Madeline McCann's mother to be an official suspect

Originally posted by wigit
I don't think the police have planted evidence just to get the McCanns but I think it's possible that whoever took her is still in the area and meddling in the case and that it might be an organised crime.

Now this is the kind of thing I mean when I ask why is KM claiming she's being framed. The idea that a perpetrator of such a crime would be skulking around putting him/herself at huge risk of discovery by planting evidence here, there and everywhere just sounds wild to me. Certainly every bit as wild as the idea that the parents may know more than they're saying.

If it was the McCanns, where did they put her for 25 days?

Don't know, really don't know, but IF her DNA was in that car in a quantity which rules out secondary transfer then it's going to need one hell of a lot of explaining.

It's like the sniffer dogs. Their reaction suggests that a corpse, (at least an hour or two old), had been in that apartment. If that is the case and the parents testimony about their whereabouts is true then one of them has to have been there when Madeleine was dead. The timeline appears very tricky but, of course, we aren't in possession of all of the facts known to the police.

And if they did it why did they go into the media spotlight and stay there for weeks

Can't explain the motivation other than to say that it happens quite often. Ian Huntley, Russell Bishop, that blonde sort who murdered her boyfriend and blamed a road rage attack for starters. For some reason it seems that the need to deny the reality takes over in some way.

I don't know what's going on out there any more than the next person but I remain pretty convinced that the parents' story is not the whole truth - the question for me is why would they lie?

reply to post by _Phoenix_



yes thank you _Phoenix_
my daughter actually came and found me and she now lives with me and we are very, very happy.
but i will never forget them dark days nor will i ever get over it.
i lost 7 years of my life so did my daughter.
my world had stopped when my daughter was taken away from me and it does stop for a lot of parents in that situation but not as much for the McCanns. no way could i have coped with all that media attention at the time, but they were playing the media game from day one and they both looked healthy, too healthy......
they just did not look right, in fact the parents looked TOO GOOD at all times.
i am still hoping for maddie though, i will NOT believe she is dead until it is confirmed

I thoroughly agree, and wonder, if that was the UK, EVERYONE in contact with that car would be questioned and searched, over and over till they scored them out. I don't know the size of the place but imagine there's not too many cars for hire. It could be a coincidence that they've hired the same car Maddie was taken away in.

Wigit you've become totally pathetic now. First you argued that the forensic evidence was planted in the rental car by Police and that it's not true.

Then you switch stories to promote a belief that the car must have been rented by alleged child abductors.

One minute you say it's not true... then you claim it proves Madeline was abducted. You are getting ridiculous

PS
Spliffy sorry I have not been in touch. I will U2U and let you in on what's been happening.


[edit on 14-9-2007 by sy.gunson]

Has everyone missed the fact that they are reporting she died of an overdose of sleeping pills?

Originally posted by Flyer
Has everyone missed the fact that they are reporting she died of an overdose of sleeping pills?

WHO is reporting that? and, as she hasnt been found how can anyone say that at all

reply to post by Chorlton


It's being reported by a French investigative reporter in "France Soir". He claims to have seen a toxicology report on the body fluids from the car.

Apparently he is quite well respected. You pays your money and...

Originally posted by Flyer
Has everyone missed the fact that they are reporting she died of an overdose of sleeping pills?

no i have not missed that information but i have read so much rubbish from this case i do not take anything at face value.
what i would like to know is, why were doctors giving their children sleeping meds in the first place. no parent would give their kids sleeping meds and then go out for a meal with friends, apart from the McCanns.
ohh and i forgot, leave the front door unlocked.

ps
hi si
i know you are under pressure at the moment and that is why i havent U2Ued. when you get a chance let me know how it is going for you
i am still hoping for you as well m8

Originally posted by spliffy
no i have not missed that information but i have read so much rubbish from this case i do not take anything at face value.
what i would like to know is, why were doctors giving their children sleeping meds in the first place. no parent would give their kids sleeping meds and then go out for a meal with friends, apart from the McCanns.
ohh and i forgot, leave the front door unlocked.

and dont forget, refusing a free babysitting service from the resort.

Absolutely everything points to them doing it and we havent even seen most of the evidence yet!

Their only hope is 12 people like wigit on the jury!

Let me play attorney for the defense (devil's advocate) for a moment.

The first thing I would like to know is the timeline for the car rental. The McCanns went on several trips before the rental car was tested by the sniffer dogs, who found the traces of bodily fluids. Did the rental car go back to the agency at some point before it was searched? Was it rented out by anyone else during those times before the dogs got a chance to look at it? If so the chain of custody of the evidence doesn't lead directly to the McCanns.

