a disturbing conversation I had

I am new here and was unsure where to post this . But I had this disturbing conversation with my sister went something like this. I had said to her I had read somewhere that the U.S.A., Canada and Mexico where going to micro-chip the new visa's ( most of my family is from canada I married an american). after reading this online it disturbed me. What she said to me disturbed me even more... she said "well they should if it will keep terrorists out". i replied" don't you see that the government is taking away our freedoms by hiding behind the excuses of terrorist attacks?". But she didnt understand or see this as I am now, and to be quite honest i have never seen this until recently I was one of the many masses following my government blindly believing they had my best "interests" in mind. I dont want my children to be micro-chipped, has anyone heard any theories or ways to detect or remove them? How do we stop them from doing this to the whole continent when everyone is scared of terrorists? Any info or thoughts would be greatly appreciated

My guess is that when the time comes to accept the chip, most people will be unaware of what they are accepting. Everyone thinks its gunna be a forced "chipping" and they are gunna line people up with armed guards and blatant "get the chip or else" attitudes... but that just wouldn't work. The architects of the New World Plan will wait until they see an opportune time to gently slip the "chip" into the mass existence under the disguise of something else, because as we've seen, most people aren't dumb enough to willingly go get chipped just to be trendy or in with the times. You probably won't realize you've been chipped until after you've been chipped.

You're right to be concerned for your children's sake.

Here's a link to an in depth article on this subject from the Washington Post.

At about the time the news came out about the cancer risk, there were also several threads started about this subject as well.

Welcome to America!

France are going to start DNA testing immigrants that claim to be relatives of those already resident.

Fail the test, no entry.

I agree that "forced chipping" will not be needed to get the masses to accept it. It would b packaged as a time saving tool, security device, a gps locator, and medical records storage device all wrapped into one.

I remember the days of going to the bank once a week and getting out enough money to last me the entire week. Now I have a debit card and haven't been to my bank in a year or so. It is easy and convenient and i can use it everywhere.

I would imagine that the chip would be "sold" to us in a similar fasion.

Everyone is going to want one of these things.

So what if they chip us? I don't see what the big deal is here.

The first step was when we all... well 90% of us stopped using cash and began using our check cards for every purchase.
No one was resisting that change, just as no one will resist the chip.
The chip will be demanded... not forced.
And truth be known, it would make alot of things easier... much like check cards did.
It's the fact that you and I and all of us can be controlled by it.
It's who is trying to control us that is the problem.
If you forget to pay a traffic fine... bamm they turn off your chip...
Now you can't buy food, pay rent... anything.
If you are assumed guilty of some offense... bamm turn off the chip.
The chip has good points, but the bad far outweigh the good.
And yes I know. you are all good people with nothing to hide.

reply to post by DazedDave


Does a loss of freedom not bother you at all? Constant monitoring, and the ability to**SNIP**over your life with a simple off button?

No Profanity Please


[edit on 16-9-2007 by Crakeur]


[edit on 16-9-2007 by elevatedone]

double post, please delete.

[edit on 16-9-2007 by DazedDave]

reply to post by bigbert81




Loss of freedom how exactly? Loss of freedom to break the law? Cause that's basically what I wouldn't be allowed to do anymore...I have nothing to hide. They can monitor me all they want. I'm not a terrorist, I'm not an extremist. I'm a regular dude and I have nothing to fear.

Well to quote the words of one Ronnie Biggs 'No one is innocent'. By that quote I mean we are all guilty in small ways of breaking minor laws we dont even know exist.

Ever walked on the grass when it says 'keep off'?

Ever got more change than your supposed to from a purchase and not mentioned it?

Ever Been drunk in a public place..?

These are of course just random examples and not things I do or have done on a regular basis. The point I'm making is a simple one. Handing control to a goverment in any country is a big thing, because your not just handing control over to the current goverment, but future ones as well.

No one can say what is around the corner politically in any country 20 years from now with absolute certainty. Maybe another Hitler type figure marching people off into death camps? Maybe not, I can't see the future and if anyone can...they aren't saying.

I dont commit crimes, take drugs..hell right now I dont even drink. I'm a polite standard member of society. Does that make me 'innocent and have nothing to fear'? No, no one is innocent. Thats my view and I have to say I dont like the idea of anyone knowing exactly where I am and what I'm doing every second of the day.

I value my privacy not because I have anything to hide (although I'm certain everyone has at least one thing they wouldn't want the whole world to know about), but rather because I like to have times when I can be confortable in my own thoughts and self without any concern about being monitored constantly.

Granted with camneras on streets becoming more and more prevelant to some degree you are montired anyway, but why should I make it so I HAVE to be? Should I make it easy for any future political nutcase that may or may not appear? I think not.


Wayne...

