"Like when a skyscraper falls down"

reply to post by kosmicjack


A very interesting question about your child. I must say in reading the thread he reminds me of myself at that age. I was a very intellectually precocious and introspective child and very aware of the nature of the "grown-up" world at a very early age. Children can be extremely perceptive beyond their apparent maturity, and can also sense things, often very acutely, and I know I certainly could. In fact my aunt said to me at that age, "What is it? You're such a serious child."

The nature of his comment is perplexing, but I believe it is almost certainly an oblique reference to 9/11; the event is so omnipresent he must know of it somehow, and the anxiety of his stomach problem has somehow been linked to that greater anxiety by simple transference. I remember during an intense childhood fever dreaming of blood-red scenes of old b&w WWII documentaries, because I'd seen so many on TV. Same principle at work I believe.

reply to post by gottago


Thank you. I suppose that it is very possible that he is linking one extreme event with the other and this has nothing whatsoever to do with a past life or preconscious memory. Simple as that.

But as a mom, I can't shake my feeling that there is more to it. Whether it is physical, mental or psychological - I don't know yet. Rest assured I am trying to be objective - to Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Keeping as much objectivity as possible is very important in my experience, or else one might just run out screaming into the night at every odd thing that comes along.

For 2 of my children 'skyscraper' would have been an ordinary word for them and where we were living they saw skyscrapers every day.

I think there is one more thing I would like to say. All of us have a story to tell about what living as a human being means to us -- what life means to us, and we start very early trying to tell our own stories. Sometimes we are shut down by parents, by teachers, by conventions, by religions and we go through a sometimes agonising process to learn to tell our own story about what it means to be a human being and have this experience.

So I regard children telling stories -- whether they are memories or not -- as something sacred about being human being, something needing to be honoured from the start and reproved or corrected only when there is harm or danger to self or others.

kosmicjack,

Even though you have tried to shelter your precious one from the horror of 9-11, he has lived four plus years already. If he has any knowledge of anything outside of the cocoon of home, he must have some knowledge of 9-11, as it is the defining moment of our current era.

So, I surmise, that "like a skyscraper falling" is, very innocently, describing his tummy-ache in the most extreme terms that he can think of.

Kosmicjack, would you be willing to do one thing and report back to us? Would you ask your son what the date September 11th, 2001 means? Find out if he has a clue. Don't do it confrontationally, of course. Just work the question into a conversation and find out just what exactly he found out about it.

It's an interesting response from a four year old, kids at this age are pretty gfuileless and say what they feel.

Does he go to kindergarten? Is it possible that this sort of thing might be talked about there...

Even if he has picked up on the WTC thing externally, maybe through other children talking about it, to draw the connection he has is quite unusual and could reflect some deep response to his perception of this information.

reply to post by JimmyBlonde


Thanks for your reply! A parochial preschool. I am 90% sure this would not be discussed. But you never know.

Kids seem to be more "in-tune" when they are young. Apparently they are more open to things like ghosts and past lives. I guess we kind of grow up and to some degree, part of society teaches us against such things, and we lose site of these perceptions.

I don't believe we really lose these higher senses, they just get masked through the process of life.

I've heard of a child, not old enough to talk, say "Hi daddy."

Not sure what your child is experiencing though.

Troy

What the Christ is wrong with you?

Your very young child is in physical pain LETS POST ON ATS COULD BE REINCARNATION.

We need a damn facepalm smiley.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I would like more input on this. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that it may be a pre-conscious memory or a perception of current group consciousness.

Should these feelings or conversations be encouraged, discouraged, or just ignored all together? My aim is strictly for a happy, well-adjusted and thriving child, so I tend to think I should just listen. However, I don't want to deny or supress any feelings or naturally occurring ability.

I would NEVER ignore a child's expression of feelings!

I would niether encourage nor ever discourage your child's desire to discuss anything that is troubling to him.

Let me make one point here; When I say that I would not encourage the child in these matters, what I am attempting to prevent is the creation of an environment wherein the child feels the need to "create" these feelings so as to engender affirmative interaction time with you.

A child should never be made to feel that he must in some way "perform" to recieve the emotional attention he desires. We do not make our children "sing for their suppers"!

I would also be very circumspect with regard to any conclusions you might be tempted to draw from what your son is telling you.

In your mind, it is entirely reasonable to draw a relationship to the tragedy of the World Trade Center when presented with "suffering", "falling skyscraper", and "September". But those "images" may not lead to the same conclusion in the mind of a child who has no experience of that horrible event.

Try to listen and respond without "coloring" your son's experience with your interpetations of his imagery.

