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Putin to Visit Iran - Moscow to Honor Bushehr Pledge

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posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

reply to post by Ivanova
 


I've been watching this thread for a while, and I did some light reading on Putin. I'd have to say, the man is quite a genius in the way he handles foreign policy issues. It seems like he's applying the principles of his favourite sport Judo in dealing with his rivals. I can see how you have such a high respect for him.

But what exactly is a Tsar by your definition, and how would Putin end up becoming Tsar?




Russia was an Orthodox Christian monarchy for a 1000 years.
Tsarism and Russian Orthodox Christianity are joined together
to create the whole Russian soul. We are seeing the resurrection
of Orthodox Christianity in Russia... and in Putin, we are seeing
the resurrection of the Tsar.

Is Putin of royal blood ? Is he descended from the Putjatins as
some suspect ?

I think Putin has a secret history... and a secret destiny...
that has not yet been revealed.




[edit on 10-9-2007 by Ivanova]




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Europe is dependent on Russian gas and oil.. Tsarist Russia will
become the leader of Europe... it is well on its way !



How would that be progress? How would that benefit the Russian people?
(Wouldn't that be going backwards?)

If Putin wants Russia to be the worlds only "Super Power", shouldn't Putin learn from USA?

I appreciate your posts, but I can't see any of that happening. I think its more about business and money, than nationalism.

No one has yet explained how the Russian people are benefiting from Russia's great and vast resources and economic independence from the world, and social isolation from the US?

Putin has gone backwards on human rights, and has stifled free enterprise and freedom of speech. How is that good for a country and it's people?

I can't believe who some people say they "admire", or call "hero". Putin probably is an extremely intelligent man, and in that sense we have hope that he doesn't do the less than intelligent things you're describing.

In "czarist Russia" would you be able to express yourself freely about anything political? What would happen to free enterprise?

So oppressing the people is one of the main ingredients to becoming a world super power?

I admire the Russian people, but why are they just letting him do that? They deserve to benefit from Russian prosperity and resources, they deserve freedom of speech and free enterprise.

I don't know about this, unless you can explain it to me.



[edit on 10-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Electro38]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Electro38

Putin has gone backwards on human rights, and has stifled free enterprise and freedom of speech. How is that good for a country and it's people?


From what little research on Putin I've done, it appears that the argument concerning limiting freedom of speech is a disinfo campaign aimed at Putin. If the sources are correct, what Putin did was to censor violence and nudity in Russian TV, as requested and supported by the people.

I can't speak about the other two charges, as I'm still researching this guy. But so far I am quite amazed by his skills as a politician.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by Electro38

Putin has gone backwards on human rights, and has stifled free enterprise and freedom of speech. How is that good for a country and it's people?


From what little research on Putin I've done, it appears that the argument concerning limiting freedom of speech is a disinfo campaign aimed at Putin. If the sources are correct, what Putin did was to censor violence and nudity in Russian TV, as requested and supported by the people.

I can't speak about the other two charges, as I'm still researching this guy. But so far I am quite amazed by his skills as a politician.


It's cool that you're doing research, but do you believe everything you read? Well, maybe you can help me figure this out with your research if posted.

I'm really just trying to learn about this too.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 04:13 PM
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Russia is a riddle
wrapped in a mystery
inside an enigma.


Winston Churchill



To truly understand Russia, one must have
a Russian soul. Don't look for an American
secular pluralistic democracy in Russia...
that is not the Russian soul.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Electro38
 


You say you want to understand Russia ?

Let me give you a tip... although it might be difficult for you to accept.

If you want to understand other cultures, you should not come from
the premise that everyone wants to be an American... and this is
especially true for Russia.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Ivanova
reply to post by Electro38
 


You say you want to understand Russia ?

Let me give you a tip... although it might be difficult for you to accept.

If you want to understand other cultures, you should not come from
the premise that everyone wants to be an American... and this is
especially true for Russia.


