Death doesn't make sense according to physics

Originally posted by polomontana
Good questions Wigit. In fact dark matter and dark energy make up around 95% of the universe and scientist don't know what it is or what it's made of. Yet people can tell you that we die? That doesn't make sense.

Stating that dark matter makes up 95% of the universe is ludicrous... What would 95% of an infinite universe be??

Originally posted by polomontana

The fact is energy can't be created nor destroyed, it's really quite simple. Birth and death are just different energy states. Your energy doesn't die when your material body experiences death. That would go against the laws of physics as we know them.

I personally have come to the conclusion that First Law of Thermodynamics is based around the concept of an infinite universe.... it would be quite impossible to destroy energy when energy and the universe are infinite. Think about that, what is infinity - 1? Everything continues to roll over and exist again and again but in different forms...

Oh well, the FIGHT goes on. My 1 cent:

A---Energy in DECOHERENCE? Hmmm. Interestingly enough, the ROOT of the PREFIX "De" in Decoherence relates to DEAD! And COHERENCE is from COHER which means STICK TOGETHER. Thus, if you are in DECOHERENCE you are either NO LONGER STICKING TOGETHER, DYING or DEAD based on that word. So i'd have to say within those laws of PHYSICS you mentioned supra--your ENERGY dies, yes...

B---Something OTHER than ENERGY? Well, quite naturally, MY energy is other to YOUR energy. And OUR energy is OTHER to energy, period. Other means ONE of the TWO. So yes, I would be and so would you--something other than energy (or even TO ENERGY).

Originally posted by OGofCriminalLaw
A---Energy in DECOHERENCE? Hmmm. Interestingly enough, the ROOT of the PREFIX "De" in Decoherence relates to DEAD! And COHERENCE is from COHER which means STICK TOGETHER. Thus, if you are in DECOHERENCE you are either NO LONGER STICKING TOGETHER, DYING or DEAD based on that word. So i'd have to say within those laws of PHYSICS you mentioned supra--your ENERGY dies, yes...

If only we knew what you meant by "your ENERGY."

Before talking about energy learn what energy actually is. your thoughts and memories are not made of energies but are very complex neuronal systems in your brain. Damage these connections and memories/mental capacities are lost, end of story.

Originally posted by DarkSide
Before talking about energy learn what energy actually is. your thoughts and memories are not made of energies but are very complex neuronal systems in your brain. Damage these connections and memories/mental capacities are lost, end of story.

Everything is energy.

I think that because we are energy and because energy can contain a brain that contains very complex neuronal systems that our "soul" is part of an energy that we know little about while alive.

I am always me whether I can remember a few things here and there. I don't remember my early childhood, it doesn't mean I didn't exist as a child or have brain damage.

Could the same not be said for before our births and after our deaths? Just because you don't remember it, doesn't mean you didn't exist.

The bottom line is that you exist. Energy can not be created or destroyed. Only transfer forms. You, as your individual or "soul", are a singular energy that can was not created or and can not be destroyed. What physical state you are in and whether you have the capacity for memory is another story.

The "God" people are seeking is energy, which everything is. Energy is infinite. Reality is just how "souls" interperet the energy they observe. You don't cease to exist because there was never a beginning to your existence, there was and is only energy and soul (individuals) to observe it.

[edit on 12/26/2007 by Spoodily]

Originally posted by Spoodily
Everything is energy.

...

I think that because we are energy and because energy can contain a brain that contains very complex neuronal systems that our "soul" is part of an energy that we know little about while alive.

...You, as your individual or "soul", are a singular energy that can was not created or and can not be destroyed.

The "God" people are seeking is energy, which everything is. Energy is infinite. Reality is just how "souls" interperet the energy they observe. You don't cease to exist because there was never a beginning to your existence, there was and is only energy and soul (individuals) to observe it.

Begging the question
Bare assertion fallacy
Negative proof
Affirming the consequent
etc

Especially the second one.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Johnmike]

reply to post by Badge01


Do we even know if a computer even CAN BE self consciencious?
Not saying they can't but............ Do we know for sure its possible?
I mean there are arguments that want to say we aren't even self consciencous of which I disagree with but eh.


And to the rest of you. Get off it. We all THINK we know. But we don't REALLY know jack. You can spout whatever this and that, that you WANT. That agrees with or against your stance.

