It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Court bans Christian cross on private land in public park

page: 2
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 11:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Let's not. There are people in this country who don't believe in god and don't want symbols of ANY god on public land. P




Yeah, and they are in the minute minority. The last time I looked, America was a DEMOCRACY. What does a DEMOCRACY mean? It means the MAJORITRY rules!!




posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
[Yeah, and they are in the minute minority.


won't be that way forever....religion is coming under more scrutinization lately and people are straying from it....this is a good thing.

maybe in my lifetime i will not have to hear about this anymore...i can only hope



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:05 PM
link   
I think, if you need a physical object such as a crucifix to support your religion, then you don't understand what religion is.

If people understood that religion itself should all reside in the spirit and mind, and nowhere else, maybe this whole "religion war" feeling can be deleted, and this entire thread could have been avoided.

You don't need a Bible, a Church, a Crucifix, or anything like that for a religion. You simply need your mind, and the thoughts within it.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:22 PM
link   
I'm seeing some very intolerant attitudes here.


Originally posted by 11 11
I think, if you need a physical object such as a crucifix to support your religion, then you don't understand what religion is.
:
You don't need a Bible, a Church, a Crucifix, or anything like that for a religion. You simply need your mind, and the thoughts within it.


Whether a person wants a crucifix to wear or display on their person or private property is their own personal, private decision. It's none of your business, really.


Originally posted by Boondock78
religion is coming under more scrutinization lately and people are straying from it....this is a good thing.

maybe in my lifetime i will not have to hear about this anymore...i can only hope

That's your opinion. Ignore it if it bothers you so much. There are many people in this world who find strength through their faith, and that is their business, not yours.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by jsobecky]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
That's your opinion. Ignore it if it bothers you so much. There are many people in this world who find strength through their faith, and that is their business, not yours.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by jsobecky]


i know it is my opinion and i am tired of ignoring it...

if they show strength of their faith in public or by knocking on my door or accosting me at the store then yes, it is my business. i just made it so.
see how that works?



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


Separation of church and state is the founding principal of this nation -- whether christians want to admit it or not. That means to KEEP THE RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS IN CHURCH WHERE THEY BELONG. Not on public land.

The founders knew that this would happen if they did not make it very clear in the beginning that religion has no place in public life. Democracy or no, the requirement to keep religion out of state affairs overrides it.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:56 PM
link   
Whats with the compulsion to display the cross (or any other religious symbol for that manner) in such an ostentatious manner? I relaize that each person defines thier own level of faith etc. If that is the case, why do you feel the need for such public displays? If the stregth of your conviction is so strong, the lowliest cross should have as much symbolism and power as some grandiose public display no?

Also I think the display of the cross in such a manner may violate the 2nd commandment:

Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.”



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:58 PM
link   
What gets me here is that the neo-cons are upholding the constitution...? The extremist Christian neo-cons?

I find this situation very, very unusual....



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Yeah, and they are in the minute minority. The last time I looked, America was a DEMOCRACY. What does a DEMOCRACY mean? It means the MAJORITRY rules!!


I have no problem with people displaying crosses on their own private property, or any other religious symbol.

But I don't want public property to have them, unless it is a religious property, such as a church. And I certainly do not want the government to display them.

Seriously, why does it irritate you Christians when you aren't held equally to other people?

You feel the need to be above them?

I agree there is some hypocrisy in it but really no matter what the Christians are in more control.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 01:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kacen
What gets me here is that the neo-cons are upholding the constitution...? The extremist Christian neo-cons?

I find this situation very, very unusual....


The 9th Circut Court based in San Francisco is fairly liberal compared to others, so its unlikely that the neocons were behind this ruling.



According to the most current count, the Ninth Circuit has the highest percentage of active judges appointed by Democratic presidents, with 59%. Until 2003, this percentage was much higher; a political stalemate over judicial nominations subsequently kept several vacancies on the court for several years.

