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UFOs: The Final Solution

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posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 06:17 AM
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These are the main theories on what UFOs are:

Earthly Objects:

a) Natural Phenomena
b) Conventional Manmade Craft (Balloons, Planes, etc.)
c) Advanced Man Made Craft (Secret Government Projects, Nazi-UFOs, etc.)


Extraterrestrial and Innerterrestrial Objects:

a) Advanced Craft from outer space and other planets - good aliens, space brothers
b) Advanced Craft from outer space and other planets - evil aliens, cosmic conspiracy
c) Advanced Craft from outer sprache and other planets - neither good nor evil or undefined
b) Advanced Craft from civilisations inside earth

Interdimensional & Perceptual-Psychological Objects:

a) Time Travellers from the Future (Alien Time Travellers)
b) Time Travellers from the Future (Humans)
c) Beings from other planets that de-materialize and re-materialize here (no interstellar travel instead inter-dimensional travel)
d) Hallucinations created by the brain
c) Beings from other dimensions that can only be perceived in a certain state of mind / state of being.


This thread was opened because I am happy to openly consider and discuss any of these options. Being open-minded means to be able to consider any of the possibilities mentioned above. "True believers" must consider that they might be wrong, and "true sceptics" must consider that they might be wrong.

As time progresses I will post various data to support each of these theories.

From ATS posters I would LOVE to see a ranking of the three categories as to their probability. My personal bias is:

1. Interdimensional/Perceptual
2. Extraterrestrial
3. Earthly Objects

Of course ALL of these options could be involved, but what is the most probable for you when it comes to UFO and alien-beings sightings?




posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 06:29 AM
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I kind of agree with your "Interdimensional & Perceptual-Psychological Objects" group and I often think we might learn more after our deaths if not in this life. But I still have a nagging wonder if there's a military element to it all too. Perhaps they've discovered the sercets we're still trying to find out?

[edit on 13-9-2007 by wigit]



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 06:39 AM
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Well, I can tell you one thing: I want my "final solution". I am not going to spend the rest of my days browsing through internet forums accumulating unanswered questionmarks in my head. If government is involved I want to know and very soon.

The Theories "Interdimensional" and "Government Objects" are underreported in the media and at ATS. The Theories "ETs" and "Hoaxes/Natural Explanations" are overreported in the media and on ATS. Underreported stuff interests me, because the mass-consensus-opinion is, as history has shown, usually the flawed opinion.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 



From ATS posters I would LOVE to see a ranking of the three categories as to their probability. My personal bias is:

1. Interdimensional/Perceptual
2. Extraterrestrial
3. Earthly Objects


My take for a Ranking is:
1. Military craft
2. Birds
3. Insects
4. Planets
5. Stars
...etc.
10. Spent satellites, falling back to earth
25. Comets, meteors
...
30. Perceptual anomalies (visions, hallucinations, waking dreams)
40. Physical craft of non-terrestrial origin
50. Interdimensional

IOW, 'paranormal' explanations are -very- far down on the list.

Now, having said that, I'm not specifically talking 'probabilities', just that I'd investigate those other explanations and try to rule out terrestrial or prosaic reasons first.

Where skeptics make a mistake is assigning 'believability' to these choices.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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The cases for each theory


1. UFOs are natural phenomena or man made conventional objects.

It is probably very often the case that something flying in the sky that cant be immediatly categorized is mis-interpreted. Just because something is "unidentified" does not mean its an alien aircraft. Add to that the deliberate hoaxes (false photos) and this probably accounts for up to half of all sightings. Why not more than half? Because people are not THAT stupid and because UFOs are normally associated with silver flying discs or silver cigar or triangle shaped objects which are indeed not part of our known conventional craft.


2. UFOs are secret Government aircraft

If this is the case it of course does not rule out ET or IT craft. It could even be that the Governments got their ideas from ETs or ITs. The original case for this theory were the rumours of Nazi-UFOs in world war II. It is an established fact that Nazis did have some unusual aircraft that were once labelled "unidentified" by enemy pilots. Example: "The Foo Fighters". The disc-shaped Nazi craft is only rumoured, although pictures of such craft do exist and official documents of construction plans. (source is a book called "Man Made UFOs"). I havent read books like "Aliens from the Pentagon" but it is rumoured that the U.S. Government builds flying saucers. Many years ago I read an article in the N.Y. Times showing how the CIA seems to have actually published some books on "space aliens" themselves...in a possible attempt to divert from their own saucers?


