HIV conspiracy

reply to post by Jazzerman


You know i have heard that there was a group of monkey...the love monkeys or something. that have a big population with the SIV, and they have probably had this for a long time and we don't see that most of their population is gone. My theory is that the primates with SIV have diet that consists of a certain type of plant or fruit...maybe even an insect that helps to fight off the disease...just a theory

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I noticed a few inaccuracies in some of the comments here.

First let it be noted that HIV was NOT found in chimpanzees, ever. Since its HUMAN Immunodeficiency Virus. The chimpanzees carry SIV, or Simian Immunodeficiency Virus. It should be noted that SIV is non-transferable between species. They're isolated solely to each individual species. Infact, the mutations of SIV to HIV is just a commonly accepted hypothesis with no real evidence in it's favor. There never has been a case of HIV being FOUND in a monkey in order to proove that the virus did infact mutate.

I notice a few inaccuracies in your comments...

Over 120 diseases are shared between human and animals and resent ones that have mutated to have jumped from animals to humans are measles, influenza A, Ebola, SARS, dengue, and HIV.

Yes in Chimps it is SIV but the jump needs a mutated form and HIV has mutated very well, and continues to. The fact that Chimps got their SIV from two other breeds of monkeys shows how well this virus can evolve to other species. Here is an article on HIV being at least 75 years old in humans.

www.pbs.org...

LOL you must have been writing your post the same time I was making mine regarding the same questions LOL.

Thank you for the link Xtro,, that was EXACTLY what I was looking for and answers the questions in my post regarding the genus types.

Originally posted by Soulshock
''God'' is just a investion to control the people, just like religion.

Nothing like creating a thread just to get people off track and on to another one eh?

How's this for an answer to yours smart guy

"I don't believe you and I don't disbelieve you either"

Now,, you tell me,, where do I stand on the matter?

The answer to that should give you a better idea where ALL your posts stand with any one having a 3rd grade education and above.

jazzerman, where do you think this thing got started?

sorry if i missed it...this is one i never got into but it is getting interesting

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Soulshock
Do you believe the HIV was created as a population control? or just as some experiment?
Some people claim the medicine against HIV just makes the virus worse and spread and that the government has a medicine anti-hiv but does not give it to the public because of the income $$ that anti-hiv drugs generate.

What is your opinion?

They invented the common cold too. Ever notice that a virus is not natural. They still do not know if it is animal, mineral or vegetable. These viruses are so alien that they can only be manmade.

How else do the pharmaceutical companies rake in the profits? The cost of one year supply of HIV meds is more than $1000 per month and since they killed off a bunch of people for the hype they now release meds that doesn’t cure it, but just contains it for your life time. Let’s see.. a million dollars spent for these drugs over the ones life time is a very nice renewable income source, and something along the lines of a flu shots (another renewable income source for something they made, but do not want to cure) that could have a delayed HIV reaction to hit about the time a person is sexually active…YES blame it on the sex!

The good news is they will make sure you live 100 plus years for you are a very valuable income sourse for them and they wouldn’t want that to stop anytime soon.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

Appreciated the link to the PBS feature but ,, ya know LOL I can't find ANYTHING in it or any other "reputable" place to substantiate an evil scientist theory for profit. Realizing the HUGE amounts of money needed to make such meds with research is justification for charging huge sums of money for an ROI wouldn't you say? You say it is alien? compared to what? You show me a fast mutating virus found in nature that one couldn't say is out of this world and Ill show you someone who thinks anything they don't understand must have an evil greedy scientist creating it.

Originally posted by Conspiriology

Appreciated the link to the PBS feature but ,, ya know LOL I can't find ANYTHING in it or any other "reputable" place to substantiate an evil scientist theory for profit. Realizing the HUGE amounts of money needed to make such meds with research is justification for charging huge sums of money for an ROI wouldn't you say? You say it is alien? compared to what? You show me a fast mutating virus found in nature that one couldn't say is out of this world and Ill show you someone who thinks anything they don't understand must have an evil greedy scientist creating it.

I can't for it is my theory on how anyone can make up a story anytime they want.

Originally posted by Musky
If you have time or are so inclined, when you make your next post could you include a couple brief comments regarding how those that work in the field view Hooper's theory?

I've been to his website and know he continues to push the idea that a polio vaccine is responsible, but I don't believe there are many who support him.

