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What to make of this ? Is it muscle flexing?

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posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by aaaaa
Funny stuff, Maestro.


Hey, thanks man. No encore? aw. Such a great guy, he even wished me luck with that re-unification thing.


Originally posted by aaaaa
You may want to check out Snopes for that space pen story; Fisher pens came up with it on it's own, NASA did not. Your prize story is Bullsh*t.


Lol it happened didn't it? So I said NASA instead of Fisher pens or whatever - it still happened. It's not bull#.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Seriously, if "The Cobra" was so deadly, where is the client state shoot-down to point to?


Anyone else here ever heard of deadly air manouvers? It's a manouver, plain and simple. It increases the planes preformance and capability to be deadlier. If you can't comprehend yourself what it would mean in a fight if the plane you were chasing just stalled in mid air, let you pass by, then end up on your six, then I'm at a loss for words. Also if you don't realize how much easier this manouver makes it to evade missiles or missile locks...I don't know how to help you. But if you do understand, and still think this is useless, doesn't seem to me like you have the slightest grasp of air combat.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Yeah, I could shoot down a F-117 too if the flight plan was identical every flight.


If they kept flying in identical paths - that's VERY careless of the USAF. I stress again, this happened (ironicaly) right after the USAF declared it "impossible to be shot down". Inferior Russian good for nothing outdated tech brought down an F-117. The pen story was just for laughs pal, this is my prize story. As for you shooting down an F-117..... Look, I don't really know you, or anything about you, but I still put my money on it being a very good laugh watching you try to shoot down an F-117.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Racism is something the Russians excel at; so is screwing thier customers, who would not be buying thier neanderthal equipment (AK's excepted)...


Racism is what Russians excel at? While sadly racism did rise to rather alarming hights after the collapse of the USSR, befor that Russia was far from racist compared to what happened in most of the world. I always find it fun to see how Americans like you are quick to point a finger at racism in Russia, however, while ignoring the history of racism and intolorence of the US. I visited an Indian reservation in the Washington state this summer, you should go have a look at what the Indians are reduced to now-a-days, and how they were brought into that state of being from who they were befor. Then there's the long period of slavery in the US during which the black man is considered sub-human. Racism, even to this day is big in the US, you shouldn't be pointing fingers. FYI Russia is the supplier of 80% of the coal in Eurpoe. Europe finds us to be a very good buisness partner actually....so do plenty of other countries. Oh, befor I forget, care to remind me which state it was that was traded from the Indians for a bunch of beads?


Originally posted by aaaaa
I can locate Georgia on the map, as well, although it's an old atlas and shows that it USED TO BE pat of the Soviet Union.


I'm not surprised you needed a map, but atleast you were honest. I'm not surprised you needed a map to figure out it used to be in the USSR either. I'm still trying to figure out why you are trying to point that out to me in bold letters. Sadly howeever, I didn't ask you if you knew where Georgia was on the map, I asked about Abkhazia. Are you trying to say a part of Georgia wants to be part of Russia because it liked it back in the days of the USSR? That's just ridiculous.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Keep up the spying; that, the price of oil, and scared psuedo-marxists in China the only reason Mother Russia is still remotely in the game.


Mother Russia is still around, despite all the efforts to put it on it's knees. Spying is something every country does, no clue why any country deserves a finger pointed at it for spying. But honestly, what do scared psuedo-marxist chinese and oil prices have to do with anything? I suppose credit to CNN is due yet again for the right, unbiased point of view some Americans have of this world.


Originally posted by aaaaa
As always, a pleasure to be communicating with you on the American invented internet!


Iskander took the pleasure of communicating to you about the creation of the Internet. With that said, what is it with Americans like you always using this remark. What, I owe you something now? How many things do you take for granted that were invented by other countries....actually what do you know about other countries and what they contributed to the world? I suggest you use something other then an outdated atlas to find out.

So people don't get the wrong idea, I don't hate America. I think alot of Americans are great people, and I like alot of things about America itself (which may not be apparent to people on this site since I often make comments against the US). If I didn't I wouldn't come to visit it often for one. A large fraction of my friends are Americans, in or out of America. But some people in the US who don't have the slightest idea of the rest of the world (and sometimes not even alot about the US's past) sit back and scream that the US is #1 and everyone else is scum who doesn't agree with US's policies, they're the people I really don't like. It's these kind of people that really put a spot on America's image in my opinion. If you happen to be an American who doesn't fit the negative category I described, and are offended by my posts, I am sorry.

Regards,
Maestro

[edit on 1-10-2007 by maestro46]




posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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Iskander,

"Talegate flagwaving bud guzzling ignorance" ?
False. I no longer drink bud.

