Liberals, media, and gays need to know how this country was founded!!

The Pilgrims and the Puritans certainly based the new colonies on Christianity. See Mayflower Compact, etc... BTW, Why do you appreciate thier departure from England's police-state, Melatonin???
Seeing as you're from America?
However the treaty of Tripoli states that while the United States Government, (according to Joel Barlow) was not founded on religion, it says that they hold no emnity against the religion of Barbary....
A far cry from many today!

Did you know that the supreme court building was built around 145 years after the founding of this country so none of our founding fathers had a say in how it was constructed???

It also has and engraving that states..."Equal Justice Under Law."
Equal, regardless of race, regardless of sex, regardless of religion....
thus, the legal system is not designed to give extra perks to christians.

take a look at some of our modern day art that has been chosen to decorate some of our buildings like the denver airport....
so in a few hundred years, should our population use this art to define our country also? just what kind of defination would they come up with using our modern day art? artists were contracted to design the artwork for these buildings and well, their artwork might define them to some extent, but it by no means defines the nation or the people within it....it is just art, decoration.

Did you know: that was many years ago, times have changed.

I feel its awful that some can't open thier eyes to change! Sure we all have different views, but there are many ways to express our views while keeping in mind, we all have FEELINGS!
Degrading our religions, ways of life and political views is not the way to discuss things. I for one, respect others views and listen to them, many times learning from what they have to say. Regardless of how each one of us lives our lifes, at least remember the word RESPECT.

reply to post by Clearskies


Treat people how you would like to be treated.

Xians don't follow the golden rule anymore, this thread's title and some of the other hate speech I've seen on this site by Xians against gays, Muslims, atheists and others has proved that.

If Xians are disliked by non Xians, there are good reasons for it: in large part, the self-righteousness and sanctimoniousness of modern day Xians is at its root.

Originally posted by Clearskies
The Pilgrims and the Puritans certainly based the new colonies on Christianity. See Mayflower Compact, etc... BTW, Why do you appreciate thier departure from England's police-state, Melatonin???

um... none of that has anything to do with the founding of the United States Government.

However the treaty of Tripoli states that while the United States Government, (according to Joel Barlow) was not founded on religion, it says that they hold no emnity against the religion of Barbary....
A far cry from many today!

actually, not just according to joel barlow... according to the president of the time and every single member of both houses of congress (yes, it was unanimously ratified)

what's funny is that this country was founded as a secular constitutional republic. god had no place in the laws..

and what's odd is that only a few of the commandments are actually part of the law... maybe 3

1:having gods before yahweh... not a crime
2:making graven images... not a crime
3: taking the lord's name in vain... not a crime
4:not keeping the sabbath... not a crime
5:not honoring your parents... not a crime
6:killing... crime (but you really didn't need the 10 commandments to tell you that)
7:adultery... not a crime, though it is grounds for divorce
8:theft... crime (again, don't need the 10 commandments to tell you that)
9:bearing false witness... only a crime in media or on the witness stand
10:coveting... not a crime (unless you're in an orwellian dystopia)

Originally posted by redseal
DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view .. it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

Did you know that 'this' country was not founded on Christianity: It was founded by Indians who were murdered and pushed into corners of the far west by those who believe in the all loving God. - oops, short term memory - easy to forget things that don't suit ones own agenda.

Just remember what was in America before the 10 commandments placed, wherever they are. So who founded what...sure, if you believe you are the owner of the ultimate truth, then everything is justifiable to achieve one's objective. - But Christians arent the only one who believe they own the truth, so do muslims, etc. Look at the mess the world is in as each 'party' tries to push their truth/"love" down someone else's throat.
Seem some would benefit from reading the words of 'Jesus' again.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Clearskies
The Pilgrims and the Puritans certainly based the new colonies on Christianity. See Mayflower Compact, etc... BTW, Why do you appreciate thier departure from England's police-state, Melatonin???
Seeing as you're from America?

Not from the states. Well, Cymru wasn't the last time I checked.

I don't think England was a 'police-state' during the 17th century. Although, I think the puritans quite appreciated the freedom to enact genocide on the native 'savages'. Remember, these puritans caused all kinds of trouble in the new world, they were oppressors of many non-puritans. Probably why the eventual founders of the US ensured a secular state.

