Understanding the Iran Dis-Info Campaign

Originally posted by merryxmas
It would be nice if you also added in where the US proposed that Iran should have nuclear power when our puppet the Shah was running things. Some other information along those lines where we used to support Iran going nuclear would be great to see as a timeline.

even a few seconds of research would have taken you to wiki

en.wikipedia.org...

This is not disputed, it is just not reported in the drum beats to war from the media.

I thought i had seen this situation and campaign before

en.wikipedia.org...

yes its wikki but it a potted version of what i remember seeing along time ago.

the puppet in south vietnam was not doing what the US wanted so they wanted to engineer a `popular` coup to replace him - but war overtook events.

So you can see the US sometimes gets its hand bitten when meddling in other countries afairs - they sided with Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war.

reply to post by BitRaiser

he dissolved the parliament using a referendum to avoid impeachment. This act was characterized as unconstitutional by some of his closest allies as well as opponents, and led to the Shah's dismissing him from office on August 16, 1953 [4][5][6][7][8]. Mossadegh later insisted that the text of the constitution was subject to interpretation, and that his actions had been in accordance with its spirit rather than its text ...

ya sounds like a real boy scout

reply to post by unfiguroutable


Did I, or anyone else, suggest that he's a shining example of a perfect political leader?

No.

That's not the issue here, nor the topic of the thread.
We are discussing the fallacies that have propagated throughout western media concerning claims that are provably wrong (if not outright lies).

Or do you honestly believe that holding a referendum (which is a democratic process involving a vote by the people) is just cause to go to war with Iran?

reply to post by BitRaiser


you sought to validate a despot. i simply pointed out how undeserving of your favor he is. as for as a referendum goes it will be the president and foriegn policy that desides if we actually act aggressivly in iran. we do not need a formal declaration of war to bomb iran. and in fact with the current war resulting in the politicizing of so many american deaths i seriously doubt we will declare war on iran any time soon. not to say we wont kill iranians. i am farly certain we are already doing that.

reply to post by BitRaiser


Great OP, Bitraiser. Have to point out an error you make in your opening quote, more an extract from Wiki than a quote actually. You write: "...removed the democratically-elected administration of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and his cabinet from power and replaced it with a monarchy."

Sorry, not correct, the Pahlavi dynasty had the power from 1921, were a cozak officer, Reza Khan overthrew the weak and crumbling Quatar dynasty, more or less choked to death by the Imperial wars of Russia and Britain, to whom it had lost half its territory. Famine and a new order after WW1 -and Reza Khan- did the rest.

It was in the wake of WW2, with socialism riding the wave of popularity that Mossadegh for a short while managed to establish a democratic rule, so it is not correct to say "Iran was a democracy right up until 1953".

Besides for that, a great thread I didn't become aware of before today.

I would like to add, Mossadegh is still today the great light of any freedom movement in the ME or Arabian world. And that it was the British, who had the intention, but not quite the power to have him overthrown for nationalising the Caspian Sea oil ...on which the Anglo-Iranian Oil company, later to become BP, held the concession.

Playing on John Foster Dulles' pathetic fear of communism, the Brits managed to motivate him, and in turn to get his brother Allen Welsh Dulles, head of CIA at the time, to put Kermit Roosevelt on the disinfo campaign that lead to the coup.

Disinfo campaigns always do the job, this time I just hope they won't.

reply to post by khunmoon


What I've read on the subject supports the claim that it was a US/UK coupe that overthrew Democratic Iran. If you have a link to some good reading to counter this, I'd appreciate seeing it!

Honestly, I didn't know much about Iran until I started to smell the BS of another mass-media disinformation campaign and started doing some research... which led to the creation of this thread. Since then, I've continued to keep an eye on things and read whatever I come across.

Otherwise, glad we're on the same page.

You do a great job with this thread Bitraiser, and I'm not critizising only trying to correct. Concerning the history of Iran it's all too easy to get a few things wrong.

What I wrote is merely what I know, confirming through Wiki, dates, names and details.