"Jena 6" ?
I support racial equality. I oppose allowing aggressive, thrice repeating violent criminals a pass for thier actions. I don't really think Americans that practice descrimination constitute any more than a single digit
portion of the population. I suppose we have a lot to learn from the way enlightened European and middle east countries segregate immigrents
and refugees into camps and discourage assimilation into thier societies. I for one always enjoy learning from my betters in this respect. I'm sure the slave trading going on in Sudan and tacitly supported by the Chinese is a better solution than American society's. I think you assume I am a Euro-American instead of a person of color. Assume away.

I'm sure my knowledge of geography is inferior to yours.

Last time I checked, the China is still ruled by the Communist Party, that continues the proud traditions of violence against thier citizens, limiting access to information, free speech and politcal opposition, while adopting
state capitalism as it's official religion. If you disagree with that you might want to take it up with people who do business there.

As to the internet, everyone knows that was invented by Al Gore.

Maestro,

Well played! You got the Fisher Pen story dead wrong and essentially said "so what?" (BTW, Fisher made a lot of money on that pen.)

"Deadly Air Manouver!" I have to admit, that statement accompanied with all the "you-ignorant-jingoist" snark was laugh out loud funny. The only thing a Cobra is deadly for is the pilot that pulls it. I would have thought the volume of thread activity on this topic on ATS weapons and aviation forums would convince anybody of that by now. Go ahead, put on your white scarf, spin the prop and get on the 12 o'clock of that bogie, airman!

"Russia a good business partner?" O.K., I guess British Petroleum would have issues with that, as well as a long list of companies that made the mistake of not providing due consideration to Putin's KGB decended buddies.

Returning to the original topic, yes, muscle flexing by threats, Polonium cocktails, journalist assasination, buying western European polititians, claiming the North Pole, and bringing out magic missiles immune to interception by the arrogant Yankees amount to that.

Not that there's anything wrong with Americans, I'm sure that some of them are your best friends...



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by aaaaa

Maestro,

Well played! You got the Fisher Pen story dead wrong and essentially said "so what?" (BTW, Fisher made a lot of money on that pen.)


Um, wrong on the guys that spent the cash on it, I wasn't missing the point was I. But you seem alot more capable at responding to jokes about pens and air manouvers much more then to anything else I post, what's up?


Originally posted by aaaaa
"Deadly Air Manouver!" I have to admit, that statement accompanied with all the "you-ignorant-jingoist" snark was laugh out loud funny.


Wait! He does love me after all!


Originally posted by aaaaa
The only thing a Cobra is deadly for is the pilot that pulls it. I would have thought the volume of thread activity on this topic on ATS weapons and aviation forums would convince anybody of that by now. Go ahead, put on your white scarf, spin the prop and get on the 12 o'clock of that bogie, airman!


Yhea I've seen the ATS threads, I've seen others too.

forums.frugalsworld.com...

www.f-16.net...

There you go, some pretty good discussions on the Cobra. Yhea, a few people come and claim its crap. What these dicussions boil down to however is that it's another trick up your sleeve. Gives you that one extra option in certain situations. It also demonstrates the great maneuverability of the aircraft. Frankly you can read the links yourself, and you really should.

Plain and simple - it's not "useless" as you keep saying. Yhea certain people tend to overate it, I'm well aware. Just because people give it more credit then needed doesn't mean it's useless, on the contrary it can come in very handy.


Originally posted by aaaaa
"Russia a good business partner?" O.K., I guess British Petroleum would have issues with that, as well as a long list of companies that made the mistake of not providing due consideration to Putin's KGB decended buddies.


BP? Oh am I glad you chose this topic. A very good friend of mine works in BP/TNK (the two are partners). He works on the TNK side, but he is an American. I'm well aware of the problems BP faced as they started doing buisness with Russia, but I'm curious to see if you actually know what you're talking about....or are you just feeding me what you've seen as a headline?

Keep in mind, by the way, that doing buisness with the Russian goverment is a very different story then doing buisness with Russian companies. Which one are you talking about?

"Putin's KGB decended buddies". +1 to the "scared psuedo-marxist chinese etc" pile. Yes Putin was in the KGB, yes the FSB is what the KGB was....yes a whole bunch of people in Russia worked for the goverment of the USSR and it's military. What the hell is your point? Is it their fault that they're still alive and must work somewhere to live? It honestly makes my day when people make this remark. Tell me aaaaa what comes into your mind when you think of a KGB opperative, or an ex-KGB? I know a few, they're very smart people. They're not, as you all picture them, bent on communism and Stalin. Now the NKVD were like that, but that's not the KGB for you. KGB paranoia is general idiocy.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Returning to the original topic, yes, muscle flexing by threats, Polonium cocktails, journalist assasination, buying western European polititians, claiming the North Pole, and bringing out magic missiles immune to interception by the arrogant Yankees amount to that.


