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Osama Bin Laden Video Discussion and Updates

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posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Night Watchman
 


Hey Night Watchman,

Just finnished your reply... thanks for the effort...
Let me explain my point off view on this matter...
If you read the latest message from OBL, He never stated that he wants to kill all non muslims... He just explained the other side of a long long history...
After a while (decades) it is very difficult to say who is on the deffensive side and who is attacking...
The only 'positive thing i see in this message is that he's the first to start lookin into a sollution rather then the problem...
I think we can agree that in the world today there's a problem going on between capitalism and religion... To make it easy everybody nowadays put's the face of Bush (usa) on the capitalist side, and the face of OBL (muslim) on the religious side...
Now we can go on and on and on... But if we look at history and the recent past, i can see one thing...
'Bush will never be a muslim, and OBL will never be an American'...
Now... the sentence above itself is packed with thousand discussions...
Cause: Bush can become or is a religious freak, OBL has tons of money and could be seen as a capitalist... Muslims are hypocrit stating that Islam is peace, Americans are hypocrit for making it a religious war (god bless America)... And i can go on and on making it even more complicated (See ATS threads)...
But what we all want (i hope) is a happy world where everybody can be who he wants to be...
And therefor we need solutions...
Back to OBL 'LATEST' message... He don't state that everybody has to become a muslim (in his words he states that muslims, christians and so on are on the same side of the fence) or al quada will kill you... He just says that we (religions) have to embrace each other against the terrors (which you also know) of following the money...
That is why i said that the message he states makes him a great man...

Think about the real meaning of being a human living on this earth, look at topics from ATS as well as other sites (predictions and stuff), read the Bibble the Koran, sriptures from Buddah... Do a meditation... and in my opinion all becomes clear...

the knightfook
peace we will see




posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Obliv_au
well i guess thats another very plausible possibility, but in some vids he has a watch or rings which i thought werent acceptable in islam? (or any jewellery)


It's gold that isn't allowed. Silver or whatever is fine. Was it gold or silver that you saw?



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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Please also check the opening post for updates, related links and information.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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It is all about perspective and everyone needs to pick which way they want to see things. How many people does a man need to kill before he is a mass murder? OBL is a mass murder, but then so is Bush if you wanted to look with that perspective.

Clinton put a death contract out on him years before 9/11 because of his actions then, and so whether he was part of 9/11 or not is a moot point, but he did say that the “blood on the hands of America is the same as the blood on my hand for 9/11…if I was part of it”.

I am sure if Bush was brought to trial in Iran he would be put to death, just as OBL will die one day. So what side are you on, and do any of you really understand the world that OBL would like to make? He wants one that makes the Taliban look like moderates.

Agent violet got a lot of people excited, but let’s put her in OBLs world. She would be covered head to foot at all times, could not leave her house unless given permission from her husband (which she had no choice in choosing), Her husband can and will beat her whenever he feels like it, and she can never go to school or work, but only be a provider to her husband’s needs. She would be under the threat of being stoned to death for small infractions that could bring embarrassment to her family. One such infraction might be getting raped, and this would be her fault for enticing a holy man to rape her, and so she would be stoned to death for doing that.

That is not the world I want and so I’m on America’s side. Now Agent Violet might not find that kind of world too bad and so she see America as the evil empire. Who knows and who cares for I will fight for my beliefs just as OBL is going to fight for his.

Star wars is great for the evil empire was only evil to the rebels. The empire just wanted to bring order to the universe, now old Lucas had to ensure the empire looked evil, but why was it bad when a storm trooper killed someone and not when Luke cut someone in half since both were fighting for what they believed in? It is all perspective…


[edit on 8-9-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Obliv_au
surely AQ would have a more realistic double thats got that "im an old guy thats lived a hard life" look like osama usually has instead of a well fed and healthy looking AA osama.


Maybe AQ are looking to present their leader as someone who is strong and doing well. Someone who they want their followers to think is as close to Allah as can be, not an individual who is in poor health and could die from illness who may make people ask questions about it all ("Why would Allah take someone so great in this way?" etc. BTW, and completely flashing my ignorance at you all here, but is there such a thing as a hero's death or an unworthy death?).

I understand the argument of the US doing it this way as well to show everyone that the enemy is still strong. My feeling is that it IS AQ but may or may not be the man himself. And for those who distribute the video, I don't think it would matter as long as it still has the effect for gaining support and/or triggering attacks. I do believe that an "alive" OBL is much more useful to them than a martyr as the latter may be harder to keep going with regards to keeping the momentum alive.

Any updates on the Islamic websites? Are they all extremist sites or sympathisers? I had a thought earlier that (if they are still down of course) they may be taken out so no-one can post a "spoiler" and tip everyone off with what the big plan is. Possible?



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

The whole thought that the USA would use nukes on its own citizens is just too far fetched for me.

What would they possibly gain from such an event?

.


they already have many years ago. They test a nuke and had military leave trenches and enter the nuclear battlefield to see what effects it has on the soldiers.

"just wear these goggles and after you hear the explosion count to 5 and turn around, and look in awe at the huge mushroom cloud"

we all know these events are real and did happen not only in USA but other countries aswell.

between 1951 and 63 the USA contucted 926 tests of atomic and hydrogen bombs in the atmosphere and underground of nevada's desert. as many as 3000 troops served at the test site for research to find out how troops perform in a nuclear battlefield.
they were ordered, not volunteered.

look up marine pilot chuck broudy, he was near ground zero for codename "hood, the largest atmospheric test.

you might be in the military, but your still a citizen of your own country.

edit again to fix quotes

[edit on 8/9/07 by Obliv_au]

[edit on 8/9/07 by Obliv_au]



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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Okay, I did a little research on the cropped and dyed beard issue. I found this very interesting write up on the very argument as to whether cutting your beard is permissible or not for an Muslim man.

muslimsinkenya.wordpress.com...