Another point. These "bodily fluids", what exactly were they? Were they vomit? If they were vomit then no matter how full of sleeping pill residue they were, they do not necessarily indicate that the person who vomited died as a result of ingesting sleeping pills.

I have read that the initial search of the "hire car" discovered nothing, certainly not "clumps" of hair. I find it hard to believe that one of the McCanns, most likely Gerry, after dumping the body, would not have cleaned out clumps of hair. Given his medical backround, I would have thought he would have thoroughly washed the area where the body was with bleach or some chemical which would destroy DNA evidence.

As to why would the Portugese police frame the McCanns, it wouldn't be "the police", it would be the murderer, if that person were a policeman, or someone with access to the police garage.

Personally, I think it looks very grim for the McCanns, but I believe that one of the reasons the police are pushing to break down Kate McCann is that they know they haven't got an airtight case. The McCanns still might have done it. A lot of circumstantial evidence points that way. I think a good defense attorney can make the case that the evidence by no means points exclusively to the McCanns. I do however, think that they will be charged in a week or so.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Wigit you've become totally pathetic now.

Thanks, but I don't give a ***. Obviously I'm batting for the other side or you wouldn't be attacking me with you put downs. Fair game.

First you argued that the forensic evidence was planted in the rental car by Police and that it's not true.

Then you switch stories to promote a belief that the car must have been rented by alleged child abductors.

One minute you say it's not true... then you claim it proves Madeline was abducted. You are getting ridiculous

Rubbish. I'm arguing all the other possibilities, other than the parents have killed her. We don't know what's true or not true and probably wont till there's a case to be answered in court. Read my posts carefully. I'm mostly speculating. I'm saying maybe this, possibly that, perhaps this. Most folk posting here have closed the case on the mother. That scenario doesn't suit me ('cos I don't think she did it) so I'm wondering how else the crime was done, (whatever the exact crime is). If you think that's ridiculous, fine. Who's gonna look pathetic if it turns out there's no case for the parents to answer?

The only way they would have been able to move her in that car is if she had been refrigerated since death. A 25-day old corpse would stink to high heaven. They would have never been able to get the stench out of the car. Plus it'd be impossible to hide the body anywhere within smelling distance of people.

Does anyone know if they could have had access to a refrigerator or freezer that could hold her body for that long?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Does anyone know if they could have had access to a refrigerator or freezer that could hold her body for that long?

They were vacationing with a few other doctors. It's even been stated that one of the other (doctor) couples had left their children unattended, as well.

Speculation being an 'accidental overdose'; is it possible that one of the other physicians, feeling empathy, stored the body for the McCanns? The McCanns then had to dispose of the body, prior to leaving the country?


BTW, wasn't it reported that a member of the dinner party, another doctor, also checked on the McCann children during dinner? Perhaps he went to investigate the possible overdose, after being approached by the parents? Kind of like, "is this really happening?".

-Sour

There may be no truth to this whatsoever, but it is very easy for a person following this case to form an impression of this group of snotty British doctors holidaying among the "wogs", enjoying the beach and shopping in the town every day after putting the kids in the creche and then collecting the kids in the evening, tucking them into bed and going off to the tapas bar every night to get looped and indulge in patronizing, haw haw haw gossip among themselves, with occasional asides reserved for "taking the mickey" out of the funny locals and sneering at the wine.

I hope to hell that's not the way it was, but continuing in that vein, one night the McCanns decide that Madeleine's nightly crying jags as she's abandoned must be getting on the nerves of the lady upstairs, so maybe she should be given a little assistance getting to sleep. Incredibly this gambit goes terribly wrong!

Maybe Madeleine got out of bed after mom left and took ten more pills because they tasted good or because she was mommy's little helper and thought if one pill didn't seem to be putting her to sleep then she should increase the dosage herself, playing doctor. (These are all reasons why you never leave a four year old alone.)

At some point someone discovers that the child is comatose or even dead. This little group of doctors, who may all be implicated in the scenario already, by knowledge and consent, and who may be legally accessories to the manslaughter, decide to cover what happened up. They clean up whatever mess might have occurred, move the body to another flat or stick it in a suitcase and then set up the cry "They've taken her!"

All the PR that ensues is a way to make up for the mess they made as well as a way to keep the McCanns from "losing it" and breaking down to the police.

This is all pretty ugly but it's not far fetched.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Maybe Madeleine got out of bed after mom left and took ten more pills because they tasted good or because she was mommy's little helper and thought if one pill didn't seem to be putting her to sleep then she should increase the dosage herself, playing doctor. (These are all reasons why you never leave a four year old alone.)

I was thinking the same thing. It's possible that if she was drugged she drugged herself by getting into her parents' supplies. When they saw what had happened they could have panicked and tried to cover it up.

Pure speculation though....

