At The Brink of War

Newbie here. been reading the forums for 6 months. first post.
I'm soooooo paranoid, and scared out of my wits. Unfortunately, there's no place to hide, and I feel as though I've wasted my life and it will end in the next 24 hrs. I feel sick.

anyhow,
does anyone think that the Bush 15 min speech tonight will be the start?

I was wondering what it would take to make some people side with America?

Is America always the evil empire?

You don't think we may EVER have to defend ourselves?

Every scenario is examined and re-examined in such a way as to make America the problem.

Maybe we should spend as much time examining other countries agendas,

What if by convincing ourselves there is NO OTHER PROBLEM in the world but US, we lull ouselved into a false sense of security, by ignoring the fact, YES, we do have enemies, YES, we do need to defend ouselves, and YES, there are people out there that want to put an end to America.

I bet our enemies love the fact that we are chasing our tails, and maybe that is all part of their agenda, destroy us from within.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
WE the poeple must not elt our president take us to war with Iran unless there is 100% proof of them making a nuke.

Why can't they have a nuke?

What if I said, "You can't own a gun. If you get a gun, I'm going to come into your house and take it away and probably kill you and your family. I just can't take the chance of you having a gun. You could kill me or my family with it."

How would you feel about that?

I wouldn't like it. And neither does Iran. Why does Iran want a nuke? Would you want a gun if my friends and I were in your front and backyards with guns and you knew that we didn't like you? Chances are, you'd buy a gun as quickly as you could to protect your family and yourself.

The real agenda should be protecting ourselves and helping to protect our allies. If Israel is our ally, then set up defensive initiatives to protect them and make it absolutely clear that the retaliation for an Iranian attack upon Israel will be swift and complete. If we withdrew the troops from all the foreign countries we wouldn't have the Anti-American sentiment that has festered there and created this army of terrorist.

Originally posted by moist
does anyone think that the Bush 15 min speech tonight will be the start?

You have a link to a news item about this?

Read this and imagine nuclear war against the U.S

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
Give her as much torture and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
'I sit as queen; I am not a widow,
and I will never mourn.'
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
O Babylon, city of power!
In one hour your doom has come!'

"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more— cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

"They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.' The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn and cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

"Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!

The last book in the Bible - Revelations Chapter 18

Its not hard to imagine the U.S being described here. Not saying that it IS the U.S, but who else in the world would so many weep and mourn at her destruction? Weep and mourn for trade losses?
Another interesting thing to note in those verses are:
"In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!" And "She will be consumed by fire"

Both can be associated with nuclear conflict.

Its definitely something to ponder ....

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I was wondering what it would take to make some people side with America?

Is America always the evil empire?

You don't think we may EVER have to defend ourselves?

What if by convincing ourselves there is NO OTHER PROBLEM in the world but US, we lull ouselved into a false sense of security, by ignoring the fact, YES, we do have enemies, YES, we do need to defend ouselves, and YES, there are people out there that want to put an end to America.

Now hang on a second. I don't believe that anyone feels like there is no real threat to the US. Nor are we "lulling ourselves" into a false sense of security, but when will the US start taking a little accountability for its mistakes?

If you recall - the US went to defend themselves after 911 by chasing down the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. THAT was a good idea and most people agreed it was an appropriate response. Then, all of a sudden, we invade Iraq!?!?! That made no ense, nor would it have happened if 911 didn't occur.

Bush was itching to get into Iraq and he seized upon his high approval ratings at the time to do so.

Now let's look at the present failing war in Iraq, lets look at the fact that we dropped the ball in Afghanistan and we are wondering why Al Qaeda is back to full strength.

Asking for a little accountability here is not crazy? Is it?

As far as the draft goes, many more people will fight that, and refuse it than ever before in history. I had an uncle that refused to be drafted once, he moved every 3 weeks for 5 years, and he never spent a day in jail either for avoiding being found.

This isn't like WW2 where people are off to fight the big bad Nazi's that were slaughtering people in camps.

Then again maybe the US will do a Nuke False Flag Operation, to get everybody to want to go oversee's to stop it from happening again.

I am more worried about a home grown nuclear false flag, than a terrorist nuclear bomb going off.

[edit on 13-9-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

Originally posted by Burginthorn

Its not hard to imagine the U.S being described here. Not saying that it IS the U.S, but who else in the world would so many weep and mourn at her destruction? Weep and mourn for trade losses?
Another interesting thing to note in those verses are:
"In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!" And "She will be consumed by fire"

Both can be associated with nuclear conflict.