I believe that not all governments want to be like America, but most people in oppressed governments would love to be like Americans.

I can absolutely believe what you said, it makes a lot of sense.

Not everyone can understand freedom, or like it. But it's sad to see a great country (Russia) that was moving towards a more free society with improved human rights to now move away from that.

America, or Americans aren't the only model for a free society, you have the UK, France, Swiss, etc.

Are you from Russia?

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Electro38]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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If you want to understand other cultures, you should not come from
the premise that everyone wants to be an American... and this is
especially true for Russia.


Quite true Ivanova and that is why US foreign policy is flawed. It is still based on the euphoria of post WW2 in the 1960s.



NJ Mooch wrote:

China has taken care of the DPRK, and now it is Russia's turn to take care of Iran. This is what I make of all this and so far. Remember who just got elected in Iran, that one person can be a part of something that helps remove foolish people from power in Iran. A military option is the last step in any campaign, but the political one is just getting started.


China is not the enemy. Militant Islam is.

In reference to North Korea, North Korea has shifted it's nuclear weapons effort to a secret project in Burma aka Myanmar. where two Pakistani nuclear scientists who assisted Al Qaeda fled.

Since then Russia has agreed to supply Myanmar with nuclear reactors capable of breeding Plutonium and to train Myanmar's nuclear technicians.

In breach of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty Russia is supplying nuclear capabilities to states engaged in support for Islamic terrorism who have ambitions to create nuclear weaponry.

Russia is waging undeclared nuclear war by proxy through terrorist groups.

Incidentally China is as distressed by Russia's support for Myanmar's nuclear program as the West is about Iran.

Ironically because China is so hungry for crude oil to support it's industrial expansion, it is also Iran's biggest customer.

USA and China need to recognise their common self interest and join together to stop Russia seeding nuclear conflict by proxy. China needs oil, or alternate technology which frees them from it's dependence.

These are the strategic complexities which prevented adoption of the Kyoto accords.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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Quite true Ivanova and that is why US foreign policy is flawed. It is still based on the euphoria of post WW2 in the 1960s.




Completely agree. This was what caused our going into Iraq and subsequent failure there.

To say our government can be very arrogant, and stupid is an understatement.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Electro38
It's cool that you're doing research, but do you believe everything you read? Well, maybe you can help me figure this out with your research if posted.

I'm really just trying to learn about this too.


I'd post it, but I don't thing this is the thread for it, it seems to have derailed far from the subject of the OP. Maybe Ivanova can open a new thread about Putin -- it's only logical that someone from Russia does it. At any rate it should be quite fascinating.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by Electro38
It's cool that you're doing research, but do you believe everything you read? Well, maybe you can help me figure this out with your research if posted.

I'm really just trying to learn about this too.


I'd post it, but I don't thing this is the thread for it, it seems to have derailed far from the subject of the OP. Maybe Ivanova can open a new thread about Putin -- it's only logical that someone from Russia does it. At any rate it should be quite fascinating.


That would be great. He's from Russia (Ivanova)? This would be really nice.

If this happens, I'll try to refrain from the typical, Russia vs. US cliche`. (Which I think I'm a little guilty of in previous posts above). Instead, my posts would be more "student" oriented. It would be great to learn more, about Russia this way.

Ivanova, can you please start a new thread. Thanks,

Students of the "Russian Soul".

[edit on 11-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 11-9-2007 by Electro38]



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 05:32 AM
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Russia's GDP for 2006 was 1.7 trillion dollars. U.S.'s was 13 trillion. China 10 trillion.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by deadjed]

[edit on 12-9-2007 by deadjed]



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 06:17 AM
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To return to the subject:

Russia has always backed Iran's investment in nuclear power and it makes good business sense for them to continue to do so.

Iran is growing and using more and more of it's own oil supply for domestic use. This means that it will be exporting less and less... and thus the price of oil with increase. Some are saying that Iran has already hit it's peak production, so there's little chance of offsetting this through increased production.