Oh no, don't stray from the origional topic guys. I mean, take a second or two to run four lines of general unrelated bashing on Russia, but heavens no, do not stray from the topic. Nice one bro. I feel loved.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Not that there's anything wrong with Americans, I'm sure that some of them are your best friends...


Yhea, I tend to seperate Americans from arrogant Yankees.

Regards,
Maestro



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:37 PM
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Maestro,
Are you running a straw man factory?
Your assumptions about what I believe can not be substantiated by anything written by me. You seem instead to be intent on making my points for me.
The threads you cited support my position that the Cobra is an airshow stunt. If you have to reach that far down in your "bag of tricks" it's likely that you have already been blown to very small pieces by a missile fired from an aircraft you have not yet aquired on radar.
Did I ever state that Russian intellegence types were stupid or collectivist?
No. Evil and cunning? Hell, yes.
Distinguishing between state controlled and "private" business in Russia is a matter of defining what constitutes honest graft in a society berift of the advantage of an independant judiciary or the rule of law. Apophical stories from friends aside, consider:

www.iht.com...
www.wattsgoingon.com...

Speaking of definations, "Yankee" and "American" mean differnt things domestically than abroad.

Here, you would be considered a Yankee!









posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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ATS, lets look at this from a different prospective:

When the USSR collapsed, it didn't become Russia. It didn't become anything, it vanished. Russia was where it originated, but looking at the civil war that followed you can tell it wasn't a popular decision to begin with. After the USSR collapsed what was once a massive military split along with the satalite states. A new totaly new mentality and economy was introduced, a new way of life. It started all over, right from zero. This is why through the 90s the US didn't give a rat's tail about Russia, or it's military (which Russia didn't have the money to fund anyways at that time). After 2000 things got moving finally. The country finally adjusted to the new life it was living, and the economy began to rise. Many things came out of this, not just increased funds for the military, but since we are in a weapons forum we will only take a look at that aspect.

Russian military funds rise: increased military training and drills, radars brought back online on the border, the technology projects that were frozen due to lack of funds were restored, planes broght back into the air. Introducing up-to-date tech into the military finally came about, and tech that was stored away was brought back.

Guys the dismantled state of the Russian military in the 90s was hardly due to Gorbachev's pro capitalist policies, it was because of lack of funds, and the US knew this well, but didn't care.

The factories and the economy came alive sooner then expected I guess, but honestly this is not Russia trying to rebuild the old soviet war machine, it's simply getting back up on it's feet. With the fact that they now have a good enough economy, they stand up to the US (as well as others) in areas where they clash interests. Yeltsin has been a good little doggy see. Every country is allowed to persue their interests.

My point is this: Russia is flexing muscles, by all means it's trying to show it does not want to be messed with. But for the large part what it seems to me that you guys interprit as "muscle flexing" is mostly Russia simply comming alive again. It's a bit of both. Weather you guys think all this new military stuff from Russia is crap or not....that's a different subject.

Regards,
Maestro



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by aaaaa
Maestro,
Are you running a straw man factory?
Your assumptions about what I believe can not be substantiated by anything written by me. You seem instead to be intent on making my points for me.


Point out the assumptions.....or is that one below about Russian inteligence types the only one? I'll get to that one in a sec.


Originally posted by aaaaa
The threads you cited support my position that the Cobra is an airshow stunt. If you have to reach that far down in your "bag of tricks" it's likely that you have already been blown to very small pieces by a missile fired from an aircraft you have not yet aquired on radar.


You didn't read the threads did you, or at least you only read the "bag of tricks" post. Yhea there's people on those forums that are like you - just post the "it's crap" comments and leave. Evaluate all the posts there why don't you. There's good explanations in those links for why it would be bad AND good, and how so. Please read them over and save me the trouble of qouting every damn one, will you?



Originally posted by aaaaa
Did I ever state that Russian intellegence types were stupid or collectivist?
No. Evil and cunning? Hell, yes.


Umm, did I say you did? No, I asked what you thought of them. You don't read carefully at all do you? Now that you answer the question - "Evil and cunning"....you sound like you have the same @@ of some radical jihadist screaming the US is the work of the devil.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Distinguishing between state controlled and "private" business in Russia is a matter of defining what constitutes honest graft in a society berift of the advantage of an independant judiciary or the rule of law. Apophical stories from friends aside, consider:

www.iht.com...
www.wattsgoingon.com...