Critics point to this preponderance of appointees of Democratic presidents as evidence that the court has a liberal bias. Such critics often point to 2002's Newdow v. U.S. Congress, in which the court declared that a public school district in Elk Grove, California could not force students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance; the pledge's inclusion of the words "under God," the court held, violated the Establishment Clause.
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 9/7/07 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 01:53 PM
link   
I can see why this ruling was made. By allowing the cross to be portrayed in the middle of the land, it would look as if the government is endorsing a single faith.

A similar hypothetical scenario would be if someone decided to try and buy a small section of land in the center of a public park and erect a small wall with passage of the Quran on it. To outsiders, this would look exactly like the entire public park endorsed Islam, when only it's the small section of land located in the center of it.

The reason why the ruling occurred is because the Sunrise Rock cross had already been settled there, and the goverment and not done anything to remove it, despite denying Buddhist the right to erect a Buddhist temple near the area. After the courts decided that the cross could not remain there anymore, Christian(s) tried to buy out the land the cross was built on, but the courts denied the purchase.

So to reiterate; the cross was there for many years, but the goverment recently decided it couldn't be there, so Christians tried to buy the land the cross was on, but they were denied the purchase.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 02:55 PM
link   
What a sobering indictment on the attitude of intolerance gripping this country. Not the 9th Courts ruling but the statements made by those posting to this thread. There is little difference between the hatred exhibited on this thread and the hate we associate with groups like the KKK, Nazi's or the Aryan Brotherhood.

I am a Christian. With that out of the way, I do not need visual symbols of my faith. My faith would be fake if I did. I could care less if that cross is there or not there. I am not offended by others who want it gone. It is the hatred they exhibit in their militancy about wanting it removed that worries me. Worries me is a bit weak here as it actually scares me.

As to the topic of foot baths for Muslims or breaks to accommodate their prayers while in school; you have my complete support. The same accommodations should be made for others beliefs as well. The only limit I would set on that is no belief that violates civil or criminal law should be accommodated.

These ridiculous claims by militant Religion-Phobes that the mere viewing of a Religious act somehow harms them is so ludicrous it fails the smell test miserably. Hate is hate under any guise. Until someone can show me a Cross or a statue of Buddha leap from its mount and physically assault someone my view is unlikely to change. Militant Atheism is itself a pseudo-Religion. A Religion of hate.

The person asking about the foot-baths who works in a public school. Do a search. This is old news covered many times in the mainstream media. Christians are not opposed to this but are simply pointing out the hypocrisy of it. Most of us support fully Muslim beliefs being accommodated and applaud the fact it is happening. Some with less than noble intentions would try and twist this to make you believe something else. Haters never miss an opportunity to spread their hate.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 03:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

I am a Christian.


^^^^well of course you are^^^^


Hate is hate under any guise.


i HATE religion. i think it is the most foul, repugnant thing to ever hit this planet....
fair enough?

don't hate you.....just all the crap you believe in.....i'd fight for you to be able to worship anything you want, so long as you do it in yoru house where i don't have to see/hear/smell, etc it.....

fair enough?
straight up enough?

no reason to sugar coat it



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 03:36 PM
link   
reply to post by FredT
 


Since this comes out of the USA's 9th Circuit Court, I expect this ruling to be overturned as are so many of their rulings.

See this LA Times article Disorder in the Court

[edit on 7/9/07 by Pellevoisin]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:20 PM
link   
Unbelievable! Over a cross.....

I too hate the hypocrisy and see Christians and there beliefs come under attack more and more each day. In Michigan there is a city that has a Muslim call to pray come over the town loud speaker five times a day! Imagine if it was a Christian message, but this is ok because you cant offend a Muslim. The whole hug a Muslim mentality makes me want to vomit.

Those of you who want to ban religion because you tire of it. Well boo hoo. imagine how a true Christian feels. They are assaulted every day via radio, tv, school and the behavior of people like yourselves that go against all that they believe in. You are as bad as any pesky Jehovah's witness.