3. UFOs are extraterrestrials, space brothers, evil aliens etc.

The case for this one is that many abductees say so and that its reasonable to assume other life on other planets. Not only the abductees say so but many who present themselves as aliens say so. Still there are a few things that speak against the ET-theory: We have been educated in the "space brothers" and "evil aliens" scenarious by television, movies and science-fiction for decades. So maybe we are only projecting our own hopes and fears that we have borrowed from movie-fantasies. Another thing is that it is probably not feasible to travel from planet to planet without any interdimensional means whatsoever. Furthermore, the nature of the abductee experience has many psychological, half-sleep-state, sleep-paralysis, perceptional, interdimensional (missing time) elements to it so it might not be a purely physical phenomenon. In any case, the idea of "evil aliens to attack us" and "space brothers to help us" seem more like human projections of hopes and fears than based in fact. While I conclude that it might be ETs in those craft, I dont think that they travel and operate purely by physical, 3-Dimensional means. Nevertheless a majority of UFO-Literature promotes the ET theory.

4. UFOs are interdimensional, psychologically-related or time-travelling craft.

Researcher Jacques Vallee was probably the main proponent of this idea. Another good book on this is called "Grand Illusions" by Gregory Little.

I will make outline the case for this in the next post. to be continued...



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 10:32 AM
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Good posts!

Back in the early days, pre-flight, a 'daylight disk' or a 'nighttime light' would be reasonable 'proof' for something non-ordinary, possibly even non-terrestrial. Obviously, besides birds and flying mammals, objects showing a clear 'flight-path' are quite suspicious and worthy of investigation. Note they still had balloons and kites.

Once we started putting up aircraft, and then satellites, all bets are off. It's extremely likely that any 'discs' or 'lights' are explainable in ordinary terms; if not a natural phenomenon, lighting, meteors, comets, debris, then it's a craft or a device or an effect under the control of humans.

Then, when we became aware of UAV (unmanned) craft, and of vectored-thrust craft, you can't really even say that a bizarre or extreme fight path of a daylight disk or night time light constitutes a need to propose and ET explanation.

As far as the ET-Alien connection, that's an additional step.

Don't you think we have the technology to convince someone, especially those living in underdeveloped areas that an alien craft flew in and landed and ET came out and abducted them?

I bet a Hollywood studio could do that.

Just combine the techniques of 'stage magic' with some high tech and military help and you've got no problems.

In fact, you could even 'set up' the victims. It would take planning and forethought, but using stage magic principles you could create such a convincing story that skeptics and believers alike would jump on board.

I'd just back-engineer a 'real event'.

I'd want:

Physical traces, both craft and abductee, including some rare metal implantation that could be recovered and show a micro structure. Scientists would say 'PROOF', never seen before micro structure, and so on. Of course we'd have the top minds at Darpa, NSA, IBM/Intel and other places create these, so they'd be ahead of your average scientist by about 10 years.

Actual craft photographed by multiple cameras, different types, different lighting - this would be set up to be impossible to photochop (well as close to impossible as we could get).

Pictures of aliens (if not bodies). Easily doable if exposure is short and if stage magic principles are used, also.

Bodies? N/P. Remember the g-mint is in on it, so they'd just snatch the bodies and then later say they were.

What does that mean? Well, to me, any future alien events would be highly suspect and 'staged events' would probably be indistinguishable from 'real' ET events. We can 'fake up' anything that a classic abduction event calls for. Any gaps and the press and the military can gloss those over and make us believe.

Kinda worrisome.

In fact because of the danger of declaration of martial law, I'd MUCH rather the g-mint would be on the side of skeptics. Disclaiming an ET hypothesis might be harmful to the 'abductees' if it's actually happening, but the effects on society are probably minimized, don't you think. (I'm not saying I'm in favor of it, lol, and of course there are other problems when the g-mint is lying to its citizens)

2 cents.