Yhea, when all else fails bring on the big vocab. As for these links, I can't read what the heck is in the second one, script is way too small. The top one I'm familiar with. But befor you decide to pelt me with big words again, do try and stay on the subject


See here:
.
.
...
.

Originally posted by aaaaa
The excuse commonly offered on this board regarding the failure of thier military equipment in real-world situations is that Russians are not operating it or that these countries are not buying the same grade as the Russians use themselves. This strikes me as both racist and irrational.


This is the kind of buisness me and you are discussing, the goverment kind. I wasn't asking you if this was defined by "what constitutes honest graft in a society berift of the advantage of an independant judiciary or the rule of law." Weaponry mate. Send me a PM if you want to talk more about BP, I'll be glad to.


Originally posted by aaaaa
Speaking of definations, "Yankee" and "American" mean differnt things domestically than abroad.
Here, you would be considered a Yankee!


Yhea but see, you really need to read carefully.

.
.
...
.

Originally posted by aaaaa
and bringing out magic missiles immune to interception by the arrogant Yankees amount to that.


This is a quote from your post earlier. In this context the word Yankee is used with the "abroad" meaning.


Originally posted by maestro46
Yhea, I tend to seperate Americans from arrogant Yankees .


I was using your words.
AND you fail to quote the whole thing. That's screwing with the meaning of my post.


Now how about this: You make commets about intimate knowledge of countries yet you need an atlas to find the very ones you're talking about. You make racism acusations at goverment buisness and then change the topic. You try to explain to me about neanderthal tech while claiming to be able to shoot down F-117s on your own. You make comments of how America invented the Inernet like I owe you something for it, yet when asked if you know anything about what other countries ever conributed to the world you don't reply. Wait a second. You hardly replied at all. All this boiled down to a joke about the dam pen and the cobra maneuver, and BP.
You ignored the rest, which was only about more than half of the discussion, and then you try to pull my words out of context without even quoting the whole deal, and go on assuming that people are assuming about you.
Tell me, do you run a cheese factory?

Regards,
Maestro



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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"Talegate flagwaving bud guzzling ignorance" ?
False. I no longer drink bud.


Miller?


"Jena 6" ?
I support racial equality. I oppose allowing aggressive, thrice repeating violent criminals a pass for thier actions. I don't really think Americans that practice descrimination constitute any more than a single digit
portion of the population.


Think again. The ENTIRE American economy runs on slave labor. It always did, and it always will. America is a COLONY!


I for one always enjoy learning from my betters in this respect.


That’s the most important thing. I agree with you entirely.

For a good and reasonably priced beer try Henninger. It’s sold in traders Joe, and a six pack is around $5.

Other then taste, I don’t drink either Bud or Miller because of their labor practices. They abuse their employees.


I'm sure the slave trading going on in Sudan and tacitly supported by the Chinese is a better solution than American society's.


“America – made in China.” That’s the reality. WE are the ones that create demand for uncontrolled consumption. WE are the ones that don’t care about our OWN lab or laws. Any developing country WILL use slave labor unless we refuse to purchase products made with slave labor, but we DON’T, even if it hurts us.

In order to stay competitive, Russians adopted the same model by the way. After all those promises of prosperity of a democratic government and free market economy, break away Soviet republics that didn’t have oil are living far BELOW the levels of Soviet standard of living, and that’s why they go TO Russia for work.

Just like cheap Mexican labor in US, cheap labor from all kinds of ex-Soviet republics flock to construction sites, agricultural fields, markets, etc.

The promise of Western economy prosperity immediately became the reality of a global market economy, and while before people of ex-Soviet republics had opportunities of free healthcare and excellent education, now they are LOCKED in low pay jobs with out a possibility of social advancement.

That’s the reality of slavery, and the true irony of it, is that the Soviet propaganda of the 70s and 80s specifically made a point that people under Western economic model will be forced to work for low wages with out any social support, and that’s EXACTLY what happened!

Over 80% of Georgians DISPISE their US run government, because their standard of living is below that of Soviet era, and they HATE having to go to Russia in order to make a living. I spoke with Georgians PERSONALLY and that’s they told me.

Remember when Bush visited Georgia somebody through a hand grenade at him?

It’s no joke, and if the Granada didn’t malfunction, that would be it.

You who threw the grenade? A farmer.

Same thing in Ukraine and so on…


I think you assume I am a Euro-American instead of a person of color. Assume away.


Who cares what color you are? Get over your self, this is cyberspace buddy, here you are what you say, not what you look like!