Its definitely something to ponder ....

Well, here is one interpretation of who are the beasts of Revelation:

First and second beast etc


[edit on 13-9-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by moist


I'm so disillusioned by Humanity that I can take it or leave it. I've seen enough to know that people are fundamentally flawed in character. There needs to be a better, more stable model.

The only thing that I regret is not having more kinky sex, and being on a diet right now.

There's nothing you can do about anything, there never was anything you could do in these matters. Also, you don't know if anything is really going to happen. I have an 42" HDTV delivery on the 23rd, and I still think it's coming, despite our conversations here.

There are so many ways to leave this planet. You can die in a car accident tomorrow. You could get cancer. So war is just one other peril amongst many.

So until something really happens, go out and have more sex and good food. Spend time with and appreciate friends and family. Don't change any of your plans. Plan more and plan better, like you really mean to get your dreams.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by Project_Silo
WE the poeple must not elt our president take us to war with Iran unless there is 100% proof of them making a nuke.

Why can't they have a nuke?

What if I said, "You can't own a gun. If you get a gun, I'm going to come into your house and take it away and probably kill you and your family. I just can't take the chance of you having a gun. You could kill me or my family with it."

How would you feel about that?

I wouldn't like it. And neither does Iran. Why does Iran want a nuke? Would you want a gun if my friends and I were in your front and backyards with guns and you knew that we didn't like you? Chances are, you'd buy a gun as quickly as you could to protect your family and yourself.

The real agenda should be protecting ourselves and helping to protect our allies. If Israel is our ally, then set up defensive initiatives to protect them and make it absolutely clear that the retaliation for an Iranian attack upon Israel will be swift and complete. If we withdrew the troops from all the foreign countries we wouldn't have the Anti-American sentiment that has festered there and created this army of terrorist.

While I certainly see your point, I will have to object to part of this statement. Everyone should not have access to a nuclear arsenal, just as all citizens are not allowed to own firearms (i.e. convicted criminals, the mentally ill) because they have proven through their words or actions that they cannot possess them in a responsible, reasonable manner.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated many times openly that he wishes to wipe Israel and her allies off the face of the Earth. He does not mix words and openly admits to actively plotting the destruction and death of an entire country. Now mind you I am no Israeli sympathizer, and I understand why muslims throughout the middle east oppose the existence of an Israeli state in their home lands, but if Iran were to obtain nuclear weaponry Ahmadinejad could and would be able to hold the entire region hostage whenever he felt like it.

You don't give a bloodthirsty dictator nukes for the same reason you dont give a pyromaniac a book of matches, the likelihood that they will set everything around them on fire would be extremely high.

I am a newbie too. I just signed up today. I am starting to feel like if we get through tomorrow or to 9/21 (when the put option supposedly will be over) then great, we are all wrong and just love scaring ourselves silly. However, there are just too many clues to go unanswered.

How can the AF make a "mistake" with nukes? And here's the 64,000 question....even if they did, why do we know about it. They have the power to keep that info from common knowledge. Why have this "mistake" made public?

And I have to admit, the El Al flights really gave me the willy-nillies. They are flying all over the world on the 14th and 15th but not New York and Los Angeles. That makes no sense whatsoever.

The GW speech tonight just adds more to the fire. I live and work in Manhattan and have been through 9/11 as well as the steampipe explosion (which if you were there, the first 15 minutes felt and sounded like a building was collapsing) most recently and I can tell you my nerves are shot.

I bet there were many signs leading up to 9/11 but we just weren't looking for them. Now six years later, we are more in tune with odd behavior with our government as well as the rest of the world.

It's sick and in a way I didn't know about any of this so I can go on without a care in the world.

Originally posted by Geddy2112

And I have to admit, the El Al flights really gave me the willy-nillies. They are flying all over the world on the 14th and 15th but not New York and Los Angeles. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Is this a provable fact or more of a ATS Factish?

Originally posted by Geddy2112
I bet there were many signs leading up to 9/11 but we just weren't looking for them. Now six years later, we are more in tune with odd behavior with our government as well as the rest of the world.

