Does it really matter who we vote for or even if we vote?

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posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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I still have much of your work to read. The 2008 elections are coming up soon though.

My question is does it really matter who we vote for in 2008, or if we even vote, since the illuminiti and others already have control of the government?

As far as I can discern, it doesn't matter if the president is a republican or democrat, they both work towards one large goal that may or may not be visible to the public.

If a candidate did step forth who really wanted to change things, wouldn't the people behind the government threaten and/or assassinate the president if was going to go against their wishes?

Therefore the president really doesn't have much of a say in things, except if they were minor enough not to make much of a difference in the overall plan.

Or am I wrong? And a strong president could go against these strong societies and people with mega wealth, and really change something for the better, and move their plans backwards. Even if he could change something, would that change even last long though? There would be new elections in another 4 years anyhow? Right?

Then there is the election collage, in which an unpopular president could win. Not to mention the possibly of vote rigging.

Therefore back to the main question, does it really matter who we vote for or even if we vote?




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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Have you seen the documentary Spin? It shows an example of this that actually happened. One of the candidates a while back was completely blocked out by the people in control of the media. They did it in favor of senior Bush. They guy wanted change and they booted him...

Wasn't there problems last election with 100 thousands votes not being counted? I am not American so, I am not sure about this but, I swore it was on the news.

By the looks of it, there is a block on the free voice...



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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I haven't seen that documentary. I didn't know one of the candidates was blocked out. I do know Ross Perot was pushed out awhile back. Now the media is basically backstabbing Ron Paul.

I seen youtube videos that show where the media blatantly lied about Ron, and make excuse after excuse why Ron is doing so well in their polls. Then they dissed basically everyone on ATS by calling those conspiracy people with their tin foil conspiracy hats. They grouped everyone in the wacky conspiracy theorists who didn't believe along the lines of main stream media, and who they say the top candidates are, and who they believe you should vote for.

There were some threads discussing how the media is black balling him, and basically don't think he should be running. In one clip, I saw that the news caster actually said he should be banned from the debates.

Out of all the years I have lived, he is the only candidate I actually agree with his stated views 100%. From what is happing in the media, the higher ups hate him and his views. I don't think they want the changes he would make. If he did make it presidency though, I have a bad feeling they either would threaten him so much that he would be blackmailed to do their bidding, or they would assassinate him.

From what I know about him, he is smart enough to know what he is getting into. I wonder for how long he can hold on his own though. Or he could get the popular vote, but loose because of rigging and/or the electoral collage.
Even if they allow him to win, how much will his hands be tied?

Therefore, back to my main question...Does it really matter who you vote for?



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 09:47 PM
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Howdy Mystery_Lady,

You ask a question that I am hearing more and more often. In the past, I always maintained that if you do not vote then you have no right to gripe about what happens. I still believe this but since the (s)election of 2000 and the sorry spectacle of 2004 and the advent of computer voting machines with no paper trail and hence, no way of confirming the votes, there does seem to be reason to doubt the effectiveness of our vote.

But, always remember this --- there are more good people in the USA than there are devious and corrupt people who want to control us. If we would simply wise up and then rise up, we can make a difference, now and in the future. But this will entail reaching a large swath of the American public who are now caught in the Matrix created by the electronic mass media. This media control is firmly in the hands of self-styled globalists whose agenda is to destroy the United States as a sovereign, wealthy and independent nation.

With the 2008 election soon upon us, the picture looks grim. Both the leading Republican and Democratic candidates are carbon copies of each other and none seem willing to even fully address the real issues facing America. Plus they are all part of the same system which got us into the mess we’re in today. There is a reason for this. Globalist and former head of the Federal Reserve System (which is neither part of the Federal Government nor has any money reserves) Paul Volcker once summed it up this way, “We control them both.”

Is the situation hopeless? No. One glimmer of hope is Republican candidate Ron Paul who not only addresses the real issues but speaks openly of a return to constitutional government. Paul is one of the only members of Congress to turn down the perks, special privileges and expensive junkets offered by lobbyists. As a medical doctor, he understands the plight of many Americans caught in a broken healthcare system and faced with outrageous drug prices. He appears to truly care for the people of this country.