Listen, if you care to, you’ll find that we have a lot more in common then you think.


Last time I checked, the China is still ruled by the Communist Party, that continues the proud traditions of violence against thier citizens, limiting access to information, free speech and politcal opposition, while adopting
state capitalism as it's official religion. If you disagree with that you might want to take it up with people who do business there.


Back in the 90s I did business with Far East Russia. Khabarovsk is on the Amur river, on the other side is China.

If you think that Chinese are communists, I’ll just put it this way; Chinese are Chinese, always have been, and always will be.


They especially don’t care what a stereotypical American mentality will label them as, because they know the most important thing, money talks, and we own them a LOT of money.


As to the internet, everyone knows that was invented by Al Gore.


LOL! So was the global worming! I wonder what did Bush invent then?


"Deadly Air Manouver!" I have to admit, that statement accompanied with all the "you-ignorant-jingoist" snark was laugh out loud funny. The only thing a Cobra is deadly for is the pilot that pulls it.


How the hell do you know that? Have you tried the Cobra maneuver? Why don’t you? Here’s a hint, purchase LockOn – “Flaming cliffs”, try for your self and then tell us?

Some of us here tried that back in the 90s.


I would have thought the volume of thread activity on this topic on ATS weapons and aviation forums would convince anybody of that by now. Go ahead, put on your white scarf, spin the prop and get on the 12 o'clock of that bogie, airman!


Rubbish, please don’t litter in the cyber space. Be kind, please keep cyber space free of rubbish, and pick up after your self!


"Russia a good business partner?" O.K., I guess British Petroleum would have issues with that, as well as a long list of companies that made the mistake of not providing due consideration to Putin's KGB decended buddies.


So Russia is not a good business partner because of it DEMOCRATICALLY elected president? Why don’t you tell the Russian people who should be their president, since it’s all about democracy and all.


Yes, he is ex-KGB, and that’s precisely why CRIMINAL oligarchs that refused to play by the rules of 21st century were either imprisoned or forced to flee the country.

I’m all for law and order, so all the power to him.


Returning to the original topic, yes, muscle flexing by threats, Polonium cocktails, journalist assasination, buying western European polititians, claiming the North Pole, and bringing out magic missiles immune to interception by the arrogant Yankees amount to that.


Geez, I guess starting TWO wars and MURDERING hundreds of thousands is just a lesson and freedom and democracy.

“Polonium cocktails”? Sure, that would be the choice any professional killer. Why not leave fingerprints, picture and a home address while at it.

“Journalist assassinations? Geez, I guess all those reporters killed in Iraq by US forces is just to let them know that it’s dangerous out there.

“Buying western Eu politicians” – Now that’s just FUNNY! US government BELONGS to CORPORATE lobby groups, and when Russian companies invest in their own lobby groups, all the sudden it’s bad? Give me a break, how’s that for HYPOCRASY!

“Claming the North Pole”? Oh shoot, and I though only Wild West type land claming was allowed! LOL! At least they are not killing off indigenous population and using biological weapons!

Those “magic missiles” are TACTICAL, and CAN NOT reach USA, while the “arrogant Yankees” are set to build an anti-ballistic missile shield designed to intercept STRATIGIC missiles.

EDUCATE YOUR SELF!

Well, here it is;


Did I ever state that Russian intellegence types were stupid or collectivist?
No. Evil and cunning? Hell, yes.


A guy that tells me about racism is a Russophobe.




Distinguishing between state controlled and "private" business in Russia is a matter of defining what constitutes honest graft in a society berift of the advantage of an independant judiciary or the rule of law.


LOL! My friend, until you did business with Russians, no amount of disjointed news reports or guidance books will clue you in on how it’s done. I know how it’s done, do you?



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 04:48 PM
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Iskander,

A few observations on your responses:

“If you think that Chinese are communists, I’ll just put it this way; Chinese are Chinese, always have been, and always will be.”

Are we speaking of the Han who speak Mandarin or all the ethnic groups who live there? I’m sure the Tibetans that have had their homeland stolen consider themselves “Chinese.” Let’s put it this way; You have chosen not to respond to the fact that the Chinese Communist Party rules the country because you can not refute it.


“How the hell do you know that? Have you tried the Cobra maneuver? Why don’t you? Here’s a hint, purchase Lock-On – “Flaming cliffs”, try for your self and then tell us? Some of us here tried that back in the 90s.”

COMEDY GOLD! Playing video games gives you a special insight into modern day real world air combat! I bow to your genius. I’m sure you’re an Ace in your own mind, your handle being "Flaming Cliff."


