Police break up anti-war meeting in Washington

reply to post by seentoomuch


Now that is tragic! Btw, have you noticed the date? According to the doomsdayers and etal we should be having more fireworks today!

Once again this date comes around, once again Osama (CGI?) is trotted out, once again we will bunker down with FOX on.

Personally, I think this war started long before 911. I remember Paris under seige by the Muslims in the early 90s, the metro bombings, the hostage taking in Jewish pre-schools in Paris, the attempt at blowing up a 747? over the heart of the city with a sick explanation called into the newspaper there saying that they were going to finish what the Nazis had begun and destroy the city, blood and bodyparts were to rain over Paris, I remember being chased through the streets there with calls of "Infidel" and stones being thrown at me (I was shopping at the markets for stew ingredients), I remember all the trash on the floor of Orly because they had removed the trashcans fearing a bomb would be placed inside, all trash was to be thrown on the floor and you were to just wade through it, I remember being searched at the post office before I entered, my Christmas packages home were opened and searched, I remember it all, it did not start with 911.

STM

reply to post by seentoomuch


that really must have been terrible. that's one more reminder of what a wonderful country we have. Who knows what the morrow will bring?

reply to post by janasstar


I kissed the ground when we landed. There is no country in the world that compares to the U.S.A.

Arabia and all Muslim countries need either an army of Marines for tough love or perhaps Oprah to help them search for their inner child. I'm joking, who really knows what is truly in the souls of these people? They're taught from such a young age to lie to any that they consider Infidels, and that is exactly what we are to them. It's in God's hands.

STM

[edit on 9/11/2007 by seentoomuch]

reply to post by seentoomuch


Which is why it is ever so important that we maintain our status as a free country, and protect our rights that pertain to our Constitution and everything that sets us apart and make this nation great.

reply to post by janasstar


I'll take you comment how I assume it was intended and say thanks.


Really, though, the "American Dream" is largely responsible for bringing about the current way of things. That dream was sold to the country long ago... the idea that everyone could have "plenty" under a capitalist system. That's patently false and prolly the biggest pile of BS every foisted upon any group of people.

In a capitalist system, you simply must have poor people for the rich to prey upon. The more poor you can create, the richer the rich can become. That's basically the entire capitalist system broken down to it's raw reality and stripped of all it's far-fetch (yet perty) BS.

I very strongly recommend you read "Hegemony or Survival". It will give you a far better understanding of how things have come to be as they are now.

BTW, blaming Bush Co is like blaming today's rain for making rivers. It's not something that has happened recently, it's something that's been happening for a long time. In fact, Bush's policies are perfectly consistent with the standing policies... he's just managed more progress in a shorter time than most have.

To return to the topic at hand, I encourage more civil disobedience and protest across the US. If the democratic system has been usurped by corporate control, it's up to the people to FORCE democracy back upon the country.

If it requires revolution, so be it.
You can count on me and my ilk for support.

reply to post by BitRaiser


You are very correct. Today's matters did not happen overnight. Personally I think they've been in the making since the assassination of JFK. I am not alone in this theory. But ask yourself whose father was standing in the wings, when the murder took place? Who told the seated President of the USA that he could NOT reveal the truth about UFO's to the American ppl? Who was standing in the wings when Pres. Ronald Reagan was shot? And whose neighbor was it that shot him? Whose grandfather personally financed Hitler? There is a four letter word that keeps popping up!

reply to post by BitRaiser


Also if you want to extend the questions game a bit further, we could take it to 9/11/2001. Whose brother was head of security at the twin towers just before the tradgedy, but miraculously wasn't, when the event occurred? Who had a brother governor in Florida, where all the doubts of the election seemed to hang?

Ooops! Forgot one! Who was vacation buddies with the Bin Ladens?

[edit on 9/11/2007 by janasstar]

Originally posted by BitRaiser

To return to the topic at hand, I encourage more civil disobedience and protest across the US. If the democratic system has been usurped by corporate control, it's up to the people to FORCE democracy back upon the country.

