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Whats the common ATS take on the OKC bombing?

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posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Was there government knowledge?

Government conspiracy?

I personally believe there was a U.S. government connection in there, however I am having a hard time finding the link between the Terry Nichols/Ramzi Youseff meeting in the Phillipines, and the government involvement.

Any ideas?




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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there was zero government involvement in the OKC fed building bombing, the closet thing to such would be the governments initial downplay of yousef and or KSM being involved. I believe they still don't acknowledge much of KSM being involved, however one would be niave to believe that the savage didnt have a hand in the target selection and or training of Nichols. Homegrown terrorists are REAL, whether or not they are islamically motivated or not. All nation states from the dawn of modern civilization have faced such a threat. And for the forseeable future it will remain a threat to social peace and well being.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:04 PM
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McVeigh's lawyer put out a book entitled, "Others Unknown". Although a gag order is in effect preventing him (or anyone else connected with the trial) from disclosing all the evidence, the title alone intimates that McVeigh and Nichols were not the only ones involved.
Plus, I know a couple of people in the alphabet groups and some were told not to come to work that day and others were not. The school bus carrying my child on a field trip to downtown OKC that morning was in the latter group. *Grrrrrrr*



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Optimus Crime
there was zero government involvement in the OKC fed building bombing, the closet thing to such would be the governments initial downplay of yousef and or KSM being involved. I believe they still don't acknowledge much of KSM being involved, however one would be niave to believe that the savage didnt have a hand in the target selection and or training of Nichols. Homegrown terrorists are REAL, whether or not they are islamically motivated or not. All nation states from the dawn of modern civilization have faced such a threat. And for the forseeable future it will remain a threat to social peace and well being.


Well there are documented meetings between Ramzi Yousef and Terry Nichols in the Phillipines. I believe there is a connection between TWA 800, OKC, and the first WTC bombing.

Personally, I believe the government either had a hand in it or at least knowledge of it and allowed it to occur in order to quell the rapidly gaining support for the militia movement.

Back in the 1990's there was a great magazine titled The American Survival Guide, which to the best of my knowledge is no longer in print. In that mag, there were extensive articles about numerous oddities about the OKC bombings such as "Top Secret" files being removed from the Murrah building in the days prior to the event, as well as some sensitive keyhole satellites being focused on the building the day of the blast .

I posted this thread in hopes someone could shed some light on those oddities if indeed they are true.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:59 PM
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I don't believe the US government had anything to do with it- after all, what would they gain?

However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that there were other people/organisations involved.

Looking at the typical US militia/survivialist type, they would appear to have a couple of common goals with Islamic fundie types. A surivialist government (LOL, irony) would probably work in both interests.

In that case though I don't know why a concerted campaign wasn't wage if that were true.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Optimus Crime
there was zero government involvement in the OKC fed building bombing, the closet thing to such would be the governments initial downplay of yousef and or KSM being involved. I believe they still don't acknowledge much of KSM being involved, however one would be niave to believe that the savage didnt have a hand in the target selection and or training of Nichols. Homegrown terrorists are REAL, whether or not they are islamically motivated or not. All nation states from the dawn of modern civilization have faced such a threat. And for the forseeable future it will remain a threat to social peace and well being.


Well there are documented meetings between Ramzi Yousef and Terry Nichols in the Phillipines. I believe there is a connection between TWA 800, OKC, and the first WTC bombing.

Personally, I believe the government either had a hand in it or at least knowledge of it and allowed it to occur in order to quell the rapidly gaining support for the militia movement.

Back in the 1990's there was a great magazine titled The American Survival Guide, which to the best of my knowledge is no longer in print. In that mag, there were extensive articles about numerous oddities about the OKC bombings such as "Top Secret" files being removed from the Murrah building in the days prior to the event, as well as some sensitive keyhole satellites being focused on the building the day of the blast .

I posted this thread in hopes someone could shed some light on those oddities if indeed they are true.


Do you have any links to these documented meetings by chance? I'm interested in having a read about them.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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Get the book " The Third Terrorist" and have a read. I don't doubt that McVeigh did it but if you read the book you will see he had help and the Clinton Adm. covered it up.

Roper



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine


Do you have any links to these documented meetings by chance? I'm interested in having a read about them.



Sure thing.


The video interrogation linking Nichols to Yousef, bin Laden and Iraq initially was obtained by Stephen Jones, the defense attorney who represented convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. But at the insistence of federal prosecutors, trial judge Richard P. Matsch refused to admit it into evidence.


Source

If you want some real compelling reading, check out Jack Cashill's site for a number of great articles detailing the connections between OKC, TWA 800 and the first WTC bombing.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by slackerwire]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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Thanks guys. I'll have a look at that link, and the book too if I can find it.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:27 PM
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I have always thought there were others involved besides those charged. I'm not alone.






[edit on 9/10/2007 by TheAvenger]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
I don't believe the US government had anything to do with it- after all, what would they gain?

However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that there were other people/organisations involved.


I remember reading that the original company that was contracted to investigate the wreckage/debris at the site (it was called JFK or something) had their contract cancelled at the last second, and another contractor came in to remove all the debris and ship it out, instead of testing it - just like the debris at WTC.

If that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't know what does.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 09:25 PM
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What would they be contracted to investigate that the Federal government themselves couldn't do?



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 10:56 PM
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OKC was a major event if you take a step back and look at the repercussions on all of America.

A couple years after the bombing I remember watching a news report on the number of local organized militias in America, and there were hundreds if not thousands. After the media onslaught of the crazy redneck blowing up innocent people, the report said that the number of militias were next to zero. The report editorializes and figures it was due to the wives/mothers and children that don't want daddy in the crazy bomber club.