Basically, the puritans threw their dummies out the pram when they couldn't get their own way in the formation of a 'pure' church of england.

Comparing the CoE and all the puritan offshoots in the US, I think old kingy made the right choice

Also glad that the puritanical Cromwell was eventually overthrown. It's quite funny that we in the UK have what you would like - an established faith, with a head of state that defends the faith. And I quite like the long-term outcome - apathy to religion, heh.

Maybe that's why you have all these problems with funniementalism. You need more religion in your establishment, eventually you'll tire of it, and see that its useless.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by melatonin]

Did you know that many Founders were Freemason, Deists, Quakers and Universalists, who were all violently opposed to ANY state religion?
There are all sorts of history revisionists who would like you to believe something different, but...freedom of religion was extremely important to the Founders, as well as separation of church and state. If you don't know that, then you have missed one of the most important points of the Constitution.
Their strong stance was in part due to the Puritans, who wanted to force their beliefs on everyone else. One example: burning 17 or so people who they thought were "witches".
And who is it that is pushing the idea that we're a "Christian Nation founded by Christians"? Why, Christians, of course. Some of the same people who ignore science and say the earth is only 6,000 years old. Guess now they want to ignore history, as well.


[edit on 15/9/07 by forestlady]

I think both sides are wrong. America was founded by Christians and America was not founded by Christians. I do not believe any of the founding fathers were atheists. After reading their writings, many of them were deeply religious and spiritual men. As it is today, the founding fathers did not all follow the same religious structure or belief. They were diverse and complicated men. If you could travel back in time all of them would say that they believe in God but each man might give his own definition of God – which again, is not so different then how we live today. You have to remember that our founding fathers were fighting against the Church of England. They knew all too well what happens when the power of religion is put into the wrong hands so the founders wanted to distance themselves from religious dominance. They wanted people to have rich spiritual lives but they did not want one religion to govern over the whole of the land.

did you know that at least one in 20 people is homosexual?

that means that MANY of the founding fathers were gay.

put that in your conservative pipe and smoke it.

This Country (the USA) was founded on the Articles of Conferation. Madison Notes about those meetings are the history of those meetings.

www.usconstitution.net...

Ye Shall Fear God.

www.constitution.org...

That basic principles go back many years.
www.constitution.org...

Constitutionalism is the idea, often associated with the political theories of John Locke and the "founders" of the American republic, and equated with the concept of the "Rule of Law", that government can and should be legally limited in its powers, and that its authority depends on enforcing these limitations. The following links and documents explore this concept in more detail.

www.constitution.org...

plato.stanford.edu...

www.usconstitution.net...

Notes From the Constitutional Convention

Ye Shall Read.

Let me first say that I take offense to the assumption that if you're a Christian then you're automatically anti-gay and/or anti-athiest. Being Christian does not automatically mean that you're Catholic or a radical evangelical. I happen to attend an Episcopal church, and if you know anything about my religion, then you know we are rather liberal. Personally, I am fairly conservative when it comes to most issues, but I support a person's right to practice whatever sexual preference they wish to. I also support a person's right to believe in whatever they want to, whether that's God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or absolutely nothing at all. To act as though the only thing that's keeping Christians from burning athiests and gays at the stake is the Constitution is not only absurd but outright offensive.

Furthermore, I think in recent decades, especially in this country's educational system, it has been the desire of many to re-write history. It's like the old Soviet dissident joke that goes "In the Soviet Union, the future is known; it's the past that is always changing." I believe it to be an indisputable fact that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values. Can it honestly be disputed that our founders' values came from the Bible? These men believed that liberty was only possible if it was understood that it was given by God. After all, it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"

Our founders, these largely religious men, wanted a religious country that enshrined liberty for all of its people- including those with different religions and those with no religion at all. I think everyone needs to realize that just because we are a Christian nation established with Christian values, does not mean that only Christians are entitled to be here and/or to be free. The American dream is for everyone, regardless of their faith. And I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for everything I've posted, but its my honest beliefs. Just because the media is constantly highlighting a few bad seeds among the Christian faith does not mean that we are some evil religion that is looking to crucify all of the sinners and non-believers.