Just as some policemen are known to carry an extra gun to leave behind in the hand of someone they might accidentally shoot, most doctors I would assume have gone over and over in their minds how they would wiggle out of an accidentally caused death if ever the situation should arise. It's called practicing "defensive medicine". They will have gone over all the moral implications long ago and made certain tough decisions that others would take time agonizing over.

i do take sleeping tablets myself
and i dont think sleeping meds could kill you that quick, we would need a doctor to confirm that.
of course maddie is still a little baby which would have a big impact
but even still, i find it hard to believe the meds would shut a body down that quick.

how many parents here would give their children sleeping meds, for any reason.

how many sleeping tablets did the parents have with them and why do they have sleeping meds

doctors know better than anyone how important it is too MAKE SURE your kids do not get at medicines.

two heads think better than one and these two doctors keep getting simple things wrong

and yes FLYER
they did turn down a babysitter for that night that was FREE

why did they not answer vital questions, i would have and so would any other parent

there has to be a few of their patients back at home worrying
cause these two are a little slack on their skills

Well Wigit you should give a f*** because it's your credibility that's going down the tubes here. Obviously you don't care if peopel dismiss your arguments as feeble. Great way to win a debate.

Had you bothered reading back around page 10 in this debate i actually floated the idea myself, but unlike you I didn't first discredit myself by denial of the forensic evidence in the car. This evidence included hair and blood. Any little body bundled into a spare tyre compartment would have hairs ripped off.

As I understand it the body fluids in the car included blood, but after 25 days of decomposition Madeline would have leaked other types of fluid too. The make up of that fluid and blood would have indicated whether she was alive or dead and also what type of sedatives were employed.

Clearly as doctors both parents had access to prescribed sedative medications.

I think it is disgusting that these parents sedated these children so they could go out an party.

Many years ago I went to the funeral for my ex's brother. After the burial, being maori, they had a boozy party for three days and nights in which nobody save myself stayed sober and cared for the kids.

At one point I was disgusted when two sister in laws quietened a new born baby who wouldn't stop crying for milk by leaning over the baby and blowing Marijuana smoke over the child.

It's the most disgusting form of child abuse. It is total selfishness and it tells me that the McCann's put their need ahead of their children and then duped the world with a sob story and their own PR campaign to feign innocence.

Hey Wiget...

Time you woke up and smelled the coffee.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Well Wigit you should give a f*** because it's your credibility that's going down the tubes here. Obviously you don't care if peopel dismiss your arguments as feeble. Great way to win a debate.

Why should I bother. Maybe I'm not as competitive as you seem to be. Do you think if you turn out to be right and I turn out to be wrong someone's gonna give you a sheriff badge and a pat on the back? If I'm wrong what's gonna happen to my credibility. Do you think the ATS will give me a lifetime ban? Do you think I should keep my trap shut while you can say what you think?

Had you bothered reading back around page 10 in this debate i actually floated the idea myself, but unlike you I didn't first discredit myself by denial of the forensic evidence in the car. This evidence included hair and blood. Any little body bundled into a spare tyre compartment would have hairs ripped off.

I really don't think the McCanns put a body in the spare tyre compartment of that car. Sounds like you believe all the tripe you read. Have the police made an official statement on that?

I think it is disgusting that these parents sedated these children so they could go out an party.

That, I believe, is a police theory 'cos they've nowt else to go on. I don't think they did that either. Have the police made an official statement on that? Maybe some calpol for heat stroke but not sleeping pills or syringes. That's ludicrous.

Many years ago I went to the funeral for my ex's brother. After the burial, being maori, they had a boozy party for three days and nights in which nobody save myself stayed sober and cared for the kids.

At one point I was disgusted when two sister in laws quietened a new born baby who wouldn't stop crying for milk by leaning over the baby and blowing Marijuana smoke over the child.
It's the most disgusting form of child abuse. It is total selfishness and it tells me that the McCann's put their need ahead of their children and then duped the world with a sob story and their own PR campaign to feign innocence.

You were disgusted at them blowing smoke at a new baby? I'd have blown my top. It sounds to me like you're still angry because you watched it happen and did nothing about it. I think there's a lot if misdirected anger on this board. So you think the MaCanns are guilty because of that? I don't see the connection but I seriously wished you'd punched one of them, or did something. Don't you?

Hey Wiget...

Time you woke up and smelled the coffee.

Can't stand the smell & never had a cup in my life. What elso do you want me to say? Two docs plugged their kids full of drugs so they could party. Then they stuffed one under the sofa for three weeks 'cos it died unfortunately, then into a car wheel compartment, pulling hair out as they did it, and then they threw it into a canal or under some road works somewhere to hide the evidence? Okay I'm convinced. Not.