Hooper's theory is generally not accepted as good scientific research by the global community. There are several aspects of his theory that have been disproven, but he still continues to support his beliefs in the face of verifiable evidence to the contrary. For one, results with Genetic sequencing in Africa have revealed that this particular Lentivirus entered the human population on at least 8 seperate occasions, and that the last of these was sometime around the mid-1930's. The polio vaccine was not fully developed and into its trial phases until the 1950's, which clearly leaves a 20 something year time span between the two events. Now, the interesting thing is that the original samples from the polio vaccination trials have been in cold storage since the late 50's. When recent tests were done on these samples it was determined that they were ALL negative for Chimpanzee mitochondrial DNA, HIV-1 releated nucleic acid, or any trace of SIV. To compound the issue further, the polio vaccines were manufactured with a chemically active enzyme called Trypsin (a naturally occuring chemical found in the human Intestine and Pancreas that acts to Hydrolyse proteins into smaller peptides or amino acids), which after being frozen and filtered would kill or filter out any virions located in the samples.

In fact, before the vaccines for Polio can be developed they have to go through a formal process of clearance. HIV and SIV are too unstable to survive this process, which involves the following:

1. Kidney tissue washing
2. Administration of Trypsin in .25% concentrations
3. Incubation at 99 degrees F for 7 days and at 93 degrees for 2 days
4. Another wash before inoculation
5. Freezing and thawing 4 times at -4 Degrees F (SIV and HIV cannot withstand this huge reduction in temperature)
6. Seitz Filtration thorugh Cellulose and Asbestos (this process is very reliable for removing viruses from any culture)

Therefore, it is almost impossible that HIV would have survived through this process and the original criteria for the development of the Polio vaccine.

reply to post by Jazzerman

Thank you, sir. Interesting. It's been a while since I read the book. I seem to recall the one lot of virus he was most concerned with had been made with chimp kidneys that had not been properly treated, and that that lot was one not in cold storage so could not be tested.

From what you're saying, however, there has been considerably more investigation than what I was aware of. I appreciate you taking the time to explain why his theory is not considered sound.

If his theory was true, it would have to be considered one of, it not the, most monumental blunder in the history of mankind. I'm glad it has been refuted.

The book, however, was very interesting. I read a lot of mysteries (fiction), and it was quite a real life detective story.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I'd just like to read a thread on here once where religion is mentioned and a dozen people don't respond by calling Christianity a "fairy tale" and equating Jesus Christ to Santa Claus. Just because one moron says that HIV is a punishment from God to the gay community does not mean that all Christians believe that. It doesn't even mean that any measureable number of Christians, at least in this country, believe it. You shouldn't lump the radicle fringe elements of Christianity in with the rest of us, just as one shouldn't condemn all of Islam over the actions of terrorists.

Yeah this is one of those times I feel torn between two zealots lol. I agree with all of your post about GOD and have argued the point with Majormalfunction as he knows in the creationist vs evolution threads.

Having said that, I would suggest such questions regarding or insighting such issues STAY in those threads. Can we all agree to that and stay on topic? Jeez even the nimrod that started this thread is doing it.

I wish I knew of a third label for people like me who just don't fit in the debunker squad for things like 911truth arguments. I leave just enough of an open mind to get reemed there as I DO consider some of the more plausible theory I have read about. In this subject however,, I don't even have to feel careful about choosing my battles, I am with Major all the way on this one. I just haven't seen anything plausible to suggest this virus isn't just what the mainstream says it is.

Originally posted by Xtrozero


I can't for it is my theory on how anyone can make up a story anytime they want.

Well I got to hand it to you,, it is people like you that keep people like me on the damn wheel spinning. Just what kind of kick out of that you get I'll never know but what ever floats your boat I guess.

I get just as frustrated as the guy who says whenever someone uses the word GOD it makes him want to bite off a piece of his arse. O MY GOD! I think I just figured out what that kick is you get out of this LOL.

That would be a good label for that third category Atmosphere people LOL

Warm Regards

reply to post by Boondock78


Hey, BD, there's a good article on it here.

Just in case Jazzerman's busy right now.

Oh, this is interesting too:

Origin of HIV

Where did HIV originate? First, HIV-2 is very closely related to SIV, the simian immune virus, found in sooty mangabeys. Baboons can be infected with HIV-1 and they can also suffer from a version of SIV. At the 6th American Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections held in Chicago from January 31-February 4, 1999, one of the keynote papers delivered by Beatrice Hahn on the first day presented evidence that HIV-1 is likely to have originated in West African chimpanzees of the species Pan troglodytes troglodytes. HIV could have been transferred from monkeys because they have long been kept as pets and used for food. When hunting monkeys it is not unusual for both the hunter and the hunted to exchange blood during capture. Currently there is a large market in "bush meat" obtained from monkeys. This does not bode well because there may well be continuing transfer of the disease from monkeys to humans.