If the answer was simple to prove there would be universal agreement (yes some people do fit the derogatory statements that you two fling at each other but I however am not, the derogatory crap labels from both sides to clarify) and we wouldn't be having these little battles constantly.



[edit on 26-12-2007 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by Spoodily
Everything is energy.

...

I think that because we are energy and because energy can contain a brain that contains very complex neuronal systems that our "soul" is part of an energy that we know little about while alive.

...You, as your individual or "soul", are a singular energy that can was not created or and can not be destroyed.

The "God" people are seeking is energy, which everything is. Energy is infinite. Reality is just how "souls" interperet the energy they observe. You don't cease to exist because there was never a beginning to your existence, there was and is only energy and soul (individuals) to observe it.

Begging the question
Bare assertion fallacy
Negative proof
Affirming the consequent
etc

Especially the second one.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Johnmike]

The links that you provided can be applied to the belief that what I said isn't true. Just sayin'.

einstein said he beleived in life after death, because energy cannot die.

Sure. Your energy will be recycled and ultimately all parts of it will be in something that is "living" again. In reality, energetically... we NEVER die because everything is alive, everything is a part of living Though as Human beings we surely pass away.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by Spoodily


See, however, that you're making claims. There's no (convincing) evidence or any reason to believe that we are made of energy or have a soul.

Not that I'm an atheist, but I get to my beliefs through logic and not through random metaphysical ideas.

reply to post by Johnmike


I am not religious or an atheist (which is a religion). I base my theories on science, which is neutral to beliefs and open to researching any possibility.


Edit:

Everything is energy. At the beginning of this universe the energy was pure and consolidated. The big bang theory describes the expansion of the universe through very basic, incorrect means. The fact that some people think the big bang theory means the universe exploded from a point of compressed matter is hilarious and says alot about the average consensus.. I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything. They can either accept the truth of the matter (ha, pun) or live in denial. It doesn't affect me personally, I'm just a messenger of knowledge.

[edit on 12/28/2007 by Spoodily]

Originally posted by Spoodily
I base my theories on science

Science is also a religion.

Everything is energy. At the beginning of this universe the energy was pure and consolidated.

Are you insinuating that the energy has become "impure"?

The big bang theory describes the expansion of the universe through very basic, incorrect means.

How is the universe expanding? What is it expanding into? Where is it going? How did it start? Did it start? Can you tell us more, please?

The fact that some people think the big bang theory means the universe exploded from a point of compressed matter is hilarious and says alot about the average consensus.

Could you elucidate on the real facts of the big bang?

I'm just a messenger of knowledge.

As we are all such and so is everything else.

reply to post by Paul_Richard



Paul, yet once again one of your posts with which I agree with.
You are truly an asset to ATS.

Dear Out... and others,

I think there are problems when dealing with these kinds of questions. They are very important ones, but our culture expects certain responses either within the context of our traditions (e.g. Jesus is the only begotten Son), or within the limits of what science thinks about the universe at this time (e.g. the age of the universe determined from left-over radiation they’ve found).

My answers to you are outside of these boxes, and I would guess that it is going to be hard for most readers to understand what is being addressed. My source of information is from the spiritual guide called the Urantia Book, and from my own experience using the guides within.

Truth is a spiritual universe commodity. Spirit is completely informed about what it has initiated as the universe and all the doings that go on it. Let me attempt to address your questions from the spiritual perspective. They are not easy questions either IMO.

You ask:
Are you insinuating that the energy has become "impure"?

My Answer:
The pure energy, or combined energy the other poster refers to, points to a past state of being that was not shared with the universes of time and space. The First Source and Center, besides being spirit, is also pure energy of every kind, and it is this pure energy within the First Source that “He/It” used to split into two.

In the beginning, as they say, all energy was one, but upon the decision to diversify and create a time-space universe, the First Source, separated that energy that was material out of the energy that was life (spiritual). The bifurcation of absolute energy (one unified and infinite energy in the First Source/Cause) came forth in two streams - spiritual and material. The originals of this energy still circulate in the universe today. They can not be impure.

You state:
The big bang theory describes the expansion of the universe through very basic, incorrect means.