WELCOME to reality! You have just taken the first lonely steps toward the real freedom, the freedom that cannot be manipulated nor denied to those individuals who have the courage and soul to step outside the confines of the dream existence that has been thrust on them by society from birth. There is no denying you will find these kinds of attitudes a plenty as you progress on the path to deny ignorance. It is much more rare to find people of like mind. Just continue to live and grow and be grateful that you are not a shut and closed case... You cannot expect to change anyone, but sometimes by example that is what happens on its own accord. Love your sister for who she is and respect her for where she is. And throw yourself a little party and celebrate your uniqueness!

reply to post by DazedDave


I don't think it would be a loss of freedom in the general sense. It would however open a wide variety of doors for monitoring activities of people.

Would it be able to detect if one was under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

If it had GPS, would it be able to track your speed?

Would it have the ability to uplink with law enforcement to notify them of your infractions?

Who would have access to the above information and what kind of security would be needed to keep the chip from being hacked by individuals with criminal intentions?

I don't think anyone needs to know what I do or where I'm at 24 hours a day. I also don't think the government could handle all the information generated by these chips.
They made a typo on my selective service card when i was 18. After many years of trying to get it changed, I still get documents with my name spelled incorrectly and the adress they keep sending it to is about 10 years old. Go figure.

reply to post by DazedDave


I don't think it would be a loss of freedom in the general sense. It would however open a wide variety of doors for monitoring activities of people.

Would it be able to detect if one was under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

If it had GPS, would it be able to track your speed?

Would it have the ability to uplink with law enforcement to notify them of your infractions?

Who would have access to the above information and what kind of security would be needed to keep the chip from being hacked by individuals with criminal intentions?

I don't think anyone needs to know what I do or where I'm at 24 hours a day. I also don't think the government could handle all the information generated by these chips.
They made a typo on my selective service card when i was 18. After many years of trying to get it changed, I still get documents with my name spelled incorrectly and the adress they keep sending it to is about 10 years old. Go figure.

sorry for the double post. My mouse is smoking crack again.

I think the big issue here with 'data mining' (as I beleive it is called) is not so much Orwellian dramas about thought police and such, it is more the fact that it will not be too long before you start getting junk mail from... lets say Walmart, because they have noticd that you spend a certain amount of time on xxx ailse in their store. How would you like to buy yyy? This could be because they have access to, lets say, the information readable off your RFID ID card in your wallet. Of course, let's fast forward in time and step down some rabbit holes this same technology can be used by oppressive police states to track your movement.

OK, how many of us have mobile phones? You can be tracked by them in a far more efficient manner than by RFID but then as an earlier poster pointed out (sorry I can't remember who) this will not be pushed onto the population at least at first. Packaging with consumer goods is probably the best - since you get to pay for them as well!

The scenarios described with buttons being 'pushed' are not that far from the truth. If you need an ID card to claim social security or welfare payments then it will be a requirement to swipe your card to get your cash. No card - No cash.

A strong argument (which I don't strictly deny) is that if you are doing no wrong then all will be good. This is true but of course this depends upon your definition of 'wrong'. Lets say you are a freedom fighter in a country that has been invaded. You are on the run and the oppressive invading force has sealed off your aid from friends and your means of movement, obtaining goods and services has been cut off by cancelling your card. What would you do?

or on the other hand you are an 'insurgent' in your land and the rightful government, supported by your Ally and liberator from the previous hated oppressive regime...

Define wrong and then define misuse by the governemnt - I pass no judgement here (honest) but really it is a lot simpler if we all have one less thing to worry about.

Who is to say that we haven't already been microchiped? Can you account for every second of your life? Who is to say that when we went it for our routine wisdom teeth removal or the likes, that something wasn't planted in us while we were knocked out?

reply to post by DazedDave


Yes, loss of freedom to break the law. Does that not tell you that therefore they can make whatever law they want to, and actually FORCE you to abide by it. Where do the limits stop? There are already new laws and acts that take away from our Constitutional rights, how much further will, and can they go?

This of course not to mention loss of privacy...

When someone thinks like this, I simply tell them the 1000's of every day events and objects that kill far more people each year then terrorists every could dream to do.

Here's some:
* More people are killed annually by donkeys than die in air crashes.
* Over 2500 left handed people a year are killed from using products made for right handed people!
* American Citizens murder more then 20000 people each year.

I am not as concerned about the chip as I am about the time when they will decide they have discovered the gene that causes you to be a abnormal human or defective, the psycho killer gene.

Then they detect it at birth and you are either removed from normal society or eliminated to protect others..

Or when they start altering our genetic code and we all become clones of one another..the perfect human.

I see the chip as inevitable. They can implant the sucker in me, but they cant make me think or act differently.

There are so many things our government does now that I detest, but in the end it is not enough for me to dislike it for it to stop. The only real power I have is to shape my children to be free thinkers and for fear to never ever rule my moral decisions in life.