If it requires revolution, so be it.
You can count on me and my ilk for support.

What will that accomplish? Really, tell us all about it. Your method is a dream, it won't work in today's world. Too many SUV soccer Moms, too many people with 401ks, too many depending on the next day being better than the last. Anyhow it's not the govt. or the corporations; to be more specific it's the multi-nationals and their free rein. Different methods should be used with them.

Here's a book that I highly recommend, also the author has some lectures on youtube explaining what he feels would put our country back on track ie what sort of protests would actually have an effect. He's an insider with plenty of experience and has his finger on the pulse of what moves the world.

Confessions of an Economic Hitman
en.wikipedia.org...

STM

Note: Don't forget to push for term limits; Less power, less corruption, no more professional politicians.


[edit on 9/11/2007 by seentoomuch]

reply to post by janasstar


Oh yeah... I wouldn't argue with you there for a moment.
I do caution, however, that removing Bush would likely not change a thing. He is only the visible part of a cancer that runs much deeper. Cut him out and all you do is allow the rest of the tumor to grow out of sight.

The deeper cancer of corporate control must be attacked in order to effect any real change. The first step towards that is building awareness. If enough people are made to understand what is being done to them, they'll have a chance to do something about it. It's the political distraction... this apparent choice... this circus sideshow that is stopping them from exercising their real power.

Hell, Carlin makes comedy about it and still people don't seem to clue in!
George Carlin exposes "The Owners"

reply to post by seentoomuch

In the 70s, the Hippy movement brought about the last real "crisis of democracy" (a term for describing when the people have too much power over things). They did this by "Tuning in and dropping out". They woke up to the realities of things and refused to play ball anymore. The refused to work. They set up communes and farmed. Hell, they even got violent and blew things up.

You don't hear much about that these days... and it's even hard to dig up information on early hippy terrorism. This is because it's been actively suppressed. Because it almost worked. The crisis those pot smoking, long haired, lazy cartoon characters that they are portrayed as, forced the administration to take a couple BIG steps back. They had to find new ways to deal with the public because they'd been exposed and standard methods just didn't work on these people.

So what do I propose?
Blow things up?
Naw... I'm not into the death thing if it can be avoided.
There are many things that can be done without having to resort to violence, but they all require that the nation's people wake up and start working together. There's nothing a unified population can't do. It would require a cultural revolution. An acceptance of a higher principle than money. An abandonment of greed. The ability to actually work hard for a change.

No, I don't think we're ready either... but it doesn't hurt to begin the education of the masses.

reply to post by BitRaiser


I totally agree with that. The next nightmare that will be sprung upon this country, will be if Hillary 'Rotten' Clinton gets into office. Didn't mean to get on a political platform, but I really like Ron Paul.

Originally posted by seentoomuch
Don't forget to push for term limits; Less power, less corruption, no more professional politicians.

ACK!

Dude, that's worse!
Removing the professional politicians leaves the lobbiests as the only long-term influence on government! It gives less chance of a "true leader" being able to effect any real change (as JFK attempted).

Remember, there have been good things done by political leaders.

It was Franklin D Roosevelt that implemented "The New Deal" which was a huge kick in the nuts to the robber barons (those early wealth vacuums that lead to the evolution of the modern corporation), setting them back several decades. He was also the only president in US history to server FOUR consecutive terms! He, in my opinion, was the single greatest American President of modern History and is the ONLY one that truly stood for democracy.

reply to post by BitRaiser


You sure know a lot about American History and the Hippie Movement. Did you once live in the States?

reply to post by BitRaiser


Too personal, I suppose. Anyway, we need to get this thread back on topic, which is, 'Police break up anti-war movement.'

reply to post by janasstar


Naw... not too personal, and no, I've never lived in the States. I've visited, even worked their for awhile, but I'll tell ya I was glad to come home. I don't really know how to say it without snubbing the many good folk in the US, but Canadians are just... nicer, on the whole. Less stress, less hostility.