If Iran gets nuclear power, they can subsedize their energy consumption that way. This means they'd be able to continue to export oil.
They'll no doubt remember their good friends the Russians and if a new coldwar kicks up, guess who's gonna get the Iranian oil?

Seems to me that the US would have been much better off playing nice with Iran and helping with it's nuclear power program instead of playing "bad cop"...



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
To return to the subject:

Seems to me that the US would have been much better off playing nice with Iran and helping with it's nuclear power program instead of playing "bad cop"...


Do you think there's anything to the crazy stuff their President says? Why do they let that guy speak like that? (Ahamadinejad).

While building their nuke technology and have your president say he wants to destroy Isreal. Didn't they think that would cause some problems?

Does anyone have any ideas why they (the Iranian religious leaders) let Ahmadinejad say things like that?

How could the US "play nice" to a govt. that sponsors terrorism?

[edit on 12-9-2007 by Electro38]



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Electro38
Do you think there's anything to the crazy stuff their President says? Why do they let that guy speak like that? (Ahamadinejad).

You forgetting the whole axis of evil speeches, or the If your not with us your with the terrorists speeches?

Same song different tune....


While building their nuke technology and have your president say he wants to destroy Isreal. Didn't they think that would cause some problems?
They have ZERO nuclear weapons at this time, Israel has 300+
Wounder why they want them out of the middle east?

While We the United States are drawing up plans to destroy our 3rd in 7 years...



Does anyone have any ideas why they (the Iranian religious leaders) let Ahmadinejad say things like that?
They are about to be attacked?
its not like they have anything to lose here might as well go out running your mouth...


How could the US "play nice" to a govt. that sponsors terrorism?
Is this a serious question?
Our CIA makes Al'Qaeda look like amateurs



posted on Sep, 12 2007 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Electro38
 


The answers to all your questions are in this thread: Understanding Iran Dis-info Campaign

Once you understand that you've been a casualty in an information war, things start to make a lot more sense.



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by C0le

Originally posted by Electro38
Do you think there's anything to the crazy stuff their President says? Why do they let that guy speak like that? (Ahamadinejad).

You forgetting the whole axis of evil speeches, or the If your not with us your with the terrorists speeches?

Same song different tune....


While building their nuke technology and have your president say he wants to destroy Isreal. Didn't they think that would cause some problems?
They have ZERO nuclear weapons at this time, Israel has 300+
Wounder why they want them out of the middle east?

While We the United States are drawing up plans to destroy our 3rd in 7 years...



Does anyone have any ideas why they (the Iranian religious leaders) let Ahmadinejad say things like that?
They are about to be attacked?
its not like they have anything to lose here might as well go out running your mouth...


How could the US "play nice" to a govt. that sponsors terrorism?
Is this a serious question?
Our CIA makes Al'Qaeda look like amateurs


I am really trying to understand why these things happened, not being sarcastic or anything.

Why would you begin this anti-israeli rhetoric when you are trying to complete or advance your nuke power project? Doesn't make sense.

Ahmadinejad started saying this stuff a couple of years before the latest increased tensions between Israel and Iran.

They have nothing to lose?

Lets just suppose for a moment Iran got a new puppet leader who toned down the anti-israeli/american rhetoric. Maybe actually started to make friends as much as he could. Do you think then that the US and Israel would continue with it's tough posture?

It's hard to believe the world is a hyper-carnival of insane conspiracies, sometimes. Things wouldn't work as well as they do. Most people in free societies are free to work as they wish, make money, prosper and live long lives. How do we account for this phenomena?

There is some deception going on usually because of money. And we should all try to keep them honest, uncover lies. But some of these convoluted conspiracy theories do more to inhibit these efforts.

Maybe the real conspiracy are all of these conspiracy theories, intended to keep people from clearly seeing reality.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Electro38]

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Electro38]



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