Germany?, page 1
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reply posted on 21-1-2004 @ 10:42 AM by Phoenix
The Germans had a very effective university system from the 1870s onward that taught cutting edge science.

The successive governments supported the institutes set up for research into applied and theoretical science, especially if there were possible future military applications.

After versaille treaty, disarmanent following WW-I and the political turmoil of the 1920s- Hitler promised to rebuild German industry and military power.

A high percentage of German weapons used in WW-II were developed and tested in the mid 1930s.

Due to Hitlers pogrom against the Jews many of Germanys and Europes best theroetical scientists emigrated to the west. (later to work on manhatten project) Thus crippling the German research on atomic energy and weapons.

In the years 1939-1943 many advanced weapons were designed but not brought to fruition because Hitler believed the war would be over before they could be fielded.

Suprisingly German industry was not fully converted to an all out war footing until 1943 after the defeat at Stalingrad and the increase in allied bombing of germany.

Many of the so called "Wonder Weapons" development and construction lagged behind conventional weapons manufacture until it was apparent to the Germans that a longer offensive or ultimately a defensive war had to be fought.

The German army started the war with an advantage in tactical planning at every level and had fielded the best automatic weapons in quanity and quality at the start.

France actually had more and better tanks but their use in infantry support role spread them far to thin to stop concentrated German advance.

The surprise met in Russia upon the discovery of the T-34 prompted the development of Tiger I and Panther tanks
only in response to the T-34.

The Luftwaffe was effective in tactical role of close support of Army offensives, This role only required relatively short range fighters in the air superiority role and medium range bomber aircraft.

With the onset of defeat on the battlefields of Russia, civilian and industrial losses in Germany Hitler became focused on the goal of "Revenge" and weapons that would allow Germany to prevail due to superiority.

The ME-262 is a classic example of the folly in Germanys top down procurement decisions. When Hitler was first shown this fighters capability the war in the east appeared to be winable, Hitler requested the 262 be developed as a tactical fighter/bomber that would strike terror in the Russian ranks.

If original plans had been undisturbed the ME-262 could possibly have been fielded in quanity as early as spring 1943 at a time when Germany had the pilots and fuel to mount missions that could have decimated allied bomber forces prior to P-51 escort deployment.

Early deployment and massive of the ME-262 most likely would have delayed the Normandy invasion by a year until US was ready with the Atomic bomb.

If air superiority had been regained in the east in mid 1943.
The Russians probably would have been held up at the Ukraine due to losses sustained by unchallenged german tactical aircraft.

In my opinion germany missing this one aircraft at the right time prevented it from having resources and time to make operational all the rest of the amazing weapons still on the drawing board at wars end - much to our benefit after the war.

Speculating I wonder what would have happened if the US had to use its limited quanity of Atomic bombs (2-3) on Germany instead of Japan.

Could the B-29s have gotten through the more effective German defense's, would Hitler have absorbed the losse's and continued fighting.

Did the US have the ability to make enough A-bombs to prevent the invasion of Japan planned for 1946 with Germany possibly still in the war with advanced weapons including ICBM and SAM missles in her inventory.


reply posted on 21-1-2004 @ 04:14 PM by shoo
If anybody likes to know something that typically defines Germany then try to get a copy of the german tax law - I once read it is as big as all tax laws from all other countries all over the world.

but now comments to some replies:

@masterofpuppets
War was the accelerator. It was a massive war machinery going on including many many technology which has been developed.

@KrazyIvan
That was true for Hitler. He planned mixtures of old Rome architecture and a little bit of the Egypts.

Now this has changed, I see the "bigger" as all others trend being left or let's better say moved to the USA and China. More to China meanwhile.

@nathraq
The Kindergeld program is still in effect to encourage people to get a baby. At least in Germany a kid is a financial risk for many people, the Kindergeld supports young families.
But it is far away from what Hitler thought of it: You breed Arians and get some money for it.


But what is sad, even to this day, is that modern medicine is based in large part on the experiments the sick scientists performed on their unwilling subjects.


I don't know where you got this from but it's not true. For sure in the KZs there have been awful testings with human live but nowadays it takes as a minimum 10 years to get a medicine to the market. And at least 4-6 years to start with testing it with humans and then only under strong security measures.

And we didn't import people! You say it like we got them into country like they are simple goods!

"We were getting around 250 Euro per kid"
Hm, 250 Euro? Usually today you don't get the same money for every kid. I am the 2nd kid and for me my parents got 150 Euro.

@specialasianX
I think you haven't meant it like that but "was never better off than it was under the NAZI's" is kinda bad formulated. I read you excluded some things but even economically it would have turned into a disaster if it there was peace some years more. And furthermore, it was a country being stuck on one leader, one party and full with sick stuff like the SS and HJ(Hitler-Jugend) and many many other stuff.
The day the Nazis came to power was the beginning of the worst time ever in Germany.

I would agree that things like unemployment etc dropped but hey: if you start out of nothing even a bit is damn much.
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