As to my acknowledge, aside from reading/studying a lot, I have much older siblings that were a part of the original hippy movement, although they were here in Canada, they shared the same basic outlook. Also spent some time in the local hippy communes that are still active here on the West Coast. Many of them fled the US both the dodge the draft and to avoid persecution.

In the later stages of the movement, the authorities were able to regain control largely by vilifying the hippies as being the cause of the economic problems that the country was suffering. This was largely true, in fact it was part of the goal. By dropping out, the movement was breaking down the economic system, while at the same time they were living comfortably (although in a different standard of living).

The image was sold to Joe Factory Worker that the reason that his paycheck was so low was because the hippies were all on welfare and drawing off his tax money, so Joe Worker started to hate hippies. He'd beat them up if he could catch them. Of course, he was being lied to. Most hippies refused government support. That was part of dropping out. They were self sufficient, growing thing in their communes and working odd jobs to earn money. They also produced a lot of arts and crafts sort of products (which is why their style was so pervasive during the period). But Joe Worker didn't understand that the real reason his paycheck was so low was because a non-functional economy was investing heavily in a "war on terror". Back then, they called it a war on Communism, but it amounted to the same thing. A fake enemy to scare the people.

Holy crap I'm ranting!
Hehe, well... once I get started on a subject, it takes an act of will to stop.


The relevant point of all this is that back in that same time period, there was a LOT of civil disobedience and it had an impact on things. There was also a lot of conflict with police. This is going to be more and more common if the people actually stand up and make their voices heard.

Don't worry, Teargas really isn't all that bad.
It hurts, but you'll survive.
To me, being trapped in a system of enslavement by false freedom hurts way more... but I'm in danger out ranting again.


[edit on 11-9-2007 by BitRaiser]

Hey seentoomuch! Just a quick thought. I understand your point of view, especially since it appears to be something that you know, personally.

But, these 'personal' experiences can be a bit misleading as well.
For example- Alittle off topic, but... I have a family memeber involved in a 'Catholic Church' scandal. He was wrongly accussed, and deemed guilty until proven innocent by the church authorities and taken away from his job. Did he really do anything to deserve this; no! and, I know first hand, and personally that this is true. Does this mean that no priests molested anyone; again, No! But, it does just prove that the 'church officials' obviously cant handel the situation one way or another.

I do believe that there are people who want the drama and the violence, but I'd like to believe that most of the people there on Saturday will hold out on violence to all extremes (and I know this personally too, since I will be one of the marchers)

All Im saying is that personal experience is one of the most relevant ways of exploring a situation, but it doesn't mean that all situations will follow suit, thats all...

I'm all for the march and wish our troops would come home like many other people. I didn't finish watching the video, but don't some cities have ordnances saying you can't put fliers up on poles or any other fixed public objects? Maybe Washington has something to that effect? The officer did say you can't deface whatever that thing was. Traffic box? It seems they brought too much attention to themselves by doing that. For all we know the cop thought it was perma glue they were using to put up that sign. I would have stopped her to. The protesters could have just stuck with the good ole sign and board. Walk around in circles.

Like I said, I'm only commenting on the first initial cop and protestor tangle. Maybe things would have turn out different if they wouldn't have aroused the hornets nest by wheat gluing signs to that box?


[edit on 11-9-2007 by Quazi176]

reply to post by nowayreally


That's a wonderful point that you have made. And it is one that we should keep in mind in all things. NO entire group is ALL bad, nor entirely good. It's always those FEW bad apples that will ruin it for all. Thank you for pointing this out.

reply to post by Quazi176


I think the issue was the adhesive that was being used. According to a new city ordinance; a bio-degradable substance had to be used for posting banners. That's why the lady kept telling the officer that it was wheat-based, and that it was legal. It wasn't WHERE they were posting.