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At The Brink of War

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posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by infinite


Taiwan is our friend and we have already stated that we will protect Taiwan if China decides to take over Taiwan.


I think you should check the current US policy. As I made clear in another thread about China's power on the US economy, the current administration policy is now wanting Taiwan not to do anything that will damage the relations between the US and China.

President Bush said that when the Chinese President came to visit Washington a year back.

There is a large faction in Taiwan who want closer relations with China, I think it's either the new President or a candidate standing. Nationalism is strong in Taiwan.


Actually. You should look into the reason why the United States cares so much for Taiwan.

Because they have democracy? Please, we could care less.

The fact is China CANNOT DRILL FOR OIL off its coast because the oil deposits are between China and Taiwan, which international law says (if you believe in international law) that no nation may use resources within another countries boundaries without permission, and mining is limited to I believe 100 miles off shore.

Taiwan may be blocking china from accessing possibly the worlds single largest oil deposit ..... which is why China wants Taiwan, and why America will wage war to protect Taiwan. And we will. Our current policy states that aggression on behalf of China towards independent Taiwan will be cause for open warfare, as our near by military forces are sworn to protect her sovereignty. How about that? We are not afraid of China, no one should be afraid of China, China is weak beyond realization. They have men, big deal, men do not win wars any more, they lack modern technology that can act superior (hence why they have not moved to take Taiwan....) .. China's only weapon is economically, which not to long ago they explained and gave a demonstration that it can be used as a weapon. Personally I would rather the economy tank and be rebuilt then carry on trade with the Chinese.




posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
No, the people of Taiwan definitely want to remain seperated from China.


Again, that's not true. The country is very much split. Some people do not want to be apart of the current communist government in China, but would support reunification if China became democratic.



I don't know what Bush said exactly because you did not provide a link but the policy towards Taiwan has not changed.


Due to China threaten to use the nuclear economic policy, the United States is powerless over Taiwan.

But we are going way off topic here!

Back to Iran, I doubt China would get involved. The US could simply buy them off with access to Iranian oil and it would be solved. Plus China is currently buying up oil in Africa (I believe)

Russia could be the only roadblock to military action.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by infiniteAgain, that's not true. The country is very much split. Some people do not want to be apart of the current communist government in China, but would support reunification if China became democratic.


Again, it is true!
Of course some people may want it but its no where near the majority.



Due to China threaten to use the nuclear economic policy, the United States is powerless over Taiwan.


Not true!
China is just as dependent on the U.S. economically so that theory is a wash.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 



ehh, long day at work. I meant '05 - '06. Sorry about that.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Great post. I only hope that I can get a lot of money and work hard before the war begins, so that I can fund a revolution should we likely lose.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Just to add to the plane grounding "coincidence" got this email at work today:
September 12, 2007

Air Travel Alert

The manufacturer of the Q400 Bombardier aircraft has officially grounded
all this type of aircraft due to malfunctioning landing gear. All Q400
Bombardier around the world are required to be inspected before they can
be used again. There is no estimated time for completion. Horizon Air
has 19 of these planes that travel short routes out of Seattle. They
have had to cancel 113 flights in the last 24 hrs. It is anticipated
they will cancel approximately 23% of their flights until the
inspections are complete. Alaska Airlines is lending their aircraft in
an attempt to fill the gaps, but will not completely meet the needs of
travelers.




posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by princeofpeace
 


You seem to like history as a gauge huh. How about this, in the history of THE WORLD has any super power not imploded, destroyed itself or just flat out been destroyed? Nope, and if you think the corrupt US government will be the first to stave this off... well then you dont care for history as a barometer as much as it would seem.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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Am new to ATS have just been reading this thread, very interesting. Think some people are getting a bit worked up about things though. Iran is still quite away from getting the "bomb". Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli's didn't take care of it themselves, some of the latest news on the little incident in Syria the other day has it that they took out a joint Iranian/Syrian missile base, maybe give the Mullahs back in Iran something to think about. Also suprised nobody's pointed this out yet, Israel already has a well developed nuclear arsenal (estimated at over 200, or about the same as Britain or France) and the ability to launch them via cruise missile from its submarines. So probably think US wiil probably just give Israel access to Iraqi airspace let them go in and maybe help them finish it off, jobe done, some angry Mid East folks but no general kick off, suppose China could use it as a distraction over Taiwan but they value their econmy to much to be rash.



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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As I see it - in my own deluded way - we have been living under the specter of the bomb and Armageddon for most if not all of our lifetimes. It was bad in '62 but it was probably worse , as far as tensions go under the Regan years.
What it comes down to is if they vaporise .. contaminate .. turn off our MTV ..
well we'll deal with it or die ... there's very little we can do about it except watch with a eerily morbid fascination .. At times like this I think of Eisenhower's quote of how we should fear the Military Industrial Complex and wonder what the wold would be like if people heeded his thoughts then .. but as it is the 'dream of a united planet' going to colonize space was disrupted in the early 60's by a cou de ta of our president (our's if you're American) .....
What are you to do .. ?
I'm going to have a fine micro brew and go sit in the yard and see if I can spot the northern lights .. according to spaceweather they should be good tonight.
-everyone be most excelant
0_x_0



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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You make a lot of interesting points, but I have to take issue with the above, as a student of Russian and Soviet history. The West did not isolate itself from Russia. Putin has been isolating Russia from the West, as well as seeking stronger ties to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, etc. Bush was very friendly to Putin when Putin was elected. Putin responded by backing Saddam Hussein (that oil for food money went into Russian pockets as well as into Chirac's and many UN people), being very reluctant to help with North Korea, and backing Chavez, as well as Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria. . .