The earliest fully documented case of HIV dates back to 1959. A Congolese man's blood sample from a medical study was preserved, found, and then analyzed in 1998. It was verified that he had been HIV+. Other suspected, but unverified because of the lack of either blood or tissue samples, cases date back as early as 1934. On February 1, 2000, M. Korber, et al. reported the results of a phylogenetic statistical analysis of the evolution of the retroviral genome of HIV using complex mathematical models allowing for both constant and variable rates of evolution. Her group's analysis required the use of supercomputers to backtrack the evolution to its source from monkeys. The most reliable time of origin in humans is somewhere around 1930 (a 95% confidence interval extends from 1910 to 1950). Several naysayers have claimed that the disease originated from the use of African green monkey kidneys to cultivate poliovirus in the late 1950's and early 1960's. This analysis finds that argument to be a very low probability event, hence quite unlikely.

The first recorded cases in the U.S. occurred in New York City in 1952, 1959, and 1979. The cases from the 1950s were both males with PCP and other unusual infections. The first reported cases were those in the June 5, 1981 MMWR mentioned earlier. The watershed event that brought the disease into full view of the public eye was the announcement that the (thought to be very macho) film star Rock Hudson had the disease. (Even after he had been diagnosed with AIDS, he continued cruising the gay bars and did not notify any of his sexual partners of his HIV status.)

Also, from an abstract:

These results, together with the observation that the natural range of P. t. troglodytes coincides uniquely with areas of HIV-1 group M, N and O endemicity, indicate that P. t. troglodytes is the primary reservoir for HIV-1 and has been the source of at least three independent introductions of SIVcpz into the human population.

Thanks Major! Those articles and links are great. Now as for you soulshock as much as I disagree with you and your atheist friends on the topic of GOD. I can always separate my animosity from infecting my open mind on any other subject. Faith seems to be the underlying culprit in the latter subject. On this one,, I see you and major are pretty much the same where GOD is but worlds apart on HIV.

I find Major and Jazz arguments the most compelling regarding this virus and it's origin.

Oh and by the way Soulshock the idea of having sex with monkeys isn't as far fetched as you might think.

Stranger things have happened

Conspiriology, it's always a great pleasure to find common ground with someone that, in the not too distant past, I was having a heated "discussion."

It's all good. It is also refreshing to find someone very religious that isn't claiming it's a judgment from god. That really offends me, as if it wasn't obvious.

Originally posted by Soulshock
Do you believe the HIV was created as a population control? or just as some experiment?
Some people claim the medicine against HIV just makes the virus worse and spread and that the government has a medicine anti-hiv but does not give it to the public because of the income $$ that anti-hiv drugs generate.

What is your opinion?

thefatlady replies:

There is some truth to all 3 theories. When we wanted to vaccinate all of Africa, the private donor said we had to set up a sustainable lab in Africa to make the vaccines. We unfortunately turned to monkeys to make some of the serums because they were plentiful. The people who got those initial vaccines got the milder form of the disease, SIV. Later, sinister elements in our US gov't sent us over to vaccinate on a large scale. Under CIA project NAOMI a plan was apparently hatched to kill a lot of people using a vaccine that was contaminated with a much more virulent form of the disease. About 18 months after we went, the people we vaccinated were dying like flies from AIDS. We blew the whistle on this, having STRONG objections to it!!! The only thing that saved US from going down for crimes against humanity was that we had tested the vaccines on ourselves. Since then have discovered that there are much better and safer ways to kill the AIDS virus than AZT and the antivirals. The virus lives in the intestinal tract of fluke parasites. You take a course of herbs, go on a special diet and personal routine free of toxins, zap parasites with a tiny 9 volt battery-alternating current-- and if you're young and healthy and if the disease was not too far progressed, and if you don't get reinfected---presto---you're cured. Life long vigilance though is reccomended as the parasites are pretty ubiquitious and they are very very hard to clear from the bowel and some body tissues. Your primary weapon is cloves, large doses, and it's better for pregnant women than AZT not only because it's safer, but because the cloves cross the placenta and provide the baby more protection than AZT. Both mom and baby will usually convert to HIV negative, which usually means with some vigilance, it's safe to have a vaginal birth and to breastfeed. I am likely the longest surviving person documented to have been (past tense) infected with AIDS. I had survived SIV after having been bitten by a monkey in the early 60's. Then got raped by patient D after the virus went to his brain. Then my Ex and I passed it back and forth a few times--no fun!! For sufferers--read HULDA CLARK's books at any health food store. I do want to say this though, these strategies I reccomended are to be used primarily as an ADJUNCT to conventional care, NOT instead of it. I can't take AZT, it shuts down my liver, but most people wouild probably want to use both strategies, unless you're pregnant, then there are some hard decisions to be made dependent on your own personal situation. For a preg woman who is early in her preg and not acutely ill--I would start with Ms Clark's routine and see if you can get converted to HIV neg. You will usually see results very rapidly if you use high doses of cloves from the begining and follow the instructions very carefully. Then if that works for you, continue for the remainder of the preg and breastfeeding---very vigilant. If it doesn't work for you or if you have infections or are acutely ill, you'd want to use conventional medicine.---Do Not Delay. Either way, your Dr. is vital to your program, doing bloodwork to let you know what your status is, and whether you're successful or need to take more steps. Our little girl is healthy and HIV neg. [I had so much cloves in my system when she was born the whole birthing room smelled of it!!!]