“Yes, he is ex-KGB, and that’s precisely why CRIMINAL oligarchs that refused to play by the rules of 21st century were either imprisoned or forced to flee the country.
I’m all for law and order, so all the power to him.”

Yes, let’s all bow down to your democratically elected fuehrer. I prefer all power to a constitutional form of government that offers people some form of legal protection against mob rule.


“Polonium cocktails”? Sure, that would be the choice any professional killer. Why not leave fingerprints, picture and a home address while at it.”

Well, yeah, that’s what they did, the point being to send a message to opponents of your pet regime living abroad. A message reinforced when Scotland Yard was told no co-operation in the investigation would be offered; "get out. "


“Those “magic missiles” are TACTICAL, and CAN NOT reach USA, while the “arrogant Yankees” are set to build an anti-ballistic missile shield designed to intercept STRATIGIC missiles.”

No, non-ballistic-terminal-flight missiles of intercontinental range are all the rage in the Russian war machine these days: english.pravda.ru...

Please note that in no thread did I disparage Slavs or ethnic Russians, just those that pull the string in the FSB/War machine apparatus that rules. The Russians and former "near abroad" people I know hate Putin, maybe that's why they live here. Glad to see you have poll numbers that indicate those people are loved in the countries mentioned.

“LOL! My friend, until you did business with Russians, no amount of disjointed news reports or guidance books will clue you in on how it’s done. I know how it’s done, do you?”

I guess I’ll have to take your word. For all I know you’re a unemployed 45 year old virgin living in your mother’s basement typing out snide invectives on chat rooms to prove your intellectual superiority. Good luck with that.



posted on Oct, 3 2007 @ 03:05 PM
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keep in mind too Russia likes to overexagerate the extend of their weapons systems and capabilities.



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 12:44 AM
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So this guy can write a sentence and post a link and I make a topic that gets nothing. Shows what people are interested in I guess....



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Zanzibar
 


LMAO, they will show off their new gadgets, like the Su47, Su37 and Mig 35's but what they dont tell you is that everytime they show them off, they are the same ones everytime..
The Russians have some awesome looking stuff but they only have one or two of these newer 3rd generation planes and attack helos.
I know Putin is using their seemingly ever growing oil revenues to bolster up his military but he cant use it all on the military, many more important things in that country need repairing first.




It’s no joke, and if the Granada didn’t malfunction, that would be it.


Yea and the grenade fell as a helpless dud among the idiots own countrymen about 30 yards shy of bush.. I guess he was to week from malnutrition to throw it very far


[edit on 10/7/2007 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
Oh come on StellarX, don’t you watch TV? Discovery Channel, History Channel, Military Channel? Ever since 2001, they all repeatedly run “documentaries” which clearly show only Anglo-American forces doing all the fighting, and they show it perfectly clear that if was in fact US military force that tipped the balance of war!

Sorry for the sarcasm.


Guilty by color association!


I ran those number a long time ago, and found that on the Western front, Allies often did not push forward when they could, and just waited for the Germans to pull more forces out to the Eastern front, while officially calling it supply line reinforcement.


What was even more striking was the policy of a wide front advance thus admitting that the us backed western allies simply lacked either the means or the willpower to risk deep penetrations and the possible resulting annihilation's the Soviets suffered while they learnt how to from the masters of maneuver warfare.

If you see orange it doesn't mean i't me!

Stellar



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 01:50 PM
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Maestro46 and others,

I dont feel guilty for what happened to the American Indians. While I dont approve of it, I dont also feel guilty. I've got news for you and other Americans. the Native Indians have more government give away programs than do other minoritys including the ability to live on the Res.
That they are not doing better cannot be laid on the collective guilt of all Americans unless most of us are dumber than a box of rocks. However the facts of the matter are that most Americans are dumber than a box of rocks and feel that they must be collectively guilty by default. Stupid people many of my fellow Americans.

Native Americans have the ability to get thier college educations paid for by the government. Dont blame me for thier problems. I dont buy it. I dont have the ability to get 100 per cent of my college education paid for by the government.

Soon in this country Illegal Aliens will have the ability to get thier educations, health care ,et al. paid for 100% by the Government...in exchange for votes of course. Neither do I feel guilty about them.
Our whorish government is only intrested in them for voting potential. Give aways are how they buy votes. It is sickening. This puts most Americans on a second hand basis in thier own country while paying first rate prices for going second class. Talk about a stupid people. Amazingly our news media seems loath to post this perspective. People who can think further than the next sound bite know this is true.