You may not agree with everything that Ron Paul says, but here is a chance to test, if not right, the system. If everyone would vote for Ron Paul and he still loses, then everyone would know that our elections are rigged. If he is assassinated or dies under unusual circumstances, then we would know this was a conspiracy and there would a massive cry for true justice. And, on the off chance that he is elected, we could see what happens under true constitutional government. One thing is for certain --- Ron Paul could not possibly be worse than our last few presidents.

So vote and vote for Ron Paul. But, more importantly, get out and talk to your friends, family and neighbors. Make them see that this may be the last chance they have to vote for the United States of America. For if any one of the leading globalist candidates gets in office, we will soon be citizens of the North American Union.

Jim Marrs



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Jim Marrs


But, always remember this --- there are more good people in the USA than there are devious and corrupt people who want to control us.

So vote and vote for Ron Paul. But, more importantly, get out and talk to your friends, family and neighbors. Make them see that this may be the last chance they have to vote for the United States of America.
Jim Marrs


THank you Mr. Marrs!! That was a great post! You are right, the good outweights the bad here, its just when good people dont do anything at all, the bad guys win..

I also respect your stance on this issue.. You are not running around with a bullhorn yelling in peoples ears! I agree, I speak to my friends and family, however beyond that, Im not going out yelling in peoples ears to try to get a point across.. If we take the advice of Mr. Marrs here I think it would help out many of our problems here!

Thank you agin Jim! You are a true leader in my book. And my first post to you, but have been in the background reading everything you have to offer us!



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Mystery_Lady, Jim Marrs,

Not being from the USA really doesn't tie me down to reply with things in future i.e.: US Federal Elections, which may have an effect sooner or later on bordering Countries.

I really don't think I have a conspiracy mind in that some things in war are going on, is the plan of someone or group above the US President(s) since at least Pres. Bush Senior.

This Bilderberg/Illuminati/Skull & Bones/Psis? and Freemasonry L32, may have a universal effect on Presidential ELctions, certainly how the Presidency is manipulated during terms. Just seems to me there is a direction & control element hidden behind the Cobb-webs that really should be fully analyzed in mass by all North American peoples wanting to work at learning the Real Truth. Who you elect is at least as important as who you don't.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by Jim Marrs But, always remember this --- there are more good people in the USA than there are devious and corrupt people who want to control us. If we would simply wise up and then rise up, we can make a difference, now and in the future.


I'm trying not to be pessimistic... But I cannot believe that people in the USA (can't speak for anywhere else) are truly good, or trying to be good, or even know what it means to be good. If a people (or majority thereof) do not know what it means to be good, then how can we expect them to pick reasonably good representatives? How can we expect them to know what's good for themselves, for the country?

The people that I meet on the street would remove the current boot of oppression and shift it elsewhere. They're not above opportunistically taking advantage of others...

(This is, of course, aside from my lack of faith in the current voting system -- between the electronic votes, and the college electoral votes that overrule the people's votes.)

[edit on 22-9-2007 by Diseria]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 06:37 AM
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Jim,

Thank you for the reply. Actually, Ron Paul is the only candidate with in my life time that I have agree with 100%. Yes I will be voting for him if he gets the Republican ticket. I'll try my best to vote for him in the primaries, even though I never did before.

Diseria,

I would say most here are good, and want what is best for the US. The media, entertainment on TV, and even the school system has been turning upside down the meaning of good. Absolute values are being lost for moral relativism. That has hurt everyone greatly. Instead of calling a thief a thief, now many tend to say what a poor soul that he was driven to steal because ...... Was it really his fault?

There was a good joke I heard awhile back about this. In the end it was also scary, since it also ringed true. I forget the joke to actually tell it with punch line and all, sorry. The jist of it was different ideologies people have, and how they would play out when confronting a person who had a gun.

The one where the people had moral relativism wanted to ask why the gunman was doing this to see if he is in the right according to his circumstances. The other was to protect yourself first, and ask questions later if the guy was still alive.