[edit on 13-9-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 04:39 PM
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great contribution badge01. thanks. you make a good case that hollywood could, with some budget, easily stage the entire thing. dont ask me why they would do that, but they could do it. but if they (government) ARE doing it, then they must be drugging the victims who report unusual perception, missing time and other weirdness.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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...continued from older post.

4. UFOs are interdimensional, psychologically-related or time-travelling craft.

Researcher Jacques Vallee was probably the main proponent of this idea. Another good book on this is called "Grand Illusions" by Gregory Little. The reasons this is valid is because of time-anomalies, de-materialization-anomalies experienced by witnesses and abductees in connection to UFOs. The UFO and Alien Phenomenon does have a spiritual dimension to it. Some others call them "visitors from within". Others believe you can summon certain types of aliens. Yet others make fun of regular Ufologists who they call "nuts and bolts ufologists"...those who only believe in the physical/material universe and that these ETs actually travel these mind-boggling distances without the help of interdimensional means. My own UFO experiences always occured when I was in an unusual state of mind, such as deep relaxation or sleep paralysis. These is why I tend to believe in this fourth theory the most.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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And finally two theories I have absolutely no case for but which should be mentioned for completeness sakes:

5. UFOs from Inside Earth.
I guess this is similar to the ET-theory except that they are UTs. According to the rumours there are highly advanced cities such as shambalah under the earths surface and they ocassionally use disc-shaped craft to fly around to check out us surface dwellers. Hints at this might lie in sightings of UFOs that went into the water or into a mountain.

6. UFOs dont exist, its all a covert social-engineering project or a mass-delusion.

In a thread where no possibility is ruled out, this must also be considered. Has social-engineering by means of disinformation taken place in history? It certainly has. Have mass-delusions taken place? Yes they have. Remember "Invasation from Mars" the Orson Welles radio-show that created a mass-panic?

I think this completes the list of all theories.

The name of this thread is "The Final Solution" because I aim at really getting to the bottom of all this. Help and support appreciated!



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 08:12 PM
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I say there is a little truth to all you have posted.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by TheInfamousOne
I say there is a little truth to all you have posted.


so, you are saying that UFOs are government-craft, extraterrestrial-craft, interdimensional-craft, inner-earth-craft, hallucinations, natural phenomena, hallucinations, psychological projections, angels, demons and weather balloons?

that might just be the final solution



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by Badge01

[My take for a Ranking is:
1. Military craft



Highly interesting that you rank Military Craft as No.1. How did you arrive at this view?



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 07:15 AM
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wow , a lot of strange threads lately [stranger than the usual topics in the UFO forums] .
people seem fascinated with UFOs more than anything else.
the suspense is more exciting than the actual truth.
"Final solution" to what problem...?

what if UFOs exist so what. if they wanted to contact the general public dont you think they would have done so?
why do people keep guessing and devoting time to this;
what if they come forward and hi. and keep going about their business...
that wont change anything people. they're not going to beam us to Andromeda and give us eternal life, they wont cure the world from ailments . find more answers to bigger questions... like Why Putin fired his entire cabinet, and US and Russia are testing bombs left and right, and top officials from japan Russia and Australia are resigning one after the other...
why are nukes coming up missing, why is Syria suspected amassing nuclear capabilities.
you need to find a final solution to why there was no plane Debris at the Pentagon on 9/11 , go and question your government, ETs are far better off than us. and to deny their existence now is just foolish. its shame to see how Hollywood brainwashed us into thinking they would come forward and say "we come in peace" and save the world [or destroy it...].

and if you still think unidentified objects are "birds" or dust" or military crafts here is video

Google Video Link



[edit on 14-9-2007 by omi_kron_gravitron]


[edit on 14-9-2007 by omi_kron_gravitron]



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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thanks for the nice vids.

still, your post is off-topic. this thread doesnt discuss UFOs as a solution to problems but summarizes ALL UFO-Theories discussed on ATS into one thread....for comparitive research, comparitive discussion.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by omi_kron_gravitron

