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Do YOU trust the voting process??

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posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:02 PM
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I have noticed a recurring theme amongst a lot of people these days when talking politics - they seem to think that the American voting process is fixed, rigged, compromised and as many believe a complete sham.

Obviously a great deal of this stems from the previous election when Bush Jr. "stole" the state of Florida, shifting the vote and enabling him to win over Al Gore. Many people were deterred from the voting process as a result of that one single election.

Whenever somone brings up the possibility that Ron Paul will run and possibly win our next presidential election there seems to always be an overcast of nay sayers who instantly chime in the point of the elction process being rigged and pointing it out as a major reason why Mr. Paul has no chance. Often times I try to figure out if these people are simply disenfranchised voters and only being cynical, or if this many people actually and truly believe that voting is futile and the results are pre determined.

If this is the case, how many other election were possibly staged? What about Nixon, LBJ, even as far back as to the days of Lincoln and Garfield. How many previous elections could have been rigged? If you truly, honestly are one of these people who feels that voting is pointless and the game is being fixed, what led you to feel this way and how do you feel about the honesty and integrity of our democratic process as it stands on this day? Is this an organized conspiracy by the powers that be, or more a result of years of distrust in regards to the political process?

Interesting to see just how many people out there fit this category, any commentary or replies are welcome.




posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:13 PM
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Yes, vote fraud is very real. It goes back as far as voting.

There were rumors that the mob stuffed ballot boxes for JFK without his consent.


For me, the big one was florida 2000. Not every vote was counted, and when they were it became clear that Gore won! Tens of THOUSANDS of innocent black voters were put on the felon list so that they couldnt vote. FOX reversed the results of the election by broadcasting the results they wanted. The supreme court stepped in, usurping the whole process, and simply declared bush the winner even tho the recount was still going on.

Then in 2004, again, tons of fraud. Not enough voting booths at democratic locations expecting lots of traffic. The result being a three hour wait to vote, too long for most voters.

Then there's the Diebold. Nobody can really say for certain what the # is going on there. Our government FEC cannot look at the source code. They have IR ports and all sorts of vulnerabilities with no paper trail.

George Bush, a guy that would steal two elections... what makes you think he won't take a third?



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by sp00n1
 


This is truth. Voting fraud is reality, not a matter of "what ifs." These are all fine examples of recent fraud.

I seriously don't understand why more people don't question these paperless voting machines. Diebold has so many ties to powerful GOP members it's not funny (in fact it's horribly sickening).



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:38 PM
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Most of the problem comes from the fact that people don't question the process. People just assume that somebody else has made sure its all legit, so they can sit back on their fat asses.

People are so overwhelmed with all of the 'safe-guards' that go into the process that they fail to see how e-voting totally bypasses all of these safe guards. They naively assume that our leaders would never do such a thing.

It's a problem known as 'adverse selection'. The people most likely to cheat the system are those most likely to seek a position where they have the power to cheat (and hence most likely to cheat to get into that position in the first place).

[edit on 9/5/2007 by sp00n1]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 12:54 AM
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interesting you should bring this up,i just watched an HBO special called "hacking democracy" it shows and proved the voting is was and always will be set up for the powers that be... they focused on the bush win against gore.. and they showed how the machines were subtracting votes from gore and adding them to bush... funny how people can find this out,document it..and air this on HBO....and it seems no one still cares. sad world.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 04:26 AM
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Walden O'Dell

en.wikipedia.org...

Who knows how long it's been going on... It amazes me that when I get curious about a subject - I do research on it and make my own conclusions. But a lot of the people I talk to at work just accept whatever they hear on the news - "Oh quit your crying there's nothing wrong with the voting system"...

www.commondreams.org...

Walden O'Dell used to run Diebold - a company that makes voting machines (ATMs as well).


O'Dell ... penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.


Can you say conflict of interest?

[edit on 6-9-2007 by Angry Danish]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 04:37 AM
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nope i do not and i simply do not vote. i am not registered and i do not plan on becoming registered.
I made this choice during the 2000 elections at 16 years old that i was not going to vote when i turned 18 for i could "just tell" (haahha) that it was all bunch of b.s I met soo many anti bush people and was shocked homeboy was voted in. and shocked he was voted in again after all the hating.
I am now 23 and still feel the same way.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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O'Dell ... penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.



This is the first time I had heard of anything like this. Apparently the rabbit hole goes even deeper than even I had suspected.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by TheBadge
 


NO! That's the wrong attitude! That's what they want you to do!

They want you to give up and just submit to their tyranny, I for one will not!

I'm not saying you have to vote for bush or gore, because the lesser of the two evils is still evil! Vote for yourself for all i care, just vote! Make your voice heard! Get it on the record that you dont approve of these puppet schmucks running a muck!

And when it turns out your vote was not counted, RAISE HOLY HELL!



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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I know Florida will be ready for 2008 with paper optical-scan machines and not the touch-screen voting some precincts used in 2004. Not sure what to think about it, many will recall the 200,000 or so people in Palm Beach County who accidentally voted for Buchanan in 2000 who meant to vote for Gore, but were too stupid to read their ballots correctly (back when they used actual paper ballots) - at least the touch-screens in 2004 were easy enough for those folks to figure out.

Not sure why only some of the touch-screen machines gave print-outs because they are really so easy to use. In 2004 I didn't even get an "I Voted" sticker, I remember after voting having the feeling as if there were no proof I had ever even been there. The election results turned out for the best, but the act of voting itself gave me a strange feeling.