Answer:
You are correct in seeing that no “big bang” happened. It is highly complex to explain, but essentially the bifurcation of energy into matter and spirit (the core of a universe and the Core of Spirit) were actualized into contactable places. Space and time were an actual endowment (or creative consequence) of the choices made to separate the two energies. It did not require explosions or big bangs to get it going.


You ask:
How is the universe expanding?


Answer:
The universe is currently expanding for several reasons:
a) There is something called space respirations, which is the motion OF space much like our lungs do. The cosmological text explains that space respires in response to its control mechanism in the core universe, and there is an outward going impulse of space for about 1 billion years (and we are in that cycle now), and a 1 billion years of the seeming contraction of space.


b) Space areas are pushing out to the edges of the universe. At the very edges there is no matter but a quiescence of thinly endowed space area that is not reactive to the cosmic energies placed in space from the core universe. This phenomena is independent from the space respiration described above. No living being could travel in it or live in the quiescence areas.


c) Space circulates in a flow from its core origins to the outer limits of the space fringe and back again for refreshment at the core. Because space respires and it gets pushed around in the described circulation, something called an “absolute direction” can be measured in space because instruments can be made to detect the higher pressure of space being pushed out (North) from the lower pressure of space being taken in at the core (South). Our science is completely unware of this mechanism.


You ask:
What is it expanding into? Where is it going?
Answer:
Space and its co-ordinate endowment of time, in this universe age, has expanded to take into account four whole new space levels that have nothing to do with time. Our telescopes are peering into the future when they look at the wall of galaxies, which lie beyond out time-space universes, and these new creations are hundreds and thousands of times greater than our own levels of space. The universe age that lies beyond this expansion has not been fully addressed or revealed at this time.

You ask:
How did it start? Did it start? Can you tell us more, please?

Answer:
A very difficult questions, but it is not entirely unanswerable. See the Answer to the first question or two that you asked. That will provide the basis for a good answer.


You ask:
Could you elucidate on the real facts of the big bang?

Answer:
No actual big bang has taken place. It really has more to do with the consequences of the division of the pure energy into the energies of spirit and matter. The Third Source and Center (The Infinite Spirit) designed mind for time-space beings like ourselves to be able to synthesize meaning when observing the energy of spirit (value) and the energy of matter (universe facts). Mind is designed to intervene to ask questions about what spirit is doing and how those actions condition the world (matter) we live in. Mind is also a consequence of energy being divided into two separate realities and to give a frame of reference for our lives.

A big bang supposes that universe creation is happenstance, but that is not the case although it is not easy to discern the spirit hand behind the machine we call the universe. Spirit achieves its interests by designing universes and people in the best way possible, and none of these designs actually requires an explosion to bring them into being.

These questions are asking about things that are outside of present knowledge and therefore almost sound like science fiction. However, if some thought is given to the subject of how we came to be, the true thinker will have to consider some of these given explanations to understand what they are participating in.

Best of luck in your examination of life!

Ron

From reading the thread it looks like some people are thinking of energy as a literal scientific measurement, while some look at it as a metaphysical sort of idea. If you think of it in the later way then yes we never die, our "energy" is all still there. However is you follow the former, our energy never "dies" because it was never alive. It just is released in the environment through heat or through decomposition, or any other method of consumption. When we are born no energy is created, just converted from the food our mothers ate to create all the parts of our bodies. We are alive, our energy/mass is not.

Originally posted by Aronolac
Dear Out... and others,

Truth is a spiritual universe commodity.

This sounds very "religious" and pretty. I believe truth is explained quite simply as subjective. Each person experiences truth differently and truth is relative from subject to subject. I believe there is no one truth, yet that everything is true and can be explained as such in some manner.

No one is yet to explain to me what spiritual means and if it has to do with faith then count me out. I'd rather believe in what I can know, prove, and logically ratiocinate than put my genuineness into an aimless emotion.

My Answer:
The pure energy, or combined energy the other poster refers to, points to a past state of being that was not shared with the universes of time and space. The First Source and Center, besides being spirit, is also pure energy of every kind, and it is this pure energy within the First Source that “He/It” used to split into two.

So are we now claiming there to be more than one universe? What do you mean by that? What exactly is a universe to you? There are two different types of energy? The above quote really sounds like a Bible verse spoken by Jesus... now revised into a non-religious "spiritual" text. I think you know what verse I mean? It sounds very nice and all, but no where does science say this nor does logic agree with it.