I am not intrersted in European Racism. That is Europes buisness. I am however well aware of it. Ethnic problems too. Europe has lots of baggage they are carrying from centurys back. Not intrested though I know about it. This is why I am so dubious when I see Europeans trying to lecture us about "Enlightment." It smacks of standard issue political education ..ie ..brainwashing techniques. Im not impressed with Europeans on this.
Brits too. Some of them can be quite snobby. I"m not impressed again. Obviously I am not a Anglophile.

Europe has nothing on us here stateside. Europe is a dung heap where wars and conflict are concerned. We have alot to catch up on concerning warfare. We are way behind the continent in this arena. I am not impressed with Europe here too.
The sad thing again is that most Americans are easily bamboozled by Europeans simply because of ignorance. Many of us Yanks know so little history ..even our own and what we do know about we are made to be as stated...collectively guilty. Well not me...not intrested.

I dont find the European model...enlightening at all. Especially in light of what happened recently in Yugoslavia while "Europe" fiddled.

By the way ..your posts do not offend me ...what offends me is the very ignorance of so many Americans who fall prey to such a dumb default setting as the world is wont to foist upon us. Some of us are incredibly dumb and easy to get over on because of this dumbness fingerprint on just about everything..including Americana.

Sadly ...not enough of us here can shed this fingerprint of ignorance as we get most of our education today from television and movies.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 02:09 PM
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And some people dare to think the world might not be coming to an end soon. Tools....



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by 1337cshacker
And some people dare to think the world might not be coming to an end soon. Tools....


Lol lol cshacker...if the world comes to an end it will most likely be by default settings too.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by aaaaa
 




You have chosen not to respond to the fact that the Chinese Communist Party rules the country because you can not refute it.


Sure they do, and look how prosperous China is, heck, they LEND us money for our wars.

Not to mention that the very American way of life depends on Chinese manufacturing, “America – made in China”.

So it sure looks like the Communist thing seems to be working out for them really well.


COMEDY GOLD! Playing video games gives you a special insight into modern day real world air combat! I bow to your genius. I’m sure you’re an Ace in your own mind, your handle being "Flaming Cliff."


Well, this “video game” was purchased by Air National Guard to train their A10 pilots, so I guess they are silly comedians just as I am…


Air National Guard buys a virtual “A-10C PE Desk Top Simulation” from a Russian game company!


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes, let’s all bow down to your democratically elected fuehrer.


My fuehrer? I’m a registered democrat, in US of A, not sure what you’re getting at there. You’re a hypocrite though. Yes, Putin was democratically elected, twice, and unlike Bush, Putin didn’t have to rig his elections.


I prefer all power to a constitutional form of government that offers people some form of legal protection against mob rule.


You mean a dictatorship? Well then Myanmar will be just the place for you. I hear they are doing real well on doing away with the mob rule of monks and students.

Ever felt like shooting some people while you add it?



Well, yeah, that’s what they did, the point being to send a message to opponents of your pet regime living abroad.


Really? And the proof is where? In a cheap tabloid on the same page with some hooker giving a birth to alien baby?



A message reinforced when Scotland Yard was told no co-operation in the investigation would be offered; "get out. "


Are you for real? It’s called JURISDICTION! Scotland Yard wanted an extradition of a Russian citizen with out ANY proof what so ever, all while England NEVER extradited ANYBODY EVER even in light of concrete evidence!

LOL! Ever heard of Interpol? Look into that one and why Scotland Yards “demands” were absolute nonsense.


No, non-ballistic-terminal-flight missiles of intercontinental range are all the rage in the Russian war machine these days: english.pravda.ru...


Reading is a skill, let’s practice.


R-500 tests are to be finished in 2008, whereas in 2009 these missiles will be used to equip the Iskander tactical missile systems.


Note the following; “Iskander TACTICAL missile”, it being a development of OKA. Moving on.


The ICBM , called the RS-24, was fired from a mobile launcher at the Plesetsk launch site in northwestern Russia earlier.


Two different missiles are being discussed here, tactical R-500, and ICBM RS-24, which is a

a new version of the Topol-M , first commissioned in 1997 and known as the SS-27 in the West, but one that can carry multiple independent warheads Existing Topol-M missiles are capable of hitting targets more than 6, 000 miles away.


I sure hope you get the point.


Please note that in no thread did I disparage Slavs or ethnic Russians, just those that pull the string in the FSB/War machine apparatus that rules. The Russians and former "near abroad" people I know hate Putin, maybe that's why they live here.


I’d like to welcome you to reality. Don’t worry, that tingle is just your brain getting adjusted to a propaganda free state of mind.


