries to separate european countries.


[edit on 16-9-2007 by anti72]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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They invaded Chechnya.


Why did they invade btw? Could it be because Chechnya was the stage for the continued Jihad against Russia?

Unlike in Iraq, ACTUALL Chechen terrorist were killing and kidnapping Russians far before the invasion.


[quoye]But then they couldn't afford to invade since Afghanistan.


Not following you there. The did invade, twice, and currently on sporadic grenade launcher attacks on block posts take place, instead of a full out war as it happened in the 90s.


They didn't "invade" Chechnya, for crying out loud.

I suppose you think chechnya is some little country minding it's own business until Russia came along?

It was a breakaway republic. Russia sent troops in to stop the rebellion. It wasn't an invasion. It is akin to the US Federal Government sending in troops to Utah, should they decide to try and break away...


Not exactly. If Utah was turned into a criminal state by local organized crime, if Utah government was replaced with criminals, if Utah police was replaced by gangs, if Utah National Guard was turned into a gorilla army all of whom made their money by terrorizing, robbing, killing and kidnapping people from their neighboring states, and then proclaiming their independence from US LAW in order to officially declare Utah as a safe heaven for lawlessness, then it would be something of what went down in Chechnya.

The tragedy there is not unique by any means. A number of Chechens leaders really did want LEGAL independence from Russia and wanted an OFFITIAL government, but unfortunately they were REPEATEDLY eliminated by their own countrymen who were simply criminals interested only in power and money.

Russian government held repeated negotiations which such leaders only to see them get assassinated, or finding that cease fires could not be upheld do to lack of Chechen control over their own forces.

Russia even offered official independence to Chechens, but with a conditional border control, which would have fully controlled the smuggling of guns, drugs and people to and from Chechnya.

Not surprisingly Chechens refused the offer every time. They need those borders to be opened, because since they have ABSOLUTELY no industry of their own, their influence is fed ONLY by criminal enterprise.

In the end it’s the people that suffer for it all, bth Chechen and Russian.


Oh yeah I forgot Russia only invaded and occupied eastern europe for 40, 50 years.

Thinking that russia could role over anyone other then 3rd world nations is kind of funny.


Please don’t blame Americans for such statements, blame the people that print our history books and know that those people are NOT Americans them selves.


Yeah I guess stalin was really pushing for peace with the purges that killed millions and the occupation of eastern europe by force. And building a wall in germany so that eastern berlin could not ESCAPE to the west.


There was a “little” issue if war REPARATIONS and DEPT conditions, not to mention the unresolved issue of American massive LOOTING and refusing to return treasures which were looted by the Nazis in the first place.

While official propaganda blames Swiss banks for hiding Nazi gold, New York banks get a clean slate for hiding looted Nazi gold.

Russian “Amber room” is lost to this day, all while ever since 1945 Russian officials suspected that it is kept in New York vaults.

Remember, in the end all such conflicts are all about who stole what.


You know nothing about America. The news in europe is so slanted and anti US its a joke. I was visiting family in portugal when the Oklahoma bomber was executed its amazing how much of an issue Europe made over it. In fact its kind of a joke.

If i were you I'd be more worried about Russia returning to its old ways.


Here’s a good example of propaganda conditioning.

European media slanted? LOL! Don’t thinks, its how effective American propaganda really is!

The execution of Timothy McVeigh was a big deal because of his TRIAL, and lack of EVIDENCE that he was the only bomber.

What European media reported and what our didn’t, is that evidence showed that McVeigh could not have done it by him self, and that by default makes it a CONSPIRACY while the court pinned everything on him and executed him for it.

What European media correctly showed is that American justice system happily singles out one man while clearly ignoring a larger conspiracy, and then executes him to satisfy the mob.

Russia returning to old ways? If not taking crap is old ways, then all the power to them. I’m sure with that kind of mentality people will say that Iraq wants to return to “old ways” when they VOTE for kicking out US forces.


The missile shield would mean Russia will have to spend billions in R&D to counter it. Then affective deployment may take years beyond that.


ABM is exactly the issue here.


Additionally The US has, Russia may feel, a vehicle capable of flying between Mach 6 -- 9, if it's true Russia cannot stop an attack with known and speculative present day technology.


Yeah, that would the hypersonic X-project NASA is working on, the one they bough the tests data for from the Russians. Project “Holod” to be exact, not to mention “Gela” hypersonic cruise missile they already have, and a multitude of hypersonic separating warheads already in service.



SAM sites are offensive, whereas a defense shield is well, defensive.


4thDoctorWhoFan, b-bb-bbbb-BAGEL!

How about his one - “Your shield is offensive to me because it’s stopping my defensive spear!”

Oh lets just cut to the chase here - “Those crazy people, their faces keep hitting our fists! They are so barbaric that they refuse to understand that their house was repossessed by the bank for not being “civilized” enough, and sold to us at a closed auction for ONE dollar, so we live here now because my British uncle is a banker, and my American aunt works for ADL!”