Basically, the average person walking down a street have no idea about what is really going on. I think the movie matrix explanes it very well. Those who are blinded, are living in a world created/shaped by someone else. The someone else in this case happen to be the elite. They have no clue, and would deny it strenuously if told the truth. People would fight and argue to keep that version of the truth. Most are not ready for the truth.

Unlike the movie Matrix, the elites are panning to pull everything down around us sooner or later. When this happens, those who are blind will have their world shattered, and be in total confusion.

Or they may be willing to give up enough to all freedoms to even be able to keep a resemblance of what they have without the elites having to shatter reality around them.

Even those of us who know or have even an inkling of what is going on, don't really know what we can do to fight against such a force. It does seem like there is no force greater than these elitist groups change and shaping our future without our consent.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by Jim Marrs
 


I think it would be very dangerous to trust Ron Paul to change things. I recommend voting for him, but in all honesty, the president is just a puppet to the real government. Kennedy was killed for not playing along. Clinton was asked to stop asking questions.

What needs to take place is mass demonstrations. This will bring attention to these things to the public, who currently have no frigging idea at all about anything. Its not in the mass media so it doesnt exist to them. But a large demonstration would most likely be covered all over the world. 10000 people standing outside the White House.

See more in this ATS thread. We need to do something people. Dont believe you are powerless, thats exactly what they want you to believe so you dont cause attention or arrange things to get attention.



[edit on 29-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:11 AM
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It's true, the president is only the figurehead for a far more complex and far less transparent government. One whose structure will be found nowhere in the Constitution. Is Ron Paul THE answer? Of course not. But putting someone who is a PROVEN constitutionalist into the presidency will at least give us the opportunity to start to get things back on-track.

Diseria :: Of course people are looking out for themselves. Human nature. The key to this mess is to make people understand that getting back to the Constitution IS in their best interests. We're all being lied to at an ever-increasing pace. People need to start seeing that and understanding that it directly affects them.

Copernicus :: We're walking a very thin line in this country. With the media nearly entirely controlled by the men-behind-the-curtain, putting 10,000 people on the streets in DC (or anywhere) could quickly be spun to appear as something entirely different than what it was. 'They' need to be put on-notice to be sure. But we also need to be very, very careful to not give them an opportunity to tighten the screws.

We need to turn the next election on its head. We need to educate and organize the citizenry to:

1. Understand why the Constitution is important for the survival of the country

2. See how the Constitution is being dismantled by the very government that pledged to uphold and protect it.

3. Appreciate that the only possible solution is to put people into government --- starting at the top --- who have been PROVEN to uphold and support the Constitution.

We no longer have the luxury of trudging to the polls to choose the 'lesser of two evils'. If we do, pulling that handle will be akin to pulling the handle on the toilet. And the results, sadly, will be the same.


[edit on 29-9-2007 by jtma508]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:13 AM
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I have always advocated that, in the UK at least, another vote category be including on the ballot paper stating

'NONE OF THE ABOVE'

Suppose they had an election and no one voted??



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by jtma508
 


How are you going to educate people when the mass media is all they listen to, and its being controlled by the very powers we are trying to change?

And what kind of society do you live in, when you cant have a demonstration because you are seriously AFRAID of things getting even worse? How can that be a hope for the future? Its like... yeah, they are beating us now, but if we do something, they will start using their tazors.

So you have a choice between bad and worse? How about going back to good?



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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There is another reason to vote, if they are going to steal the vote, make them steal millions not just thousands. This will make it more visible to the people still trusting Diebolds Election Selectors.

Also 1 vote is what you get when you vote, you can get 100s of votes by discussing and talking to friends about what is going on. Assuming your points are valid and agreed with. Furthermore you may learn to cast your one vote differently. The rich by the vote by having their opinions transmitted by the dollar across the media. We as a people have far more ability to engage people with what we have learned. We may not have the megaphone, but we have the numbers.