Of course you are perfectly right it was a UK/US installed coup, I never opposed that, it was more the timeline and the claim of installing the shah, and they up to then should have had democracy in Iran.

For the first part... your misunderstanding is understandable.

It was a reinstallment of the the Shah the final coup and staging brought in August 1953, I just learn it now after further Wiki reading. That there was two coup attempt in 1953. The first was a mock coup to be unsuccessful and let the Shah flee to Italy, to stir up riots and emotions, to create a blackmail to the opposition, all part of plan AJAX.

A tidbit from Wiki

CIA operatives pretending to be socialists and nationalists threatened Muslim leaders with "savage punishment if they opposed Mossadegh," thereby giving the impression that Mossadegh was cracking down on dissent, and stirring anti-Mossadegh sentiments within the religious community

Shah Reza Pahlavi had been installed already in 1941, when the Brits occupied the German friendly Iran in a pre-emptive move to secure its oil. His father, the old Shah was exiled and forced to abdicate in favour of his 22-year-old son, who you can say was installed then. He should prove a willing puppet, who fully restored concessions.

As a sidenote: the key of the 1951 nationalisations by Mossadegh was the D'Arcy concession of 1901, a 60-year concession bought for a one-time payment 10.000 pounds. It was the start of what should become BP, blackmailing a decadent feudal lord with his extravagant life style. Imagine, 10 grands for all the Caspian Sea oil.


As for the second part, if Iran had democracy up to 1953, it is harder to determine. If constitutional parliamentarism is Democracy, yes they had then, as they had up to 1979.

Wiki:

...by December 31, 1906 the Shah signed the constitution, modeled primarily from the Belgium Constitution. The Shah was from there on "under the rule of law, and the crown became a divine gift given to the Shah by the people.

The most interesting character, and a keyfigure in the 1953 coup is John Foster Dulles, a wellknown paranoic who found an alley in Churchill and his communist fobia. He was the driving force, and with his brother, head of CIA, the one who pulled the strings. The British had since 51 in vain tried Trumann to take action, and Eisenhower wasn't keen at it either, but his SoS was. The Eisenhower era was drawm by JFD. IMO.

The only research I can hint at is Wiki. Search any keyword in this post.

The Warmongers will now say "I told you so"!--

www.jpost.com...

After years of stonewalling, Iran has given the UN nuclear agency blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday, in an apparent concession meant to head off the threat of new UN sanctions.



My reply:

www.guardian.co.uk...

But it's worse than that. Deep in the bowels of the CIA, someone must be nervously, but very privately, wondering: "Whatever happened to those nuclear blueprints we gave to the Iranians?"

The Russian, who had defected to the US years earlier, still couldn't believe the orders he had received from CIA headquarters. The CIA had given him the nuclear blueprints and then sent him to Vienna to sell them - or simply give them - to the Iranian representatives to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

*bump* great post.

watchZEITGEISTnow

So what is the point here?

The OP didn't go into the fact that Iran really doesn't need to flex its muscles on anyone for they do not have any enemies that they do not want. Egypt and Jordan have made peace with Israel why can’t Iran?

We see this every time things get somewhat quite, they come out with a statement or stupid act (like the boats recently) to bolster the friction between them and the US and Israel. Israel is just a little sensitive about nukes since it would only take one to wipe them off the map since the majority of their population is located in one area.

US will never attack Iran unless Iran does something really stupid to cause it. No one wants to prevent them from having nuclear power, but it is just a little fishy that the way they want to do it also gives them the avenue to build nukes also.

Such as their big statement in Sept that they were now running 3,000 uranium centrifuges with a goal of 54,000. But why were they so quick to announce the 3000 number?

Well that is considered the threshold to produce enough weapons grade plutonium in just under a year.

Their claim of 3000 was not too long after the US claimed they were 5 to 8 years away.

The OP needs to expand his "Dis-info-campaign" to include Iran to get the full picture as to what is going on, but I seem to always notice the "its America's fault" slant in most of his posts/topics.

