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Madeline McCann's mother to be an official suspect

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posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Very true but also a few other people could be involved as well in this case.


That is why I am still curious as to why Murat was a suspect and may I ask do you know if Murat is still a suspect ?

The body had to be somewhere. Somebody else aside from the couple had to have a role.

The website and giant PR campaign was a smokescreen to distract attention. Maybe some of the closest supporters could find themselves as accessories to murder. Maybe they ought to review their stance and assist the Police if they're innocently involved ?




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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If Madeleine were found at some time during the night, having died of an over dose of a sedative, there is very little scope for the actions required, concealment of the body, thinking straight, getting ready for the academy award performance, etc.

On the other hand, if she died during the time between 6 PM (when last seen alive) and 8:30 PM, there is the difficulty of hiding the body in plain sight, under the covers, hoping that none of the independant child checkers among their dinner companions paused for a moment to take a peek at her cute little slumbering face, before the opening of the "show" at around 10:00 PM.

I wonder if, during the intensive search of the flat, following the "discovery" that she was missing, anyone asked the McCanns to open their luggage, or would that have been too pushy and rude at such a traumatic moment? Whatever way you look at it, if the McCanns did it, it was, in the words of Wellington at Waterloo, "a closely run thing."

That fact alone holds the door open to the possibility that, despite all else, they are innocent. Maybe that's why there have been no charges yet and police are waiting to build the strongest possible case.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:10 PM
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Forgive me because I am not intimately familiar with the events on the night she disappeared. When you mention 6pm, was Madeline seen alive at that time by any independent person ?

I also recall hearing that one of the parents kept slipping away from dinner to check on the apartment ?

Which parent was that ?

Who were the people they had dinner with ?
Were they relatives ?



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:15 PM
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I read in the press, sorry no link, that she was picked up at the "creche" (we call it "daycare" here in the New World) by her parents at 6PM and that creche staff were with her until that point.

If you google timeline in this case you will find that most of the timelines begin with her disappearance, but I did find one reference to her having been seen alive by creche staff at 6PM. There are a couple of press reports which deal with statements made by the staff of the resort, and McCann dinner companions. That's where I found the reference. Unfortunately I was on another computer at the time and I can't work out where I saw the article from this one.

I've just spent the last twenty minutes (in vain) trying to find that reference to the last independantly verified sighting of Madeleine alive (at the creche). I can't find one reference to that very important detail of the timeline anywhere. It makes one pause and think that maybe police investigations are really best left to the police, since they are apparently the only ones who think of minutiae like that.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by ipsedixit]

[edit on 10-9-2007 by ipsedixit]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 10:14 PM
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Sorry but I disagree... Asking questions is important and sometimes throws up unexpected angles:

3 May The McCann's were dining with Rachel Oldfield and Dr Russell O'Brien.

Gerry went to check on the kids at 9pm. No information how long he was away. He returned saying all was okay.

Kate McCann went to check at 10pm, found Madeline missing and rear window open.

Blood traces were not found on apartment wall until 6 August.

On 6 July a Dutch man in Eindhoven was arrested for trying to extort money for information. Was this the so called psychic source ?

Murat was questioned 14 May therefore had no opportunity to be involved with blood in the hire car so he is reasonably excluded.

Gerry McCann turns out to be the primary suspect.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 10:22 PM
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The rental car was hired on Sunday 27 May 2007. Three days later they were with the Pope. Did they drive from Portugal to Rome ?

If not... If they flew then where was the car whilst they were in Rome ?

Post script:

I am answering my own question:




They flew to Rome in a private jet belonging to the retail tycoon Sir Philip Green, who offered it for their use.


So what was the hire car doing at the time ?

[edit on 10-9-2007 by sy.gunson]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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Whilst in Rome, the remaining two McCann children were left with Gerry's sister and her husband in Portugal.

What were they up to when the media spotlight was on Rome ?



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
Whilst in Rome, the remaining two McCann children were left with Gerry's sister and her husband in Portugal.



This is something that makes me even more suspicious, any normal parent that has had a child disapeer would never let their other children out of their sight even with family member's yet until they flew back to england the other children were never seen, they seemed to have been dumped on family and friend's whilst the parent's went galavanting across europe



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 04:01 AM
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Now it seems the police dont have a 100 % match...


Portuguese police are playing down media reports that DNA found in a car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann was a 100% match to their missing daughter Madeleine.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
What were they up to when the media spotlight was on Rome ?


Well you can certainly take all these tidbits of information and weave a pretty compelling story out of them; however, as I said in another thread, I seriously doubt the parents (or anyone else) will ever be charged unless they find a body. I just don't see enough evidence for it.

edit:

I'll also say again this reminds me of the Natalee Holloway case, a lot of weak circumstantial evidence floating around out there, but so far nothing solid enough to stand up in court.

[edit on 9/11/2007 by djohnsto77]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
a lot of weak circumstantial evidence floating around out there, but so far nothing solid enough to stand up in court.


Very true indeed, but let's not forget that due to Portuguese confidentiality laws all that we have seen and heard so far has been police leaks, (unofficial or otherwise), comments by the McCann family or their associates and media speculation.

The actual body of evidence is likely to be far more extensive than has been so far confirmed and, hopefully, much more coherent.

Gerry McCann himself said this over the weekend:


Now I've seen what they've got I'm actually clearer in my mind why they've shifted and treated us so differently

News of The World


Whether or not it's good enough to charge anyone with remains to be seen but the authorities have plenty of time to continue the investigation if necessary.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 05:13 AM
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This is something that makes me even more suspicious, any normal parent that has had a child disapear would never let their other children out of their sight even with family member's yet until they flew back to england the other children were never seen, they seemed to have been dumped on family and friend's whilst the parent's went galavanting across europe



Valid point Solidshot.