[edit on 7-9-2007 by thefatlady]

Originally posted by Conspiriology

Originally posted by Xtrozero


I can't for it is my theory on how anyone can make up a story anytime they want.

Well I got to hand it to you,, it is people like you that keep people like me on the damn wheel spinning. Just what kind of kick out of that you get I'll never know but what ever floats your boat I guess.

I get just as frustrated as the guy who says whenever someone uses the word GOD it makes him want to bite off a piece of his arse. O MY GOD! I think I just figured out what that kick is you get out of this LOL.

That would be a good label for that third category Atmosphere people LOL

Warm Regards

Actually it was a poor attempt at being sarcastic. I find many interesting posts on this site but I also find many that I really feel the author just types out random thoughts off the top of their head, much like I did.
Take the OP as example, he just jumps into two far out theories as more of a rant than a well thought out posts on his views and then wants us to give opinion on only two rather poor choices. It is just my opinion went a different direction .

My second I gave it a more scholarly try hehe

thats a rad article major.....the friggin 30's?

dayum

Originally posted by chickeneater
I am not a religious fanatic, until I see HIV epidemic. It's so widespread amongst homosexuals and we still have no cure, not even a vaccine, it's God's way of signalling His disapproval of this behaviour. It's a punishment of the deviation of what human supposed to do.

You are neither an ambassador for God or his messenger moreover it is people like you that assist all the christaphobia I see in the world. If you want talk about this as "sinful" homosexuals then why don't you tell me "christian",, on a scale from one to ten where 10 is the worst sin and 1 would rate as oh,, say a misdemeanor,, Where would gay sin be in your opinion?

Now, using the same scale tell me where bearing false wittness would be?

Now if you have'nt already figured out where I am going with this,, tell me christian,, how many sins does it take to go to hell?

You know,, according to that bible we use,, can you answer that?

If you have read it, you know it takes only one and according to that same bible you were born with it already.

Like taxes we are born with debt else there would have been a zero on the scale lol.

It doesn't matter what the value you place on the sin. To be sure it doesn't matter if it is a ten on your scale or merely a one, all ten of the values will get ya what? Ill tell you something else kid, several friends of mine that died of this aweful thing were scared of dying and they new it was coming. One of them was at one time a amateur body builder and was one buff big man. This guy feared NOTHING when he was here and apparently he had contracted the virus sharing needles with steroid users.

Near the end he was skin and bone and cried like a baby many times right in front of me. By the time he died,, he was ready to go and was calm and said he no longer feared his coming death. I knew it was the last time I would see him and I hugged him saying I would pray for a miracle.

He told me it had already happened, I heard the crackling in his voice and knew he was crying again. That got me crying also and I asked what he meant. He said it had been so long since anyone hugged him and he asked GOD for that experience before he was taken.

I sent as many more of those I knew would add to that and weren't afraid of touching him. A couple of them didn't even know him until that day they visted him.

what ever your reason for using GOD behind the guise of your religious condemnation is hate, fear, and ignorance both of the word and of HIV, AIDS. Your comments fuel the phobias and mis information of GOD, Christians and the Homosexual. If you really are a GOD fearing (respecting) person, then you should apologise for saying such a thing

If not,, then shame on you for sayin it.

-=[conspiriology]=-

Originally posted by Conspiriology
variant strains of HIV has been discovered in the bodies found entombed in sarcophagus's in Egypt.

Interesting comment there...A source or two perhaps to add some weight ?

Thanks

Originally posted by Rilence

Originally posted by Conspiriology
variant strains of HIV has been discovered in the bodies found entombed in sarcophagus's in Egypt.

Interesting comment there...A source or two perhaps to add some weight ?

Thanks

Jeez guy I wish I could, as I said in op I got that out of a book I had read about AIDs. I even remember the library was Glendale Public in AZ. It was long ago but I am pretty sure they might still have it. I have googled some and only found some info that doesn't corroborate the exact virus just virus's in general. The one I read was very specific about it being HIV. I drive by there on route to work I'll see if can find it then post it.