And, by all means, record these conversations as best you can, preferably without your son's knowledge. If he is as perceptive as you claim, you do not want him to think, in any way, that what he his experiencing is in any way strange, or special, any more so than say his discovery of a new bug or rock is strange or eerie.

reply to post by forsakenwayfarer




Read the first page. Again.

The OP has already stated that the child is no longer having any pain!

Furthermore, consultation with the child's physician has, also, already been reccommended.

What you appear to have failed to comprehend was the OP's perplexity with regard to her child's characteization of his symptoms.

Your assumption was that the OP's first thought, when confronted with her child's distress, was to seek our input.

A fact not in evidence.

I am a believer in reincarnation and I think that the younger ones do have a clearer recall than when we they get older. I think as we get older the past life memories fade as this new life overwhelms all the buried memories....

It would make perfect sense that if your child is a reincarnation of a twin towers victim they would feel sick around the anniversary......
If they bring up the fishing thing again ask if they fished from a boat....get them to tell you more about it, color of the boat ect....see if they can name names.....or tell you where they lived.

More than a few people actually come around to believing in reincarnation because their child convinces them it is true by the things they say.

Maybe you would want to take your little one to a phsycologist and have them hypnotized and see what they recall during a regression? the hypnotists could use a suggestion that they remember none of the regression session. This could get you more information on what exactly the child remembers.
Personally I would not do this if it was my own kid, but then I would be fully taking notes on whatever my kid said along these lines, as I fully believe in reincarnation as it is......I think earth is a school and we are sent back over and over until we LEARN the lessons properly.

I think we are hear to learn how to love unconditionally.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

This is an extremely interesting thread

Like most here, my first thoughts sprang to reincarnation, but it is too early to jump to that conclusion. Young children are like sponges - they take in everything people say and commit them to memory, so it is very possible your son heard it somewhere.

That said, although it is a strange comparison to make, children often find strange ways to describe things - strange that is to us, because in our conversations we wouldn't say "its like a skyscraper falling down", because we have better experiences and vocabulary to describe things.

Please keep us posted on all this, especially the grandpa one, which I'm very interested in. Possibly his past incarnation? Possibly even god? An imaginary friend? The last wouldn't be uncommon in a four year old.

I am no expert by any means, but my advice to you at the moment would be not to push him with direct questions, try to gently coax information out of him in casual conversation. Maybe buy him some paint and ask him to paint some pictures to see what he comes out with?

My main advice though, is do not take him to a psychologist or hypnotist. Ofcourse this is ultimately your decision as a parent, but at four years old he won't understand what is going on, and might indirectly traumatise or scare him. He might start thinking there is something wrong with him, and this might affect his self-esteem, something which you do not want to happen at his age (I used to be a school anti-bullying counsellor).

Hope some of my advice helps

[edit on 9-9-2007 by DragonsDomain]

My first reaction to this storey, was that your child may be have the soul of a reencarted soul that died on 9/11.

This is a personal question, but did you have anyone 'close' that died on 9/11?

You should get him to describe what he is feeling, using as many diffrent words as possible.

Maybe he's been reincarnated from someone who was in one of the towers when they collapsed. I.E, Bad feeling in the belly being similar to the feeling of falling. Just throwing that out there, I have no particular belief in reincarnation.

i think the same thing here.
you might have talked about 9/11 but im sure you wouldnt have spoken abut the sensation of falling in one of the towers so to me thats a big question about how he would know about the feeling of falling in a skyscraper.
i dont think its just me but ive never heard a conversaton of falling down in a skyscraper

Thanks to everyone for your concern, input and replies. In answer to the last question - blessedly, no one we know was immediately affected by 9/11, other than the typical emotional trauma.

If the thread is read through in its entirety, you will read that the well-being of my child is my number one priority. I thought that was made clear but evidently some have concerns. Let me state emphatically that I would never allow or perpetuate my son's suffering in anyway - physically or emotionally. He is doing fine. However, because I believe this situation is highly unusal and out of the ordinary (from our perspective at least), I have chosen to seek the feedback of my fellow ATS members. I myself tend to be a skeptic but I'm trying to be objective. It was not my intention to subject myself to scrutiny as a parent.

We are at 36 hours with no physical symtoms. However, one thing we noticed yesterday is that he is very clingy. Happy but clingy. He is usually very independent and busy building something or racing something around the house or the yard. He is really very interested and insistent on being wherever we are. Of course, we oblige with all reasonable requests and are happy to do so. He won't always be four and cuddly right!?

The approach our family has decided to take is this:

We will observe and not attempt to influence him in any way by either starting conversations or asking too many questions. Certainly no leading questions at all. If he wants to talk we will listen and give him outlets for expression, such as drawing. No psychologists or hypnotists for us. At least not for the foreseeable future. If a conversation becomes revealing or enlightening we will discreetly record it. We are just going to see how this week plays out. With open minds and hearts. We will also continue to seek more information and insight about this phenomenon, if it is even one.