I believe actions speak louder than words in regards to iran. What about iran supporting hezbollah in lebanon with all the rockets and now even more powerful rockets, the training, etc. What about the training of hamas in iran and now the rockets like in lebanon have started? What about Sadrs being in iran for along time being trained and now his militia has suddenly been firing rockets into the green zone? Do you ever read irans state run media? This govt is asking for it like i have said in other threads. I hope they get it too. Like i said, actions speak louder than words in my opinion...

check this out again if you want, I like to read it every day along with other sources:

www.crossfirewar.com

Originally posted by Xtrozero
The OP needs to expand his "Dis-info-campaign" to include Iran to get the full picture as to what is going on

No so.
You need to re-read the title of the thread.

This thread was started as a direct response to the the media frenzy that way popularizing the steaming pile of bovine turd that was so easily provably false.

At no point have I said "Iran is the land of huggie bears 'n cuddle bugs". I do believe I directly commented on the fact that they have some repressive crap going on that badly needs changing... but not at the expense of innocent lives under yet another unneeded and criminal hail of American bombs.

I seem to always notice the "its America's fault" slant in most of his posts/topics.

Must I point out your track record of denying logic, reason, evidence, and human compassion in your dogged pursuit of blind-faith flag waving?

No... I really didn't think so.

And yeah... this is a bit of a bump as Iran seems to be coming up in the media again...

I thought the campaign had collapsed, but now it seems to be gearing up for another pass at starting another war by duping the masses.
don't let that happen folks!

[edit on 16-4-2008 by BitRaiser]

In every country its the same #, more or less, with half-truths spun into favorable propaganda. I seldom watch the news because its too distorted and depressing. Black man shot so-and-so but is still unaccounted for; Iran big threat to israel, europe and other arab nations; global warming maybe responsible for floods and draughts eventhough very little proof exists; President Bush says conditions in iraq are improving and war was justified....



They must think the whole world is full of idiots otherwise they would not dare make such "fallacies".

I rather like your post, I've thought the same thing for a while now. I saw a documentary on Iran a while ago and it was a lot more interesting a place than I thought, and most of the people liked America, just not the foreign relations. They do get a bad rap for really no reason.
I doubt they'd be helping Iraqi insurgents too, they seem to have a beef with iraq in general (see the mass grave sites where people mourn those killed in the war, instigated by Iraq/America).

I always wonder if people are mistranslating too! That would be the best job EVER. You can manipulate every conversation to your liking!

"Tell him the service is free."
"He says, 'you have to pay $5000 cash.' To me, after he leaves"

...and so forth

Just wanted to say I support the thread. Where disinfo is concerned, it's always important to just, you know, keep an eye on the facts.

For my own part, I'm quite glad I managed to kill this thread with this post. Most important line:

WE'RE THREE PAGES IN AND NO-ONE, NO-ONE, HAS CHECKED THE BASIC FACTS OF THE STORY.

Sorry about the caps... it seemed like a good idea in context. Actually, in context, it still does. And to be fair, it's not just the right-wingers who post this kind of nonsense - although they, I think, are more organised and it's to do with a real agenda. I did post this thread to demonstrate my disdain for people who leap to conclusions without checking facts first.

But, really, leaping to conclusions is the forte of the right wing authoritarian. I've had fun in the past pointing out when RWAs (who do infest this board more than I'd like, though of course, God love 'em, they're entitled to voice their opinions, no matter how stupid and inane) fulfil each of the criteria listed. Good sport, if at times a little like shooting fish in a barrel...

Anyway, things seem to have calmed down a bit now. Though you just know that people out there still believe all that BS.


EDIT to add: if anyone wants to do some research, there's a fascinating fact about Iran that I don't think has been mentioned thus far: there's a large and thriving community of Jews living there quite happily who wouldn't move to Israel if you paid 'em.

Another interesting and strangely under-reported fact for the pile.

Peace,

R

[edit on 14-2-2009 by rich23]