Look, I don't want this country to become Christianland. And I think its absurd for anyone to think that it ever will. But even moreso, I don't want this country to follow in the footsteps of those secular nations in Western Europe. Look at those nations and tell me that you really want that to be our future.

That's just my two cents. Bear in mind that unlike others in this thread, I am not consumed with any hatred for those with differing opinions on this matter and differing personal beliefs when it comes to faith. I also didn't spend a ton of time researching things to make my points. I just want you all to think about what kind of country, and even world, we would be living in had this nation's founders not used the Jewish and Christian Bible as their guiding text.

so...the most inflammatory threads get the most response? I guess most people seek entertainment rather than knowledge.

Originally posted by jprophet420
did you know that at least one in 20 people is homosexual?

that means that MANY of the founding fathers were gay.

put that in your conservative pipe and smoke it.

....you blew my mind and i'm under the influence of no drugs, not even caffeine.

good show.

I'm not gay, I'm not a liberal and I am not a media person. The Church and government need to be separated. period. If I chose Not to believe in God I should not be chastised for it. Our religious fanatics are as bad as the Muslim radicals.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Larry B.]

Everyday there are people in this country digging a grave for the principles that this great nation was founded: Christianity. If this country's founders are muslims, your life would be very different now. Just imagine living in Iran, will ya? If you like that kinda lifestyle, no one is stopping you.

The end of the world is when one can no longer distinguished between what we should and should not do, such as sodomi. Black and white DO exists and they will serve as the color that judge you when you do die of cancer or HIV.

Everything and everyone feels that they are ENTITLED to everything nowadays. Equal rights must be earned, not asked. Adults parading in leather things and chaps during sundays in front of children are not the way to make people accept you and your lifestyle, such displays are unnecessary. Would you like straight guys to parade around? Celebrate your "difference" at your home.

Originally posted by befoiled
While we're at it why not bring back some other traditions from the era when our nation was in its infancy? Slavery, subjection of women, and the wholesale slaughter of the natives in this land come to mind.

I'll take our current situation minus one sitting president.

Here's an interesting historical tidbit


ngeorgia.com...


did you know...

reply to post by Skyfloating


I don't think that is the case at all. Let me give you an example of how our God works, then you explain it to me. Take one topic....Coal miners. Sometimes God performs his miracles and "saves" all of them, Sometimes he saves only some of them and other times he doesn't save any of them. I guess he just flips a coin to see who gets saved or gets too busy trying to save an 80 year old lady from a tornado that blew apart her mobil home. Meanwhile 2200 die in an earthquake. Go figure. Go ahead and explain it to me please.



[edit on 15-9-2007 by Larry B.]

No one is perfect. Those early founders who enacted slavery etc were wrong, but as you can see, we quickly got to the right path. So don't dig up old wounds to throw down a religion.

Christianity is not about being religious, but about being a GOOD and DECENT human being. It teaches us and guide us towards love, and good moral and decent way to act. It teaches us to love thy NEIGHBORS, unlike some other who teaches it's people to kill "unbelievers".

Without moral benchmark from christianity, abortion would be rampant, human organs would be grown in your backyard to be sold and harvested, babies would be cloned for medical purposes to "save human lives". Do you see now why it's wrong to do those even though they have good intentions?

Do you really want to live in a society that measures it's progress via short term cures and no longer-term guidance?

People who believes in religion are not all dumb or fanatical like you all seems to think, most have far superior capacity to think beyond the obvious. In my academic journey, I went from an atheist to a person who believes in God, and the higher I climb the academic ladder, the more company I found, my professors from Harvard, almost all believes in God. It's a journey of discovery, of higher understanding what's beyond a life beyond eat - crap - have sex - work - repeat.

So tell me, in a secular nation, what would guide it's path? Goodness? Moral? What is morality then? Would you create set of laws to condense those good morals and goodness? Well, then, that's what Christianity is, it's already done for us.




[edit on 15-9-2007 by chickeneater]

Any one think that this was posted just to raise hell on this board ?

This person should be warned at the lesat ..