In the beginning, as they say, all energy was one, but upon the decision to diversify and create a time-space universe, the First Source, separated that energy that was material out of the energy that was life (spiritual).

I've never thought of energy as being one, I've always thought of it as being 0. The rest of this sounds sci-fi fanciful. All energy is life energy. Everything is living, everything is of life, everything plays a part of life and without any exact source of energy the existence or "universe" as it is called would cease existing in the blink of an eyelash. So earlier you claimed the energy to be a spiritual commodity of universal truth. Now there are two types of different energy? Woah, where are we going? Difficult to understand, yes. Because this is all unverified, it's just someone's mind making something up.

The bifurcation of absolute energy (one unified and infinite energy in the First Source/Cause) came forth in two streams - spiritual and material. The originals of this energy still circulate in the universe today. They can not be impure.

I think that anything is possible, except a beginning and an ending to energy, and anything that attempts to tell me otherwise will not sit pretty with my mind.

Answer:
You are correct in seeing that no “big bang” happened. It is highly complex to explain, but essentially the bifurcation of energy into matter and spirit (the core of a universe and the Core of Spirit) were actualized into contactable places. Space and time were an actual endowment (or creative consequence) of the choices made to separate the two energies. It did not require explosions or big bangs to get it going.

This sounds delicious again, but I'm afraid that's as far as it gets. As far as I'm concerned there was never a beginning or an end to anything. The universe simply is the way that it is and it has always been that way. There aren't two different types of energies, there are two different types of motives. There is positive and negative, this doesn't separate the energy, rather it connects it. There is no division of anything.

Answer:
The universe is currently expanding for several reasons:
a) There is something called space respirations, which is the motion OF space much like our lungs do. The cosmological text explains that space respires in response to its control mechanism in the core universe, and there is an outward going impulse of space for about 1 billion years (and we are in that cycle now), and a 1 billion years of the seeming contraction of space.

So you are calling the universe a closed system that has reached equillibrium, entropy, and 100% efficiency? I think it's all in your heads, space neither contracts nor extracts.

b) Space areas are pushing out to the edges of the universe. At the very edges there is no matter but a quiescence of thinly endowed space area that is not reactive to the cosmic energies placed in space from the core universe. This phenomena is independent from the space respiration described above. No living being could travel in it or live in the quiescence areas.

Can you point me to the person that traveled there to bring us back this amazing view and knowledge of quiescence space? Oh, it's like that God dilemna... it exists, you'll just never know it. Gotta have faith again, right? So now we have independence again, could you explain the force that separates these two things? And once you do, are you sure it doesn't connect them?

c) ... “absolute direction” can be measured in space because instruments can be made to detect the higher pressure of space being pushed out (North) from the lower pressure of space being taken in at the core (South). Our science is completely unaware of this mechanism.

And you happen to have stumbled upon the answers? To me they fall direly short. Little explanation, lots of faith, illogical jumps to irrational conclusions and then spiritually and mysteriously manipulative and appeasing to the lost and weak mind.

Answer:
A very difficult questions, but it is not entirely unanswerable. See the Answer to the first question or two that you asked. That will provide the basis for a good answer.

So you don't really know anything and all of this could be made up?

Answer:
No actual big bang has taken place. It really has more to do with the consequences of the division of the pure energy into the energies of spirit and matter.

I think your definitions would sit better if you acknowledged that everything is pure energy. If not this will continue to sound contradictive. I think instead of using division if you also or only used consummation, acclimation, coming together, conjoining, annexation etc... your theory would fit better.

Mind is designed to intervene to ask questions about what spirit is doing and how those actions condition the world (matter) we live in.

My mind doesn't ask questions, it merely observes and learns. Scientists ask the universe what it is doing, the universe entails every aspect of its parts. Why you continue to state there is some higher and holier spirit is a fallacy. Everything that everything (everywhere) is doing is what conditions the world that we live in.

Mind is also a consequence of energy being divided into two separate realities and to give a frame of reference for our lives.

Divided? I don't understand separation because it is impossible, there is only connection.

Best of luck in your examination of life!

Ron

Thank you, Ron! I'm contently awaiting proof for any of this. I think luck is an irresponsible tool.