As an adult, I agree that there are no more militias around anymore, they are perfectly legal and encouraged in the constitution, they used to march in parades. Today there's too much negative stigma, get a bunch of white men with guns meeting up and every internet goon thinks they are racist and ready to blow stuff up.

So what does this mean? A government that doesn't fear its people is one with too much power. Perhaps this gave them a blank check for such events as 9/11?

A fun idea, just imagine having a thousand outraged militias swarming DC and taking over, which is legal by the way (IF they win).



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Of course there was government involvement! It was completely done by the feds. The building debris was buried and placed under armed guard. There were bombs and micro nukes inside, as reported by witnesses who saw these devices being removed by the ATF, and the ATF office was completely empty that morning, due to many of them being tipped off in advance. There were connections to middle eastern terrorist organizations including Ramzi Yousef, who is now known to be a CIA asset. It is also worth noting that the ATF had been in full gear that takes at least 30 mins to put on when they arrived, due to a bombing exercise they had been running that morning.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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This is a little vague. I wish I could remember where I saw this and supply the link. A good bet would be one of the Alex Jones sites. There was a link posted to a video of Timothy McVeigh, in military uniform, working inside an armoured vehicle of some sort, taken at a military base near Oklahoma City, where coincidentally a Rider rental truck was also seen just prior to the bombing.

The video showing McVeigh was taken by some journalist on a tour of the base. I don't know when it was taken but I believe it was sometime after McVeigh's official discharge from the military, but before the bombing at Oklahoma City, much before, not immediatlely prior.

The video was brought forward by Jones because he believes that McVeigh continued some involvement with the military after his discharge and was in fact a classic patsy, like Lee Harvey Oswald. Military guys would know, but after discharge is it likely that a discharged soldier would be on a base working inside an armoured vehicle, in uniform? Jones seemed to think it was an important sighting of a mysterious guy, McVeigh.

I'll try to find the link. Here it is:

www.prisonplanet.com...

Correction:
The Prison Planet story makes it clear that the Ryder truck was seen at another base, not the one McVeigh was training at.

I just tried to play the video in question and a message came up that the video was no longer available. I guess that's why Alex calls his other site "infowars". I have seen the video. Maybe someone has mirrored it somewhere on the web.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by ipsedixit]



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
What would they be contracted to investigate that the Federal government themselves couldn't do?



They were contracted as a third party to analyze ballistics. I hesitate to mention the source of this info, but since I can't find the book to quote it directly and do more research... I read it in John DeCamp's book entitled "The Franklin Coverup."

The book has absolutely nothing at all to do with the bombings, this is just an extra chapter that was added.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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Yes indeed, it was all done by a lone "deranged" person. He had the help of some other people, so it seems reasonable to make tighter controls on American citizens. And although showing remorse for the deaths of innocent people on a 60 minutes tape, he never revealed the secrets that led him to this act.

He was executed for his crime.

Or was he?



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Terrorist events, with few exceptions, are staged and managed by the intelligence services to facilitate political and corporate goals, including removal of civil rights from the people, tighter control of citizen movements, repressive laws, the supression and demonization of the militia movements ( the only people ready to take a stand for the Constitution ) and the impetus that these acts bring in the form of new laws that give more and more power to the feds.

They proved that the ' left wing ' bombings in Italy and Spain during the 80's were right wing intelligence inspired to make the left look bad, blaming it on them. Most all events have been proceeded with great and many warnings and those were ignored and suppressed by the White House for obvious reasons. Just ask Robin Wright about it. The top tier is where the plans for world conquest take place, the big players decide that we need to take the Iraq and iran and Afghanistan's land and wealth, and all because of staged terror, all an excuse.

The bad guys are in charge here s well as in all other major nations, all beholden to the bog banks and big corp's. Money, money, and more money. Thats the patriotic song that the cabal sings about. This nation is in nig trouble and the peole are sleeping, so sad.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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The ATF office was not completely empty that fatelful morning. I could name a couple of ATF officers that were late for work for various reasons and complained to me (and others) that some of their co-workers were told not to come in to work that day and they weren't among the preadmonished. Others showed up, (on time) regretfully.

Still, I believe our government knew (and probably orchestrated) the entire event.

One thing I've always found especially curious is that Timothy Mcveigh was such a loyal soldier and excellent marksman. He was once known to have made a 900 yard shot from a tank during the heat of battle and kill a guy that was foolish enough to light up a cigarette (giving away his position). People like that come to the attention of higher-ups. I never believed that he just became disgruntled and picked a (relatively) easy target in Oklahoma. I live here and can tell you for certain that Oklahoma government is corrupt to the core. Every few years we have a pack of county commissioners resign in disgrace (to the Bahamas, no doubt) after being caught with their hand in the till. This has been going on as long as I can remember and I'm old.

I think that McVeigh, being the loyal soldier and America-loving patriot that he was, agreed to do one more "big job" for his country. He was not in the militia but that's the group that was targeted "by association" later.
His family and friends described him as "passionate" about his beliefs yet he exhibited a disturbing lack of passion throughout the entire ordeal.

And how stupid do you have to be to go through all that planning, preparation and execution of a major terrorist attack and forget to take care of the getaway? C'mon! He was a lot of things but stupid and lacking attention to detail were not among his faults.

Oklahoma, while maintaining a small town image is in the center of the country and the crossroads of both I-35 and I-40; two major thoroughfares throughout the country. Traditionally, when a country is taken over, it starts at the center and radiates out. (See Russias' M.O.)

A lot of things don't add up when looking at the Murrah Bldg. attack but it's over now and after that first step, we have moved at a much faster pace toward even more terrible events that are negatively shaping our future. A pattern of global take-over is emerging and all the pieces are falling into place. THAT, at least, is obviously not being done by "a lone madman".



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