Grover and Marg I love you both to pieces and respect the both of you and your views but on this I have to disagree. Those folks in Washington DC had already decided before the general spoke what they thought; they treated him with disrespect and contempt. The general handled himself with grace and dignity which is way more then I can say about them.

I also must remind you the dems confirmed him further more I've heard from more then one source that the surge is working. Believe me I have a personnal stake in this and would love to see it end soon and my brother come home.

Oh the ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE being displayed on this thread. It is actually worse than that being exhibited by the Dems that are soiling a Hero...

Regardless of your "PAST" connection to the Military, answer this.

Not to me, but to yourself..

How many of you write and correspond with soldiers that are REALLY over there, living the War day to day?

I mean on a regular basis, so that you get to know them and they feel comfortable telling you how they really feel? Exactly

Yet, you find it perfectly acceptable to say this..

Even if that means misleading the American public while lying for Bush.

he could never bring himself to buck the white house.

This so-called progress report has been written by the white house for him and he has two choices, read it verbatium, or tell the truth.

Your arrogance is only surpassed by your complete ignorance of the real situation.

Grover admits protesting, that pretty much spells it out as far as he is concerned and we are all familiar with the often repeated Socialist agenda.

Wonder what Petreus was doing while Grover was out carrying a sign, oh yeah, He was becoming an American Hero.

The Socialist Libs don't deserve to clean that man's boots and the only good thing to come out of this is that all of America is now able to see the hypocrisy that is the TRUE calling of the Liberal and their hate filled surrender strategy.

The really funny thing is that the report was being condemned by the Socialists even before they knew what was in it.

I really hope that all of America gets to see this and understand it for what it is.

It's only a shame that the entire country can't see what you all are writing as well and know exactly the background you are pulling from to justify making assumptions about a TRUE AMERICAN HERO..

HOW DARE you call him a liar.

You do not know him
You have NOT done 1/10 of what he has for this country
You have NOT sacrificed as he has


DUTY
HONOR
COUNTRY

For far fewer years than General Petreus, these words were drilled into my head.

For us it was also

God
Country
Corps

To imagine that he would lie for any reason is an affront to all that he is and all that we are not.

Yet you do

I can not even imagine being that arrogant...

This is just my .02cents on this thread.

I have no intention of further debating any of you here as you obviously have an agenda against this fine man and without a doubt lack the qualifications or history to be commenting on his report or life in general.

So, carry on the slam fest, I am sure the good General has weathered worse, like bullets and bombs.

I just wonder how many of you are at the airports spitting on the troops as they depart.

That is correct, just like in Vietnam..

What you are saying about this man is no different.

I am sure the General would rather be spit on then thought of as a liar. Having been there and back, I know this.

Thank you for your time.

Semper

Marg,

I'm breaking my "No Reply" to this thread to answer you because even though we have disagreed, I do respect you.

Your commitments and concerns as to why we are there are admirable and even to an extent, understandable. Though I completely disagree, I can understand you.

This is not however relevant to anyones accusations that General Petraeus would in anyway sacrifice his Honor and lie for anyone or any reason.

This man has an INCREDIBLE past. One any young man or woman would/should envy and respect.

He is truly a living hero.

After numerous awards and accommodation's, obtaining his PHD, he Commanded both the 101st Airborne and 82nd Airborne unit. WOW

That even impresses a Marine.

Haiti

Bosnia and

3 tours in Iraq

Awards

Decorations and Badges

* Defense Distinguished Service Medal
* Distinguished Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Clusters)
* Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Clusters)
* Legion of Merit (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
* Bronze Star Medal (with “V” Device)
* Defense Meritorious Service Medal
* Meritorious Service Medal (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
* Joint Service Commendation Medal
* Army Commendation Medal (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
* Joint Service Achievement Medal
* Army Achievement Medal
* Combat Action Badge
* Expert Infantryman Badge
* Master Parachutist Badge
* Air Assault Badge
* Ranger Tab
* Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge
* Army Staff Identification Badge
* NATO Meritorious Service Medal
* State Department Superior Honor Award
* Gold Award of the Iraqi Order of the Date Palm

That is not a man that lies for anyone.