Gerry says he was away for ten minutes (around 9pm) yet I think unless there is an as yet unknown aspect he and not his wife is the person of most interest.

Assuming he is right and they are both innocent, then which other persons had both access to Madeline and subsequently the car ?

Was Gerry's sister or brother in law present the night Madeline disappeared ?
They must have had access to the rental car when the couple were in Rome and I speculate this is when Madeline's body could have been disposed.

If they're innocent then they need to help others understand who that may have had access to the rental car when they were in Rome was also present on 3 May ?

Did other members of their family have keys ?
Is it possible some member of the extended family traveled to Portugal about 3 May ?

Even if they could have done so secretly ?

Did Gerry have an affair with another woman before Madeline's disappearance ?

Did he ever take another woman to the apartment ?

These are all questions that must be asked if they want to prove their innocence.

Was Gerry's sister childless ?

Were there pre-existing tensions with Gerry's sister ?


[edit on 11-9-2007 by sy.gunson]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 05:30 AM
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After reading to comment about Gery having an affair, something just came to mind. A friend told me recently that she heard Mrs. McCann was having an affair with the other man at the table with them that night, and, during the evening this other man left the table and was away for almost an hour. I don't know where she heard or read this, but I'll try and find out.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 06:19 AM
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That is why DNA on blood samples found in the hire car is so very important in this case.
Yesterday, the Portuguese police have denied press reports claiming 100% DNA sample match in the car. It doesn’t mean anything to us speculating because of the judicial secrecy laws as we don't get much information from the horses mouth until they drop the case or bring the charges against McCanns.

There is technology out there to find whether blood found came out from a dead or living person.
Technology is so well advanced in the whole spectrum of DNA profiling that they can even identify low level specimens without leaving room for speculation.

Based on the DNA evidence and other circumstantial and investigational evidence submitted by the police, the Public Prosecutor at Portuguese Judiciary(PJ) will have to arrive at a decision whether to

a) charge McCanns or not
b) continue further on the investigation due to insufficient evidence to charge

a) or b) its upto the people to speculate, but, in my opinion there will be a definite a) or b) answer by the end of this week.


Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by sy.gunson
What were they up to when the media spotlight was on Rome ?


Well you can certainly take all these tidbits of information and weave a pretty compelling story out of them; however, as I said in another thread, I seriously doubt the parents (or anyone else) will ever be charged unless they find a body. I just don't see enough evidence for it.

edit:

I'll also say again this reminds me of the Natalee Holloway case, a lot of weak circumstantial evidence floating around out there, but so far nothing solid enough to stand up in court.

[edit on 9/11/2007 by djohnsto77]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by mhano

Technology is so well advanced in the whole spectrum of DNA profiling that they can even identify low level specimens without leaving room for speculation.


do you mean the type of dna evidence that is now under doubt in the uk after convicting several people? read more here

so yesterday the newspapers say they were 100% guilty and today that is in doubt again...

if you want to read a REALLY interesting tale of dna reliability in a murder case, google the story of jaidyn leskie a little boy murdered in australia. it is one of the strangest stories you will read and it should keep you wondering for a while about experts, dna, reliability and contamination of evidence.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:00 AM
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I don't know if anyone has posted this already - apparently they didn't find an 100% blood match in the car, but they did find a "surprising amount of Madeleine's hair in the hired Renault Scenic":

www.timesonline.co.uk

Portuguese police today denied a report that they had found a perfect DNA match for Madeleine McCann in a sample of body fluids taken from a car hired by her parents 25 days after her disappearance.

But a source close to the investigation told The Times that forensics experts had found a surprising amount of Madeleine's hair in the hired Renault Scenic, which detectives now suspect was used to transport her corpse.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by nickh
"surprising amount of Madeleine's hair in the hired Renault Scenic":


How do they know it's her hair? I imagine some of her family (parents, siblings) has very similar hair (and for that matter DNA).

If the state is going to base a case wholly on this forensic evidence, they better be damned sure they have all their ducks in a row, have made sure there's no contamination, no way that the material could have come from one of Madeline's relatives, and no way that it was innocently transferred there.

I think that would be a very tough burden for the government to meet.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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The papers are misreporting this, they are denying they leaked anything to Sky news not the fact that it is untrue, but then they would say that due to the secrecy laws.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:16 AM
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Not sure what the latest reports are but last night iirc it was stated that they had more than one dna trace? one wasn't a full match and could have been explained by a towel or clothes that the missing kid had used being placed in the car, but the other peice of evidence was stated as being a full match making this peice of evidence to be less likely to have been put there through cross contamination.



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 07:31 AM
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How can samples appear at 3 places in the hired car, "DNA passing on" theory is too difficult to assume if they were blood/body fluid, especially in the boot of the car.

Police will have to work their cases out unless we are passed nonsense information.


Originally posted by justyc

Originally posted by mhano

Technology is so well advanced in the whole spectrum of DNA profiling that they can even identify low level specimens without leaving room for speculation.


do you mean the type of dna evidence that is now under doubt in the uk after convicting several people? read more here

so yesterday the newspapers say they were 100% guilty and today that is in doubt again...

if you want to read a REALLY interesting tale of dna reliability in a murder case, google the story of jaidyn leskie a little boy murdered in australia. it is one of the strangest stories you will read and it should keep you wondering for a while about experts, dna, reliability and contamination of evidence.



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