Putin’s Approval Remains High in Russia
May 23, 2007
81 per cent of respondents approve of Putin's performance at the country's top political job, unchanged since February.


www.angus-reid.com...

And now for our side of the pond;


How Low Can He Go?
President Bush registers the lowest approval rating of his presidency—making him the least popular president since Nixon—in the new NEWSWEEK Poll.

Only 26 percent of Americans, just over one in four, approve of the job the 43rd president is doing; while, a record 65 percent disapprove, including nearly a third of Republicans.


www.msnbc.msn.com...

Hell, maybe putting should run in our presidential election! Over 80% of Russians approve of the way he handles his job, while only 26% of our own population approves of Bushes presidential adventures.


Glad to see you have poll numbers that indicate those people are loved in the countries mentioned.


Sure thing, not a problem, enjoy!


I guess I’ll have to take your word.


That’s all you got? I’d like to reassure you that you don’t have to guess or take my word, just ask, I’ll let you know.


For all I know you’re a unemployed 45 year old virgin living in your mother’s basement typing out snide invectives on chat rooms to prove your intellectual superiority. Good luck with that.


Well if that’s “all you know”! LOL!

Now that thought wouldn’t be based on the movie called “45 year old virgin”, would it? Personally I haven’t seen it, but I heard it was all the rage with the kids.



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 




Guilty by color association!


LOL! Sorry Stellar! I got you mixed up, and I promise I won’t jump the gun on color associating in the future!



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




I dont feel guilty for what happened to the American Indians. While I dont approve of it, I dont also feel guilty. I've got news for you and other Americans. the Native Indians have more government give away programs than do other minoritys including the ability to live on the Res.


Oh no, here we go.

orangetom1999, stop now.

Unless you personally know Native Americans and been to reservations and Pow wow’s, you don’t have much to say about the topic.

I know, I’ve been and I have, but in any case this is not the place to talk about it. Fell free to start a new thread.



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 11:24 PM
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Isklander,

I believe this point was brought up along with others by Maestro46 up at the top of this page.


I visited an Indian reservation in the Washington state this summer, you should go have a look at what the Indians are reduced to now-a-days, and how they were brought into that state of being from who they were befor.


I merely reply to the posting. I am not intrested in this kind of guilt trip. It doesnt make good nonsense to me. Neither does the racism postings as I know of how many cultures feel in this regard. Once again not intrested in this either.
There are several Indian Reservations around here. One of them is the Mattaponi Indians. The Government is trying to build a water resivior on thier land. This is thier land deeded way back with the King of England. A resivior is thier buisness..not the state governments buisness..it is thier land...not eminent domain. They should decide..not the government in Richmond or Washington.
However...this still does not translate into a guilt trip automatically by default on me. I am not intrested in this ..from other Americans or from Europeans. Same thing with racism type "Victimization" not intrested here.
Ive seen how the Indians live..here, in North Carolina and out in Arizona. That too is their buisness as is the gambling on their reservations. However...it appears to me that the funds from the gambling is not doing them much good or someone is mismanaging it. That too is their buisness..not mine. I dont gamble nor like going to such places like that to drink or socialize. It is their buisness..not mine.

As to the point about the US Air Force flying along in the same olde manner ...day in and day out.... I think there is some truth to this. Talk about dumb. This, to my limited knowlege ,is what happened to many of the B52s flying over North Vietnam...straight up the middle..... till they got ahold of the fighter pilots and learned how to change altitude when the SAMs started flying. I think that some branches of the service ..this lesson did not fully sink in with the next generation.
Kind dumb ...like putting all the Marines in one building in Lebanon some time back in the 1980s so someone could drive a truck bomb into the building. Talk about stupid. How many times does it take ..to learn ...dont bunch up...dont fly the same route in and out..over and over no matter what kind of plane one is flying.??

By the way....isnt there a maneuver taught here similar to the Cobra...called Flatplating?? Or at least with the same or similar results...almost to a stall??

As to the Russians..they have helped thier economy immensely by switching to a flat tax system. A concept our government is loath to institute here. That the Russians have done this is being kept very quiet and or on the back burner here....out of the spotlight compared to the significance of it. This flat tax has helped out the Russian Military.
When so many buisnesses haved invested overseas with new plants and equipment you dont do well by investing here stateside to become competition for your overseas plants....by sponsoring a flat tax to stimulate capital for investment here. Not going to happen.
Our dollar value is going through the tank as predicted and foretold by people like John Maynard Keynes in his "Economic Consequences of the Peace."
This loss of dollar value will control all transactions across the economy...including our military spending....till the dollar is worthless or close to it.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 7-10-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 7-10-2007 by orangetom1999]



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