Part 1 of 2

Dear Out... and others,

I make it evident that I use a great revelatory cosmology to base these answers upon. It is called the Urantia Book and I honestly believe that you, Lastoutfinite... are about ready for it. It is over 2,000 pages with explanations to questions you are asking. It's available in bookstores and online.

That said, I have a lot of experience in this field mainly because of events 19 years ago that showed me “proof” of what the cosmology of the text talks about. It’s a dual universe we live in so I think it is appropriate I had a dual experience that changed a scientific perspective into a cosmological one. I will briefly give you some details:

Two things happened to me in 1988 that altered ever having to go through the “normal” approach to vexing ethical and moral problems, engineering and otherwise: Working with a German scientist living in this country, he had discovered the mechanical means to reducing coal powders to 1/500 and 1/750 microns. These discoveries produced (mathematically -his work, not mine) a “grey gas” which behaved so strangely we thought we stumbled onto a new principal regarding the formation of matter.

Second, as I wrote in the post on “population reduction ” (see, if interested, Population Reduction), I awoke one morning speaking telepathically to a presence around me. I both directly felt and mindally saw an individual in discourse with me. It was quite comfortable and easy to do. Without going deeply into it, it was and they are, an introduction into the spiritual hierarchy surrounding our world as it guidance. Some of us have experiences that are not explainable within the normal guidelines of our society.

It is their text (The Urantia Book), and it is their records and experience I have tentatively made available to you through me in the recent post today. These are the major influences and experiences that have conditioned me with regard to this thread.

You write:
This sounds very "religious" and pretty. I believe truth is explained quite simply as subjective. Each person experiences truth differently and truth is relative from subject to subject. I believe there is no one truth, yet that everything is true and can be explained as such in some manner.

Answer:
I don’t know about the “pretty part”, but truth is part religious and part scientific– material. Truth is a blend of the totality of all the meanings of all the facts associated with a specific observation. Science may observe facts, but IF they can not use those facts in every context of use; that is, universal infallibility, then they do not have the truth, but a localized fact - a relativity.

Looking down from the top of the spiritual hierarchy, they do not usually need to deal with our relativity for themselves to understand our dilemmas, but they more see us as dealing with facts struggling to see the truth. Much of the spiritual work is the attempt to school us by guiding us through experiences that allow us to glimpse the truth through the facts we happen to work with. That work is the primary task of the angelic corp appointed to each individual at the proper age.

So, as you may see, I agree with your statement that from our point of view, truth is subjective. I would caution you and others, however, that truth rings bells inside us that pure intellectual reasoning can not do. And if you hear those bells - the conscious confirmation of one’s Eureka! Moment - do not ignore it, for the discovery is universal and quite real.

The difference between relative truth and absolute truth is not so hard to describe although beings like ourselves will not experience “absolute” truth until we graduate the present space areas of time (relativity). Absolute truth exists in a different place. It does not exist in time or space, and is not transferrable (knowable) to where we are. We may sense its underlying essence in the facts we deal with, but to actually experience it in absolute terms is not ours to do. Truth in time can withstand all of the attacks on its veracity, but in the final analysis, time truth is inconcussable - it can not be shaken. So one might imagine what actually experiencing absolute truth must be like if only feeling it as a time shadow of itself.

The discussion of time in relation to the absolutes is far beyond our scope at this point.

Continued Part 2 . . . next

Post 2 of 3 continued from 1 above . . .

You write:
No one is yet to explain to me what spiritual means and if it has to do with faith then count me out. I'd rather believe in what I can know, prove, and logically ratiocinate than put my genuineness into an aimless emotion.

Answer:
Do you know that I know of no philosopher on earth who has ever satisfactorily answered you question, “What is Spirit?”

However, we can say this about Spirit:
1) Spirit and matter represent two different operating systems of reality.
2) Spirit is a much higher energy system than matter is. Spirit can not be condensed; matter can be.
3)Spirit is not composed of electronic patterns; Spirit controls matter (and mind) - a prerogative of Spirit.
4)Spirit does not need mind to know; it inherently knows.
5) Spirit is not a person or thing; spirit is the energy composition of the First Source and Center and His/Its Coordinates.
6)Spirit has great power of transformation and of transcendence and is used by the personality of the First Source and Center to direct, control, create, serve, and perpetuate all of the universes. Yet it can be directly observed or interacted with by material beings. Humans are almost totally matter, and it requires a translation of spiritual contact to be conscious with our types.