. find more answers to bigger questions... like Why Putin fired his entire cabinet, and US and Russia are testing bombs left and right, and top officials from japan Russia and Australia are resigning one after the other... why are nukes coming up missing, why is Syria suspected amassing nuclear capabilities.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by omi_kron_gravitron]


[edit on 14-9-2007 by omi_kron_gravitron]


Those are not the "bigger questions". Those are the questions dictated to you by mass-media. Mass-media dictates to you what is important and what not. I dont obey mass-media and say that the topic of cosmic consciousness, UFOs and aliens is more important.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Skyfloating]



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Those are not the "bigger questions". Those are the questions dictated to you by mass-media. Mass-media dictates to you what is important and what not. I dont obey mass-media and say that the topic of cosmic consciousness, UFOs and aliens is more important.


sorry is i went off topic. and no, i dont get my info from "mass" media.
i just think there are more immediate issues the human population should deal with first. and i think that is one of the reasons ETs have not come forward. because they observe us and see our nature.
if i went to a foreign planet, and i saw war, killing, hunger, pollution, hate crimes, questionable governments, all all the bad things radiates around this crumbling civilization; i too would hesitate to show myself . and i would definitely no allow a race like that to leave their home planet, even if it was a dying planet. because i would not want them to spread their "nature" in the galaxy, where more advanced and peaceful civilizations may reside. did you ever think of that. see, your own government keeps the truth from you and forces you to seek answers from on-line forums and ufo enthusiasts communities. this goes to show you what our intent really serves us. [ever wondered why there hasnt been another man -ed ission to the moon; imagine what it takes to fund the war in iraq, so dont tell me the government cant fund another manned-space mission.]

and No, no one can argue that all UFO videos are hoaxes, or balloons, or government crafts, or mysterious phenomena; though a bunch of them are hoaxes. again this shows are true nature, we mislead and trick eachother for financial gains, or just for "fun" and publicity. - a bulk of the videos show these are intelligent creatures and crafts.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 03:43 PM
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well, believe it or not, I agree that that is the reason "they" dont intervene and dont show themselves fully or only show themselves to a few. the planet IS still a bit immature.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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I´m coming clean on extraterrestrials



What started my whole inquiry into all UFO-theories were personal experiences I had, mainly as a child. I probably finished reading most of the above mentioned topics at the age of 14. It is only recently that I started looking into the subject again.

At the age of 4 I used to scream bloody murder because I didnt want to go to bed. This went on for months and my parents didnt know what to do. Whats interesting is that my abductions would take place in the state between waking and sleeping. They had a dream-like-quality, but they also left real physical bruises...which my parents told me about. My parents also told me that at the age of 4 & 5 I described aliens, drew pictures of aliens, talked about aliens...this was before the age I had read any books about them. I recall feeling trapped, being taken against my will. The visits were accompanied by strange humming sounds.

Later, around the around the age of 8 and 9 I had a phase were I had very pleasant ET experiences. At this age I was also "taken" but I was shown things and places and experienced feelings and states that I looked forward to. Some of the planets I was taken to I visited in nightdreams. But these nightdreams were so vivid and "more real than real" that I do not see them as normal dreams. The beauty witnessed left me with tears of joy after waking up.

At the age of 11 I saw a silver craft right outside my window.

The abductions stopped, the dreams stopped but in the course of my llife I have ocassionally seen flying discs and craft performing strange manouvers.

Because of these personal experiences many of the books I read (pro and con) dont ring true, dont feel true, dont look true. The interdimensional theory seems the most valid for me.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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The case for the theory that UFOs are interdimensional phenomena that are related to consciousness/perception and non-physical:


* A majority of UFO sightings happened after 1947, after the possibility of UFOs was implanted in mass-consciousness.

* 7 years ago I saw an UFO in broad daylight. But the people standing beside me didnt see one.

* Most UFO-abduction stories involve "missing time", sudden materialization and de-materialization of craft and aliens.

These are only a few points that let me doubt in conventional Ufology.
But most people arent even on base 1 yet, believing UFOs and aliens dont exist. Once they get to base 2 that they do exist, the will, imo, start exploring base 3 which is the interdimensional theory.



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