Putin has his own plans, which involve making Russia a mighty nation again -- under his rule of course. He uses his near-monopoly of natural gas in Europe to increase his influence in Belarus, the Czech Republic, and the more western parts of Europe.

Take Care.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 12:01 AM
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What's going to be the Powder Keg in all of this??? what inadvertant act by a third party is going to trigger war on a massive scale?



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 12:08 AM
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It's 1:00 AM in New York City. Do you really think that tomorrow you will wake up to terror?

I was worried before, but now I don't think anything is going to happen tomorrow.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by windwaker
It's 1:00 AM in New York City. Do you really think that tomorrow you will wake up to terror?

I was worried before, but now I don't think anything is going to happen tomorrow.


I doubt it, would be nice if we do though, so we can finally stop worrying and start being active about it.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 02:45 AM
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posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by AllSeeingI
Bush Declared War With Iran 5/21/2007


Yeah. From the article: ""Vice President Cheney helped to lead the side favoring a military strike," said former CIA official Riedel"

No, really?



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by Project_Silo
reply to post by Ketzer22
 


Chinese navy is not to bad.I'm not to keen on Russias though.But does anyoen remember like maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago about the naval wargames we had.Were ALL ten of our vessels were sunk and we did not even detect them,much less shoot at them.

Also the Chinese happend to have stole a lot of technology from our navy.They stole our state of the art submarine engine information,nuclear information,and the very very important outter shell of our submarines.Wich keeps the sub running silent along with the engine.And all this withen the last 6 years,I also forgot some most likely.

[edit on 13-9-2007 by Project_Silo]


Clinton sold it to them.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:42 AM
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Wow.... Nothing happened...I haven't heard a big bomb go off. The thread is dead. Pun intended. All of these things could just be coincidences or speculation.. I have a very different view of coincidences since four years ago I advertised an item for sale on a bulletin board that is read world wide and the person that bought it worked 300 ft from where I worked. Neither one of us knew each other or had any friends in common. Just a very weird coincidence.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:52 AM
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Well i can tell you for a FACT that the M.O.D is England is building up, my dad owns a blasting compay and he got maybe 1 or 2 M.O.D jobs a year, just blast some pieces here and there. Now he is getting bits from ships, tanks, planes and blast proof barriors EVERYDAY. So it looks liek were getting ready to be all killed.

You know im sick of this planet, i bet weve hit this stage of technology about 10 times before, but we keep blown each other up. O well, see you all in another life


Take Care, Vix



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by infinite


Taiwan is our friend and we have already stated that we will protect Taiwan if China decides to take over Taiwan.


I think you should check the current US policy. As I made clear in another thread about China's power on the US economy, the current administration policy is now wanting Taiwan not to do anything that will damage the relations between the US and China.

President Bush said that when the Chinese President came to visit Washington a year back.

There is a large faction in Taiwan who want closer relations with China, I think it's either the new President or a candidate standing. Nationalism is strong in Taiwan.


Actually. You should look into the reason why the United States cares so much for Taiwan.

Because they have democracy? Please, we could care less.

The fact is China CANNOT DRILL FOR OIL off its coast because the oil deposits are between China and Taiwan, which international law says (if you believe in international law) that no nation may use resources within another countries boundaries without permission, and mining is limited to I believe 100 miles off shore.

Taiwan may be blocking china from accessing possibly the worlds single largest oil deposit ..... which is why China wants Taiwan, and why America will wage war to protect Taiwan. And we will. Our current policy states that aggression on behalf of China towards independent Taiwan will be cause for open warfare, as our near by military forces are sworn to protect her sovereignty. How about that? We are not afraid of China, no one should be afraid of China, China is weak beyond realization. They have men, big deal, men do not win wars any more, they lack modern technology that can act superior (hence why they have not moved to take Taiwan....) .. China's only weapon is economically, which not to long ago they explained and gave a demonstration that it can be used as a weapon. Personally I would rather the economy tank and be rebuilt then carry on trade with the Chinese.







Ok, It's not about the oil.
The US have always tried to contain china and its influences ever since the korean and vietnam wars.
North Korea, Vietnam, Japan and Taiwan are geological barriers between the USA and Chi\na. China would not want the US landing troops in taiwan as they already have in Japan and SOuth Korea. China will become an economic superpower very soon, but its military is nothing compared to the US. As I said, the US can dominate the whole world if the people wanted to.
The US never intended on spreading democracy, the United Kingdoms, South Korea, and Japan are dogs of the USA.


Edit, by the way, china bought US tech from Israel. You will know why if you learned enough history. All i can say is that China saved a hell lotta Jews during the Holocaust. Israel was secretly going to sell a B-2 and stealth tech to China, but the US found out.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by die_another_day]



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Wow. If I learned enough history, right after ...that... post. Unless you have an actual point to the post (which as far as I can honestly see was essentially you saying it had nothing to do with oil but instead because China did not want us having troops there
) I would not add snide remarks in like that. Pet peeve of mine. Uneducated assumers and guessers claiming their right without an educational foundation within the post its self.

Aside from that, its off topic.



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