Do not vote for Hillary, please, did you know she use to be on the Wallmart board of directors, and use to be a Republican.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Chorlton
 


Yea Chorlton, we actually have that category of vote in Australia


We either write a naughty message on the ballot and not fill any of the boxes, or simply not fill any boxes at all...Just fold the paper up and drop it in the ballot box, either way...

Sure, its apathetic, but if you really can't find a reason to vote for any candidate, what is one to do ?

Peace



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Rilence
 


I suggested to my local MP that I was interested in starting a 'No Vote' party, and that if I did he would be out of a job as well over 40% of the local electorate didnt vote at the last election.
On that basis Nationaly and if I was leader I should be the PM !!



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Chorlton
 


*LMAO*

Man, you sure would be PM, no doubt about it !!

Hell, I'd *not* vote for you


But back to the topic at hand...One thing that has always annoyed me about Australia as a democracy is, you get fined $54 everytime you dont vote in a local, state or federal election...Unless you have a valid excuse...

Don't know of too many other countries where voting is compulsory...Frankly, participating in the voting process should always be volunatary....

[edit on 29-9-2007 by Rilence]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:32 AM
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Voters, politicians, party's, campaigns, parades, whistlestops and all the other trappings of American Elections have become just entertainment for the masses. The elections have already been decided by the Corpratacracy or Kleptocracy as some have called it.

Of course I will vote and go to the fund raising events and even contribute to a candidates campaign, knowing fullwell it's an exercise in futility.

The corrupt, the powerful machines behind the scenes are the powerful ones; already printing the Amero. drawing up the NAU documents with never a thought as to how their mechanizations will affect people.
The only consideration is for the God of Profit and maximum benefits for the elite shareholders.

Even war and military lives are just gamepieces in their sick obsession of greed and power. You will soon be chiped so the game can have more graphics and strategy on their flow charts and gameboards.

Personally, you are nothing, just a number on the tax rolls. They laugh at your Patriotism, Nationalism and flagwaving. Meer symbols of their control and power.

They are not even an enemy to revolt against. Your screams for Justice fall on deaf ears.

It's a brave new world; welcome to the monkey house!!!!!!

[edit on 29-9-2007 by whaaa]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Then do something about it instead of sitting here writing meaningless posts. Take part in a demonstration or do anything to get the message out what is going on. I cant believe you guys are just sitting around like sheep accepting what happens.

Burma is even better than the americans.



[edit on 29-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by Rilence
 



Now youll love this.
In 1968 I was prosecuted for not voting in WA. In court the prosecution asked why I didnt vote. I stated as my defence that there was no one on the ballot paper that I could support, and there was no option to vote for no one hence my democratic right was being interferred with by forcing me to vote for someone I didnt believe in. Consequently it was pointless voting.
Case was dismissed.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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The problem I have with the whole system here in the UK, which probably applies to many other "Democratic" countries too, is the idea of career politicians. Here we have a bunch of people who want us to pay them to tell us how we should live and to impose their ideas on us all. Time and time again we see those in power, across the political spectrum, involved in corruption and dishonesty but rarely are they held to the same standards as the rest of us.

The whole idea of democracy is a complete illusion. We have two main parties and a bunch of smaller alternatives who, realistically will never hold any power but are there to give the illusion of choice. Behind the front men and women of government, the talking heads we see on tv every day, are the senior civil servants, the old boy network, who have their tainted fingers in many pies and wield great power despite the fact nobody ever voted them into positions of authority.

We have have to scrutinise the current systems and look at where the campaign money comes from. Here we find the professional lobbyists, pimping the wishes of the big corporate players (and possibly foreign powers!) with very deep pockets, willing to buy influence across the board.
My personal view of this is that it's blatant bribery and corruption. Any elected or appointed official accepting a penny from these lobbyists for political favours or "aye" votes on issues affecting their agendas / businesses should be kicked out of government in a very public manner and never hold public office again. After all, they are supposed to be in office to represent OUR wishes and well being, not what's best for corporate profit and the small percent of mega-rich.

So, in summary, I just don't see any point in voting. It doesn't matter which major party wins, we the taxpaying workers get screwed and lied to either way


[edit on 29-9-2007 by Britguy]





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