Get real, this is a “deny ignorance” forum after all…



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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This might sound crazy but before this most recent rift w/ russia began the u.s. should have been making overtures to russia to have them join nato.

of course the russkies hate the idea of nato - nato is a big scary/kick ass fighting force - which exists to fight and defend against russia....russia has no one (warsaw pact anyone?)...so they cozy up when useful w/ china and iran...we should invite russia to the party - and then we can all party!

russia was brutally invaded during ww2...they lost a lot of people...there isn't a ton of trust there in regards to w. european countries...i think they would totally join nato...then we could gang up on china...and then we win!



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:51 PM
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of course the russkies hate the idea of nato - nato is a big scary/kick ass fighting force - which exists to fight and defend against russia....russia has no one (warsaw pact anyone?)...so they cozy up when useful w/ china and iran...we should invite russia to the party - and then we can all party!


Please, can’t we be a little less obvious?

1. What is the difference between Soviet Union and Russia?
2. Why does NATO still exist when USSR doesn’t?
3. Iran is a Muslim state, China whet to war with Russia, and Russians wiped out involved Chinese forces ENTIRELY. There were NO prisoners.

That’ll be one heck of a party.


russia was brutally invaded during ww2...they lost a lot of people...there isn't a ton of trust there in regards to w. european countries...i think they would totally join nato...then we could gang up on china...and then we win!


News flash, Russians trust Europeans a hell of a lot more then Americans, especially after US NAVY attempted to INVADE Crimea under a false NATO flag just a year ago!

US troops had to be EVACUATED because local Russians literally BLOCKADED them through out the region, and openly threatened ARMED conflict with NATO if those forces were not immediately removed.

Here’s a bit of reality, US dollars are no longer preferred in Russia, Euros are. For example, while Euros can be used as currency in most stores, US dollars can’t.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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He's absolutely right. Relations between Russia and Europe are actually pretty good. The only reason I can see Putin disliking Nato is because it places Europe on a false sense of security with the US... the US could step in and go nuts in Europe, and none of the neighboring nato nations would dare to help because the US is part of Nato.

The way I see it. The US should be removed from nato... all they've done to nato so far is dragged european countries into their wars.

Last I checked, the european populations weren't exactly happy about that.

Russia however has proven themselves to resort to diplomatic responses before thinking about using their military muscle. For this, Russia should be brought into Nato.


I'd trust a Russian military force over an American force any day.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:04 AM
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I see that the TimesOnline.uk problem is growing fast, so from now on I’ll link all timesonline.uk related ATS topics to this thread;


TimesONLINE.uk – Web wide News Corp propaganda ALERT!!!



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Rely on INDEPENDENT and UNBIASED news sources, NOT News Corp!



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:29 AM
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sounds to me like the cold war is happening all over again

its a shame russia cant go with the flow like everyone else



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by doctorlove
sounds to me like the cold war is happening all over again

its a shame russia cant go with the flow like everyone else



What? So they can be steamrollered by the U.S.?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 01:07 AM
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Let we see China. almost everyone was disagreed with Chinas communist model. people says that China would never be a great country with that, but now!?
I don't think so Putin is a guy with crazy and fool idea. he knows what he doing!
Russia now was back again as we know. So, just see how it will comesout!
Maybe his inforieign policy is too hard, but maybe it's good to Russia it-self.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by johnsky
Russia however has proven themselves to resort to diplomatic responses before thinking about using their military muscle.


So it was a diplomatic response in Chechniya?



For this, Russia should be brought into Nato.


NATO was established to counter Russia and the threat posed by the large numbers of Soviet troops along the border of West Germany. So allowing Russia into NATO especially given their current action is total lunacy!!


I'd trust a Russian military force over an American force any day.



Nuff said!
Seriously, do you subscribe to communist ideals?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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Seriously, I'm flattered, but wasting time, and stalking me on the net so you can attempt to put me down is pretty pathetic. Read the rules and regulations, then post again.

Stop ruining the news forums with nothing but slander. If you have information to give, or an opinion to share, then SHARE IT... don't stalk me around the forums just to use childish insults.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by johnsky
Seriously, I'm flattered, but wasting time, and stalking me on the net so you can attempt to put me down is pretty pathetic. Read the rules and regulations, then post again.

Stop ruining the news forums with nothing but slander. If you have information to give, or an opinion to share, then SHARE IT... don't stalk me around the forums just to use childish insults.


Dude, what are you talking about?
I was only countering the claims you made in the post.

Slander? Do you know what that means, seriously? How is countering your opinion with mine slander?
Stalking?
I posted in this thread before you did!!

Please, what insults are you talking about? I did no such thing!


Perhaps you just don't like people with a different opinion.



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