Well, this is exactly what it is about. A lot of americans seem to think we hate them. Nothing could be further from the truth. But the government... thats where the real evil lies. Thats not hating America, thats seeing and realizing what is going on with its leadership. People are being fed lie after lie after lie and end up with a very distorted view of reality.

reply to post by Copernicus



No, I am sorry, I heard it on the radio on the way to work, It's supposed to be at 19:00 EST today. It's supposed to be a 15 minute speech on the Iraq "plan."
Too many things have been going on, or rather, I've been READING too many things and have unfortunately made myself physically ill.

reply to post by BlackOps719


I see your point. And we shouldn't give them nuclear weapons.

But, how many people thought Kim Jong-il was a mad man when he was launching Intercontinental Ballistic Missles (ICBMs) into the Sea of Japan? I, for one, did. Yet, we allowed him, not only to maintain nuclear facilities, but to develope nuclear weapons. I'm not saying he's anymore sane that I thought he was, but there's an international understanding called Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD). It kept the U.S. and Russia at peace throughout the Cold War.

If Iran wants to help it's people with nuclear power, I think they should have the chance to. Granted, more than likely they will develope a bomb. But, I think we can maintain a balance in the region in a non-threatening way. Invasion or even an attack by the U.S. upon Iran will culminate in WWIII. We can and HAVE to avoid this means of action. We can make it abosolutely clear to Iran that if they want nuclear technology they will have to play a role in the ENTIRE region's security, including Israel. They have the weapons, the army, the funding ... all the means neccessary to secure the entire Middle East with the help of their neighbors. They can step up and become a big brother to the Muslim Nations the surround them, or they can help in it's destruction. We can make it clear that if a nuclear detonation were to occur in the region, we would act in accordance with MAD and retalitate.

Originally posted by Geddy2112
How can the AF make a "mistake" with nukes? And here's the 64,000 question....even if they did, why do we know about it. They have the power to keep that info from common knowledge. Why have this "mistake" made public?

I guess that´s what´s most "unrealalist" about this event. Not the mistake itself but the leak of info.

Originally posted by Geddy2112
And I have to admit, the El Al flights really gave me the willy-nillies. They are flying all over the world on the 14th and 15th but not New York and Los Angeles. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Can you explain to me what is "the El Al flights"? Sorry if it's a noob question but I'm curious now and never heard about this here in Brazil.

Originally posted by Geddy2112
The GW speech tonight just adds more to the fire. I live and work in Manhattan and have been through 9/11 as well as the steampipe explosion (which if you were there, the first 15 minutes felt and sounded like a building was collapsing) most recently and I can tell you my nerves are shot.

Do you also know what time?

Thanks

Originally posted by tyranny22

I see your point. And we shouldn't give them nuclear weapons.

But, how many people thought Kim Jong-il was a mad man when he was launching Intercontinental Ballistic Missles (ICBMs) into the Sea of Japan? I, for one, did. Yet, we allowed him, not only to maintain nuclear facilities, but to develope nuclear weapons. I'm not saying he's anymore sane that I thought he was, but there's an international understanding called Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD). It kept the U.S. and Russia at peace throughout the Cold War.

Just read what you just said. "Give him". "Allow him". I mean... the USA has taken on a role as world police. You even reason like you have the right to dictate what countries have the right to do what.

How would you like it if Russia or China started telling you what to do? My guess is you would ignore it, right?

Yes, some of the middle east countries would probably use nuclear weapons, and I agree that preventing them from that is a good idea, but just look at yourself in the mirror. You may even nuke Iran before they have even done anything to you. Why is that right? Its not. You should never be allowed to use nuclear weapons either.

Also the bombs over hiroshima and nagasaki were totally meaningless. The war was going your way anyway. USA just dropped them because they wanted to test them on real objects.



[edit on 13-9-2007 by Copernicus]

Sator,

its gonna be on at

8:00 central time / 9:00 Eastern on NBC im sure its gonna be on all the other networks too.

reply to post by Geddy2112


Geddy-

that steam pipe thing was scary. 45th and Lex here.

Traderonwallst....

I am on 42nd between Park and Lex. My building shook, lights blinked, and was pelted with rocks. As we were evacuating down the stairwell, we were all convenienced that the building next door was coming down. The sound was not coming from the ground up but rather from above. I hate to say it but at that moment I felt as I am sure the people did in WTC as they were trying to make their way out. Turns out my building was only a half block from the explosion and it was closed for over a week!

Ever since 9/11 I have subconciously always thought the day will come again only this time it would be in my backyard (I was on 42nd St. for 9/11). The steampipe was too real for me. Now all this talk about crap happening for real....damn....just leave New York alone. I am totally scared.