Not the President, or anyone...

Semper

Marg,

Most Soldiers, Myself included, are VERY PROUD of this Government.

They are Proud to be fighting for the oppressed people in Iraq.

I am VERY Proud of what I have done for my Government and would do it all over again.

I am EVEN more proud of those brave men and women, some I call friend, that are there fighting because I am too old and too injured now to fight with them.

I too die a little each time one of them gives their life.

I cry almost daily Marg, but not for the reason you might think.

I don't cry because they died. there is no greater Honor for a soldier.

I cry because I could not be there and die with them. Ask your husband, he will know what i am feeling.

The gist of all of this to me is NOT whether we are "winning" or "losing" or anything else. It is the respect a man like Petraeus should be shown that is lacking here.

That we, no matter what our past affiliation, should not sit in our comfortable arm chairs and pass judgment on a man that is fighting the good fight, following orders and doing his job; all the while risking his life for us.

Whether or not we should be there is for another thread and has been debated in excess with neither side gaining ground.

On a side note.

I have several friends there now, two that currently work for me and will have their jobs waiting for them to come home. They actually risk life and limb working for me, and now are in Iraq working for all of us.

I currently write anywhere from 3 to 5 letters each and everyday to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. They write back and we have developed a good relationship.

The actual sentiment over there is VERY positive and uplifting. They are not being false with me and Petraeus is not being false with us.

See, when I first started on this site, I read so much about "this is wrong" and "that is wrong", about how we should not be there and how so many want out. So much in the main stream news as well. The short time I was there was too early in the conflict to make an opinion.
Well I don't trust someone else, especially when I can get the information myself. So I started writing the troops and asking the questions myself.

Then my friends went there, one at least is not coming back, one is on his second voluntary tour, and I get THE REAL information.

In short that is the reason you don't see me commenting on the Iraq threads anymore. There is no reason to.
Most that are jumping in and saying what they do, are doing so either emotionally with no basis, out of ignorance, or trusting the liberal media.

I know the real truth. So I let the 'nay sayers" continue on as they are essentially harmless and just venting their frustration never completely realizing how foolish they sound.

Semper

Well I have thought for a long time now that both party's are as bad as each other and the attacks on Petreus seems to confirm this. No war can won with Rumsfeld or Congress meddling in the day to day running of the war or military strategy. Other then redeploying US troops from places like South Korea to give Petreus more manpower the politicians should just let him do his job.

Sure it took to long for the right man to be appointed to the job but that is hardly Petreus. Any of the Dems who voted for the war in the first place showed just as much poor judgment as there Republican counter parts the only difference is that the Dems baulked when the going got tough and the Bush admin ensured that the war was so botched that there would be very little public support for it.

Semper it is no sin, no crime, no dishonor in protesting what your country is doing if you feel in your heart of hearts is wrong.

And while I respect your service, I served too... there is no honor in war... it is killing and destruction... nothing more or less than a failure of reason.

I do not mind dying for an honorable cause, but to die for a lie... well that is a waste. And, in my heart of hearts, I firmly believe that the reasons we have been giving for why we are in Iraq are lies.

BTW no where do I call Petreus a liar but at the same time considering Bushes track record of dumping generals who disagree with him... it is not surprising he would keep his mouth shut and say what his boss wants to hear.

I served thank you very much, not in the Marines but we still put our lives on the line to help and save others and I am so bloody tired of our heroes bull crap... they are doing a job they are paid to do and doing what they are told on pain of the Military Code of Justice... there is nothing heroic about it... that is not to say that there are not heroes out there, but just because you put on a uniform and follow orders does not make you a hero.


[edit on 10-9-2007 by grover]

BTW opposition to this ill-conceived war has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, there are plenty of conservatives out there not only opposed to this war but to the policies of the bush administration as well.

Semper when you start spouting your "socialist agenda" bull crap you start sounding like a broken record.