Hopefully the paper ballots to be used with the new optical-scan machines in 2008 will reassure some people. But regardless of who wins and what voting method is used some of the folks that supported the candidates that lost will be discussing how the other party rigged the election. Do I trust the process? Not wholeheartedly, I'd do things differently. Do I believe there was a large concerted effort to rig the past two elections? No.

It can never be entirely secure as long as we have private "secret ballots", but without secret ballots you don't really have a democratic process because people can be pressured into voting a certain way.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


No, I don't.

You can not trust a political system that choses the candidates for you coming from the two main ruling parties.

It completely eliminates competition and the chance for third parties to thrive and have a chance.



[edit on 6-9-2007 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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Our votes haven't counted in seventy years.
The concern over the voting machines or butterfly ballots is a distraction technique.
The whole election process is an orchestrated event intended to provide us with hope... but nothing more.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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As much as I want to belive its true.. I have no proof to say its an honest election in all my years on this earth..

I belive our leaders are selected, not elected..

I sure have hopes for Ron Paul.. As this will be my first year going out, putting up signs, doing some real foot work..

People tell me, man you are wasting you're time... I think I am giving this one more shot!! One more chance at making things right!!

Will our vote count? I can only hope for the best..

As when things do come to light, I can atleast say I did try! This year..
I have never voted in my life because I do think its rigged..

But this year, I have hopes agin, that people will all see it as rigged, which is illegal!! We can stop them if we stick together!!! Cant we?



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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No, I do not trust the voting system, not so much for fear of it being rigged (although I am sure it happens) by for the fact that every democratic system is in the end reduced to two major parties.

Both of these parties have the same motivations, interests and goals. Both are lobbied by the same hopeful lobbyists, both recruit from the same sources...

The point I am trying to make is that the democratic process only presents the illusion of choice and leadership whilst the real power is wielded elsewhere.

Scratch the surface on any major political party these days and you will see that underneath they are all cut from the same cloth and will ultimately experience the same influences producing an almost identical result. Voting is a total waste of time in this climate and the process is in need of serious and comprehensive review.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 10:14 PM
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There will always be voter fraud. I think the candidates are seldom involved though. It is over zealous campaigners who are probably responsible for most of it. I think since voter fraud is probably equal on both sides it tends to cancel itself out.

I think our system in the United States is as honest as any on the entire Planet which is not saying much. To pretend that other countries are somehow different in this regard is at best a lie.

Democrats will lie to themselves and say that only the Republicans do it and Republicans will say the same. Other countries will lie and say it does not happen there but that does not make it so. Lets hope the fact everyone is doing it levels the field and keeps it close to honest.

To those who don't vote. People gave their lives to give you that right and it is pure unadulterated laziness not to use that right. I don't buy the my vote does not matter rhetoric. I told myself the same lie when I was still a child in my 20's. It was an intellectual lie then and it is one now. No vote equals no voice and only proves you don't really care. I am deeply embarrassed to admit I was in my 30's before I realized that.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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To answer your question yes and no. Once the voting process became computerized it became vulnerable. I do trust it on a local level, say judges and councilmen but I will no longer vote on a nation election. The PTB will see to it that the man or woman of THEIR choosing gets into the position they want them in.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 11:49 PM
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To those who don't vote. People gave their lives to give you that right and it is pure unadulterated laziness not to use that right. I don't buy the my vote does not matter rhetoric. I told myself the same lie when I was still a child in my 20's. It was an intellectual lie then and it is one now. No vote equals no voice and only proves you don't really care. I am deeply embarrassed to admit I was in my 30's before I realized that.



I must admit that I am guilty of this as well. I am 30 years old and have never voted in any presidential election, and I guess I feel a bit ashamed about that considering the sacrifices made that allowed me the right to cast my vote.

But I will be blunt here, since I have been old enough to understand the concept of voting and free election there has never been one single candidate who sparked my interest in any way. In the end you only end up with a cast of losers to choose from, having to select the lesser of the provided evils, and quite honestly it has never appealed to me. I catch flack from people all the time when I tell them I do not vote. But honestly I have never encountered a candidate who spoke about anything that I could really relate to on a meaningful level. Being a younger working middle class type, I find that these "candidates" are so far out of touch with reality and the plight of the common average American citizens that they appear completely phony and laughable.

Candidates who I truly felt were rotten, incapable or downright bizarre - Dan Quayle, Robert Dukakis, Joseph Lieberman, Howard Dean, Ross Perot, both Bush's, Walter Mondale, Al Gore, Pant Suit, and so on and so on. They are all fake politicians and deserve nothing but contempt in my mind. Here we are approaching another election in 2008 and the options this time around are NO BETTER, in fact in most cases are worse than the clowns from elections past. I just can't convince myself that voting for wealthy self serving scumbag A.) over elitist ass clown B.) is going to do me or my country a bit of good. Yes I am disenfranchised, but really can you blame me?

Edit to add - Dennis Kucinich (sp?) scares me...how creepy can one little guy be?

[edit on 9/6/07 by BlackOps719]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


Dude!! What about Ron Paul?!?! The first politician i ever really felt worth supporting!?!?


Although i must agree with you about not voting when the only options are scumbags, although i write in anybody just to vote.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. If you vote for a schmuck you are condoning their actions.

I'm not saying you shouldnt vote, im saying that you should vote but you need to demand better candidates!



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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100% proof of voter fraud! Greg Palast of the BBC breaks down all of the 'voting irregularities' and shows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Bush-Rovian team fudged the numbers in their favor.




Banned BBC documentary documenting the voter fraud.


Google Video Link



posted on Sep, 13 2007 @ 12:27 AM
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I don't trust it mostly. From what I've seen with the voting that I've participated in, it's just very open for error and fraud.



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