Again, thanks to everyone for your concern and gentle advise.

Interesting thread, just one thing, I think its pretty common for kids to know basic things, like what a bridge is, a car, a skyscraper etc, but probably more likely after starting school, its also very possible the kids seen one somewhere, book, TV, outside, older kids talking about it, you talking about it but dont remember, on the news etc.

But its still in the unknown, its possibly something stranger.

First off, thanks for sharing this. Absolutely fascinating!

I personally believe that we each begin life in the most spiritual form we'll ever have while being in these material bodies and then spend the rest of our lives running away and shutting down that spirituality. I believe children see into the spiritual dimension. I also am totally fascinated by the cases of children remembering past lives and find them one of the more unexplainable paranormal phenomena.

I believe you should get an expert involved because I do believe that if these memories are attached to a past life, your child will slowly become more corporeal and start to shut off his spiritual side as he gets older as we all have done. Dr. Jim Tucker, M.D., who is medical director of the Child and Family Psychiatric Clinic at the University of Virginia, has studied these cases for many years now and treats them sincerely and respectfully while also applying sound investigation techniques to vetting the memories of the children. I would suggest you look up his email address or phone number, share what is going on with your child, and see if he will assist you by at least giving you advice on how to bring more information out of your child without "tainting" his memory.

I hope you will do that and then come back and share with us as you learn more. Thank you, again, for sharing this with us.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by Valhall]

reply to post by kosmicjack


What you have is a fairly bright child. Specifically, you seem to have a child who is capable of making analogies and metaphors at a pretty young age and who is fairly advanced in terms of linguistic and cognitive abilities.

Obviously you don't have to have been inside or near a falling skyscraper to be able to make a metaphor about falling skyscrapers. I know that you're wondering how he'd even know what a skyscraper is, or how he'd know that they sometimes fall. Kids, especially smart kids, know weird things because they are soaking in so much information from so many different sources it's phenomenal.

The story about going fishing with a grandfather he doesn't have...I can see how that might give you goosebumps, but that's actually pretty common in imaginative children. Inventing grandparents, siblings and friends is something you see frequently when you work with (especially gifted) kids. They make up stories and then they populate these stories with people they have made up. They only know so many categories of people at such a tender age, one of which is "grandpa".

Is it possible that your child is psychically sensitive or reincarnated? I guess, sure. But you might be happier, and your child might be happier, if you go with the much more likely solution that he is perhaps well advanced verbally and unusually creative.

The stomach problems may be something physical that needs to be treated. If the doctot can't find anything physical, one thing he will probably suggest is that your child is frustrated about not being challenged. At such a young age, this frustration often comes out as stomach aches and headaches. I'm sure you already read to your child, keep doing that and telling stories. If he hasn't already learned to read and write a little, try to help him do that.

It's totally up to you, but I think this is going to be way better for your child's longterm development than any kind of "reincarnation research", hypnosis regression, etc etc etc. If nothing else, even if you really think the child may be a sensitive or reincarnated, by helping him to develop even better linguistic abilities now he will be better able to communicate with you.

What you probably have is a child who is going to do well in life, especially when it comes to communication and the arts.

reply to post by kosmicjack


I would encourage him to elaborate on the memories of this other grandfather......asking a few leading questions about other things they did.........these would be more comfortable memories, a safer, happier time to recall, one that would be less likely to create any stress. ( And if it is a real case of reincarnation, perhaps some verifiable information would come to light?)

I am also curious.......has your son had a chance to ride an elevator?? The 'sinking' feeling of falling ( that zero gravity moment ) whether in a collapsing building, moving ferris wheel, or descending elevator should be somewhat similar.......you might be able to use an elevator ride to discuss the subject casually. But.....
If he's not familiar with elevators yet, you might find that he has an 'intense dislike' of that falling feeling as soon as he experiences it....be ready for that.

Originally posted by frayed1


I am also curious.......has your son had a chance to ride an elevator?? The 'sinking' feeling of falling ( that zero gravity moment ) whether in a collapsing building, moving ferris wheel, or descending elevator should be somewhat similar.......you might be able to use an elevator ride to discuss the subject casually. But.....
If he's not familiar with elevators yet, you might find that he has an 'intense dislike' of that falling feeling as soon as he experiences it....be ready for that.

This is actually very interesting. I'm trying to get into my 4 year old perception mode...is there the possibility that a toddler in an elevator could think he's riding the building down? In other words, a toddler isn't going to understand how an elevator is working, he could just as well think when you push the button you're making the whole building go down.