Get it through your head that being a liberal is not, I repeat is not a monolithic ideology... on top of that, there is only one party in this nation and it has two wings; one slightly left (the Democrats) of the other, and one (the Republicans) who is slightly right of the other. And, that party is the party of the owner class of which neither you are I are a member. They rule by divide and conquer, by convincing everybody that they are in opposition to the somebody else... and despite the propaganda... both sides of this party are staunchly capitalistic.

The real left, of actual socialists, communists and anarchists never stood a chance and were effectively stomped out by the late 70's if not before.


[edit on 10-9-2007 by grover]

I served thank you very much, not in the Marines but we still put our lives on the line to help and save others and I am so bloody tired of our heroes bull crap... they are doing a job they are paid to do and doing what they are told on pain of the Military Code of Justice... there is nothing heroic about it... that is not to say that there are not heroes out there, but just because you put on a uniform and follow orders does not make you a hero.
[edit on 10-9-2007 by grover]

I am not BTW belittling our troops in any way in saying that. I have nothing but respect for them and feel strongly feel that if they are to be used, they should be used rarely and for honest and legitimate causes. Not a war sold by fear and marketing and lies.

But, the fact remains they are just people who are doing a job... the dirty, nasty, evil job of killing. And there is nothing glorious or honorable or decent about it.

When someone goes above and beyond what is expected of them, that is a hero... save the word for that.

************************************************************************

Back to the subject at hand: Congress may be tough on Petreus... but after 6 years of a rubber stamp congress for the bush administration, we have forgotten THAT is what congress is supposed to do.... grilling administration figures and putting their feet to the fire. Its called oversight... its not pretty but if congress had been doing its job over the past 6 years of Republican rule, the bush administration would not have gotten away with as much as it has and possibly we would not be in this mess called Iraq.

There used to be a time believe it or not when parties, both Republican and Democratic not only supported their respected presidents, but stood up to them as well when need be.

Its not a Democrat/Republican thing... they are not supposed to play nice, to play pussy foot with the administration... they are supposed to keep it on its toes and keep it constitutional.


[edit on 11-9-2007 by grover]

O.k. so we are fighting over a political smoke screen because thats all this report is. Everyone by now should know this damn report is just to keep our troops over there...Why the hell did they make it so the report took place in SEPTEMBER and around the 9/11 date?? Duhh... Well this government being Republicans and Democrats are great at cooking up smoke screens and the fact that this report was given at the time selected to to create political cover for both parties. Republicans/Democrats are the same damn people who work under the same roof. My tax money is still taken by the government and that government is in large ran by the same damn people who wear a (R) or (D) beside their name.
I guess us political crazies were all wrong when we called out the NAFTA trade agreement which has just allowed mexican truckers to bring goods all over the U.S. which I recall some in here not saying any names told us that this administration wasn't going to allow it. Well they did Bush Sr. help put this together Clinton pushed it along and W. Bush inked it in so by that means these are the same people. And the attacks on Petreus are smoke screens they mean nothing....damn, wake up. All this is just to take the publics mind off the war and keep the public off balance on immigration all of which both parties are responsible for. If you wanna point fingers then go look in the mirror and point at the mirror for electing these idiots to keep screwing ALL of us.

Noe let me get this straight... we have 130,000 troops in Iraq and they are not enough to secure Baghdad much less any place else so we add another 30,000 + in a surge with such resounding success that we can now start removing said 30,000.

What is this a bloody shell game?

So... we all know the Iraqi military and police are neither.... so to claim that they will stand up as we stand down is a joke.... now will someone tell me why do we think those areas in Baghdad (because its not the whole city) or Anwar province (because its not the whole province) will remain "peaceful" after we withdraw as opposed to returning to the bloodbath?

From what I have garnered, the areas in Baghdad and Anwar that are "peaceful" are not because of the U.S. presence but because we are either paying local tribes to turn against Al Qeada in Iraq, or because the ethnic cleaning in those areas are substantially complete.

Whomever actually expected substance or honesty from this so-called progress report (and this administration) is naive.

The reason the libs are attacking General Pentreus is that they are invested in the defeat of our brave men and women in Iraq. Not to mention H. Reed, N. Polocy get there marching orders from moveon.org.