I once wrote a book called the Psychology of Spirit, and in it was chapter on “What Is Spirit” - some 75 pages in the chapter. So you may see there is a great deal to say about what Spirit is, but in the last analysis, the chapter was a failure because it required the use of language that was so hard to understand it failed to attract attention as its essence is beyond words. What I have given you above is hardly the essence of spirit, but the six points are truthful and can stand the test of time.

Religion is a personal belief about spirit that maintains its power by a direct experience with the personality of the First Source and Center. This characteristic of the First Source/Original Cause is the only “force” that can translate into the human mind and body as an experience. All else about the First Source is beyond the mortal comprehension or experience. That is the source of faith, and we react with different kinds of faith too, but there is no law or rule that a mortal must be “religious” to experience the companionship of the First Source. First Cause is beyond religion, but is the heart of time-space religions.

You write:
So are we now claiming there to be more than one universe? What do you mean by that? What exactly is a universe to you? There are two different types of energy? The above quote really sounds like a Bible verse spoken by Jesus... now revised into a non-religious "spiritual" text. I think you know what verse I mean? It sounds very nice and all, but no where does science say this nor does logic agree with it.

Answer:
Yes, there are multiple universes, but that is a misleading truth the way we think on this planet. Put away, if you can, what you think a multiple universes might be and listen:

The First Cause maintained infinity and time simultaneously. To do that, some barriers had to be put up, otherwise infinity would destroy time, and the use of time is one of the creative purposes for having a universe in the first place. We will not discuss that aspect at this time.

The barriers erected actually divide the Master Universe into SEVEN levels. At the core, the first level, neither time or space exists; it is pure cosmic force and its energy equivalents. The central core is infinite in the presence of the First Source and his Coordinates.

Surrounding the core is a timeless creation that does not use sequence to learn. They eventuate reality in their lives. We as we are could neither see or hear any of these creations.

Then comes the time space level where time and space so qualify certain aspects of infinity that those of us born into it play out our learning experiences by a sequence of small and large “events”. Even our genes are programmed to regulate us by a sequence called “aging”.

There are four more levels I have mentioned before (in the observed wall of galaxies) outside of time to be used for a future universe age.

The seven Master Universe space levels are barriers to each other as there are different realities to be experienced in these other levels for which we have no capacity to enjoy. Our level participates in time sequences, but the other levels do not require time to complete the life experience. Humans are only found in the time-space levels. All seven space levels are composed of the same materials as what we have in time. The lone exception of that rule is the central universe.

You write:
I've never thought of energy as being one, I've always thought of it as being 0. The rest of this sounds sci-fi fanciful. All energy is life energy. Everything is living, everything is of life, everything plays a part of life and without any exact source of energy the existence or "universe" as it is called would cease existing in the blink of an eyelash. So earlier you claimed the energy to be a spiritual commodity of universal truth. Now there are two types of different energy? Woah, where are we going? Difficult to understand, yes. Because this is all unverified, it's just someone's mind making something up.

Answer: I will be brief. Not all energy is life. Rocks are not living; they are properly called “in-animate”. The First Source and Center divided primal and original energy into spirit and matter, the animate and in-animate, the living and the non-living. There is proper terminology used to define what type of reality one speaks of. Life (spirit) is Deified. Matter is non-deified. The two energies unify in the First Source, in his person, but no other thing or being in all creation experiences that unification except the First Source.

END of Post 2 - continue to Post 3 and final

Post 3 and final

Your write:

. . . As far as I'm concerned there was never a beginning or an end to anything.

Answer: Time-space language requires some explanation as to how we have reached the point in the present. Behind us is history. Ahead of us is potential - undefined destiny. History relates how time-space began, for it does have a beginning, but the underlying forces of universe building existed simultaneously as actual and potential intentions of the First Source before time-space existed. Those of us born in time can not conceive of an un-caused cause as described, but that is what the First Source is. That is not religious fantasy, but cosmic truth, and until you and I are far beyond the shores of our origins on this planet, we will have to contemplate that situation as an unexplained probability.

I have not responded to all of what you have asked, and I doubt what you are really digging for is fully known even to yourself. Thank you for your good questions, and if what I have not answered is still important to address, well, try again.

Thank you.
Ron