What really gets me is the whole "offended" thing. Soon everyone is going to have so many rights that no one is going to have any. I say man the f up and quit crying like some school room sissy! So what if you see a religious object. So what if you get called a name. So what if you get offended. You probably needed it.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by manzoor
who u calling a ahole look in the mirror mate i am a muslim so what we can pray you got a problem?

always picking fight against muslims are you asking for one?


OK, the Ahole comment was for a WIDE range of people..NOT just muslims...so for that I apologize. But I do not apologize for how the muslim faith is the ONLY faith being given all the leaveway these days. You are right manzoor...its NOT your fault or the fault of any muslim...its the fault of my wonderful government!

My thing is they take the crosses and the nativity scenes from public places saying they are not allowed and offend people yet we have this:

www.latimes.com...

iht.com...

so there is your proof that the muslim faith overrules CHURCH & STATE! Then you have this:

www.frontpagemag.com...

lets rid the world of the bible and us christians just have to bend over and take it....but then OH WAIT....yet again muslims are now suing their jobs because they don't get to walk away from work to pray 5 times a day!!!!!! They are actually suing....last time i checked...I don't get to get up and walk away from my job 5 times a day!

www.washingtonpost.com...

I am all for one's faith....WHATEVER it might be....but damn...if your going to have rules or treat 1 religion a certain way treat them ALL the same way and not back down to accomidate one because your scared.

As for those who do not believe in god...so be it...thats your call but to try and say there should be no PUBLIC displays of religion anywhere.....I'll tell you what...I'll keep all my crosses in my house and NOT show them to the public if you do the same with yourself. See you guys wanna walk down the street and not see a cross or someone with faith...well I'd like to walk down the street and not see any non believers! So i guess reality is...we both have to just deal with it.

[edit on 7/9/07 by shadow_soldier1975]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
Whether a person wants a crucifix to wear or display on their person or private property is their own personal, private decision. It's none of your business, really.


Actually, it becomes my business when you display that crucifix physically. The only way it could possibly be "none of my business" is when someone worships their crucifix mentally.

You get it?



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 05:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
When seeing this and similar responses throughout the western world, it's no wonder there are increasingly obvious tensions between faiths.

In the mean time, let's be civil to each other... okay?


Oh yes FORGIVE me...I forgot..here in the west we do such bad things as curse..so now I can see why people of the east don't like us.

I mean in the east they behead, blow crap up, kill ANYONE to go get their reward, beat women, FORCE women and children to believe what THEY want...god what was I thinking using the word Ahole!


apc

posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 06:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by FredT
The 9th Circut Court based in San Francisco is fairly liberal compared to others, so its unlikely that the neocons were behind this ruling.

Fairly is an understatement. These "people" think it's OK to give explicit psychological sex surveys to elementary school children, and that parents have no right to object.



Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
The founders knew that this would happen if they did not make it very clear in the beginning that religion has no place in public life. Democracy or no, the requirement to keep religion out of state affairs overrides it.


I do not interpret the Constitution in this way. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

There can't be a law saying nobody can work Sundays, or Islam is illegal to practice. But if a City Hall wishes to put a nativity scene on the grass, a Star of David in a window, or hang spaghetti from the mirrors in State funded vehicles, they have every right to do it.

The corrupt misinterpretation of the 1st Amendment has gotten us to where we are today, with this country being dismantled piece by piece by Marxist sewer rats.

Next they'll want to take down crosses at Government cemeteries. They'll want to take In God We Trust off of our money.

I don't care what faith people practice. I have a great dislike for all organized religion. But stripping away the foundation of this nation is the one and only goal here.



[edit on 7-9-2007 by apc]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 06:29 PM
link   
"In God We Trust" got on the money in the 1950's. It's hardly the foundation of our nation, and I for one would like to see it go, as well as the "one nation under god" business that got into the pledge of allegiance in the same decade.

And if you refer to the Treaty of Tripoli, it states:


Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;


America is NOT a Christian nation. It is a secular and earthly nation, as planned by the founding fathers, that has been usurped by those with a religious agenda.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join