What I found more interesting than the issue of whether a devout Muslim man would crop his beard are the comments concerning dying one's beard. Check these out from the source above:


c. The Messenger of Allah’s saying,
“Let the beard grow and trim the moustache and do not imitate the Jews and Christians and dye your grey hair.”

In Al-Mughni, Imam Ibn Qudamah said, “It is desirable to dye the grey hair with a color other than black.”


The analysis concludes that neither cutting or dying of the beard is prohibited, but it also tends to show that most of the clerics have stated it is not desirable and as seen above, dying the beard black appears to be even more on the undesirable side of things.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Valhall]



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 

Xtrozero...
Did you read the message of OBL?...



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:26 PM
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Hmmm how do i say this.

Basically I can see where Violet is coming from.
She's not saying she wants to be buddies with him and sit down for coffee with OBL.
She is simply stating that osama has qualities which many of us would admire, perhaps if they were in regards to something else.

It takes quite an open mind to see where she is coming from, so just try and think outside the box for a moment.

Is what the Americans have done in iraq/afghanistan, much better than what osama did on 9/11? There were certainly more innocent lives lost due to the americans, than due to anything osama has done so far.

There are qualities in Osama that we can admire, and some we can hate.
In fact, I think I would go as far to say that we could admire most of his qualities, and just hate some of his beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with that.

And it's a little too easy to go down the path of the 'You're either with us or against us' mindset in regards to how you feel about osama.

I like to be a little more balanced and have shades of grey, not purely black and white. That's the kind of thinking that breeds ignorance and starts wars.

I'd also like to say I don't condone anything he's done, I hate religion, and that extremist muslims are dreadfully misguided.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Agent violet got a lot of people excited, but let’s put her in OBLs world. She would be covered head to foot at all times, could not leave her house unless given permission from her husband (which she had no choice in choosing), Her husband can and will beat her whenever he feels like it, and she can never go to school or work, but only be a provider to her husband’s needs. She would be under the threat of being stoned to death for small infractions that could bring embarrassment to her family. One such infraction might be getting raped, and this would be her fault for enticing a holy man to rape her, and so she would be stoned to death for doing that.
[edit on 8-9-2007 by Xtrozero]


Yes it is all about perspective, and i believe you have taken the wrong perspective in regards to what she's trying to say.
Nowhere does she say she would enjoy living a muslim life, or condones anything he has done.
So I think it is rather extreme to believe she wants or would like any of that, simply because she admires a few of his qualities.

Admiring qualities is different to admiring someones beliefs.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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No overt threat from OBL but we do have one from the CIA...given coincidently at the CFR...

www.canada.com...[/url]



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by SmokeyJo


Spot the difference.




[edit on 8-9-2007 by SmokeyJo]


Smokey, I have my doubts about its authenticity, plus he has that same old sorry gold robe on and turban that I have seen in others.

I thought his comments were rambling and less then I would expect him capable of,

Embrace Islam? well that almost funny, surely he doesn't think we would even consider it? It's odd.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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Does anyone have the transcript of Bin Ladens video before 9/11?

I think it would be interesting to compare with this one and see if we could glean something IMHO.

I did find a link of the instructions sent to the hijackers prior to 9/11 from Bin Laden. The instructions are similiar to the transcript of the recent video


Bin Laden's 9/11 instructions!



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by UM_Gazz
 



What about this?

www.tribecatrib.com...



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Ellipsis
 


Yes, divide and conquer.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss
No overt threat from OBL but we do have one from the CIA...given coincidently at the CFR...

www.canada.com...[/url]


Leo, nice post, this reminds me of the Presidential Daily Brief on August 6th, 2001 when the CIA director warned of the attack! Yikes! I can't even watch football today, the knot in the stomach has tightened!



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


HELLO? Is anyone seeing the mislead in info that is taken place in the last hours...
We all agree that there is a new video of OBL...
We all agree that anyone of us can read (see begin of thread) the full message...
NOW isn't it strange that in a space of a few hours (and keep in mind that we all have the same information)
The info is USED by different organisations for their own benefit!!!
(it's not him, it's an attack sign, the proof of extremists and blablabla... )

Just read OBL's message! don't let the media control you!
This is a realy nice example of mind control actions...

watch out people
the knightfook



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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The new Bin Laden video seems VERY weird to me. He recommends book readings from Chomsky, who he seems to praise, says JFK was assassinated by corporations, and seems to mention the military industrial complex as the big problem. In the video, he also basically says that global warming is the biggest threat to humans at the moment.

The thing I found most interesting though, came from mainstream media. In just about every article and every television report I've seen, it mentions



"The second solution is from your side," he says. "I invite you to embrace Islam."


Bin Laden did say both these things, but not in the same sentence. The part about "embracing Islam" was more toward the end, while the mention of a second solution was in the middle of the video. What he REALLY mentions as the second solution seems to be to basically dismantle democracy and capitalism, which he considers very cruel and harsh. Of course, that's not exactly any better than "embracing Islam", but I found it interesting the way the media changed it.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Night Watchman

Originally posted by theknightfook

I just finnished it and without taking sides...

the knightfook



I can't believe it is that easy to gain followers.


My first thoughts on the video were who ever this is, is trying to gain a sympathetic ear,

You know tell people what they want to hear?



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by mel1962
 


Excuse me Mel but have you seen the TEXT SOURCE???
I'll help you... it's fox news...
Riddle me this

the knightfook



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