What/Who is good/evil

I suppose we really need to first start with WHO is qualified to decide what is good or evil.

Are you? Am I? Is any given religious leader?

If you say god, how do we know that we have his words-not just someone who says he does?

Is it even religion based? Culturally/country based?

Let me give you some examples that seem to defy this logic.

A person straps on a belt of explosives and detonates in among women and children civilians. Many see this as evil, however, some see this as good.

A person bombs an abortion clinic and kills some doctors and nurses.
Many see that as evil, but some see it as good.


so what is good and evil?????????????

Words do not have meaning.




We can apply anything to object, concept, and expression. With no right or wrong answer.

Good or evil is, in my opinion, defined by personal and community standards, with community standards overriding personal ones in most cases. A community has the right to reject another community's definition of good and evil and even to impose their definitions on that community, in my opinion. However, everyone should know what the consequences are of trying to impose their values on others and be sure they are prepared for them before they decide to take such action.

Words do not have meaning.
We can apply anything to object, concept, and expression. With no right or wrong answer.

I have no idea what you just said. Could you please clarify seeing that I would like to understand you.

evil is what humanity makes of it...

from the point of view of many people in the world, yahweh is a good being... from my point of view, i'd say yahweh is an evil being.... this is normally the part where i'd reference richard dawkins' quote... hell, i'll do it anyway!

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
evil is what humanity makes of it...

from the point of view of many people in the world, yahweh is a good being... from my point of view, i'd say yahweh is an evil being.... this is normally the part where i'd reference richard dawkins' quote... hell, i'll do it anyway!

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

This if I'm correct is the Gnostic view of the God of the Old Testament. Yet Christianity today claims God is All Good, and love. It can't be both, is this not a huge contradiction in the Bible?

Chitterlings=evil

Vanilla ice cream is good

well you did say who or what?

In all seriousness its really simple imo.

Good wants to create and live...
Evil wants to destroy and die.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I suppose we really need to first start with WHO is qualified to decide what is good or evil.

God.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Are you? Am I? Is any given religious leader?

No.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
If you say god, how do we know that we have his words-not just someone who says he does?

Ask Him. If you need help establishing the connection, feel free to U2U me.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Is it even religion based?

If the definition you're using is "the service and worship of God..." then yes.

(quote reference www.m-w.com... )

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Culturally/country based?

Nope.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Let me give you some examples that seem to defy this logic.

A person straps on a belt of explosives and detonates in among women and children civilians. Many see this as evil, however, some see this as good.

Those who see it as 'good' have no grouding/foundation for calling it such. This happens a lot with relativism. Definition for relativism is here www.m-w.com...

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
A person bombs an abortion clinic and kills some doctors and nurses.
Many see that as evil, but some see it as good.

Some are clearly screwed up.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
so what is good and evil?????????????

Good is the set standard of what is right and holy in the eyes of God.

Evil is anything that fails to meet that standard.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by saint4God]

sait, thank you for taking the time to answer.

I respect your thoughts and opinions, but I am not sure I agree with all of them.

You say only "god" is qualified to say what is good/evil.
OK, and how do we know what IS Gods words and what are the words of a mear man.
How can you prove those are Gods words/desires/meaning???
NO, really!

I am all to happy to agree that religious leaders DON"T or shouldn't try to do that-even though this is often done.
It is my personal opinion that many religious leaders are evil in as they teach hate and murder of others-these are the truely evil ones.
I come to believe that most people are peaceful enough, until you add religion and more important, religious leaders, who use there place of power to comvince others to kill/murder in "GODS" name.

IMO, more destruction/killing and unspeakable events have occured "IN THE NAME OF RELIGION X"

It seems to me that tyhe devil on this Earth is all those sick/demented/evil religious leaders who incourage hurting/killing others.

It seems we more or less agree what is good/evil is a country/cultural/religious.

The last part of my rant is how all religion looks down on other religion and causes it's followeras to do the same.

I am not a religious person mainly because I have never experienced anything to make me believe, and I am in no way attacking religion with my comments, everyone is free to choose what they believe but IMO religion was created as a form of control through fear. Everyone is capable of both good and bad, it is the choice of the individual.

I'm not really sure but i have this to say:

Beware of anyone who tells you they love you. The more some hate you, the more they're inclined to profess their love for you.

Not always, but sometimes. And i'm not speaking about husband and wife or boyfriend/girlfriend. I'm speaking in general.

Beware, that is the ultimate evil.

I agree with you that people must make the choice to be good or evil in their thoughts and actions.

I also feel people must take responsibility for their actions, even if those actions are encouraged by others.

Everyone must think to themselves, is killing/other things others right, even if proposed by religious leader, if it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill.

This brings up another sticky question, what about self/family/country defences????

If a man/woman have a explosives belt on and heading towards your wife/family, is it ok to kill him to save your family???

Is killing, killing, or is this a more gray issue VS black and white???

That is a good question mrmonsoon.

I think that instinct would take over in a situation like that. I would do my upmost to protect my family by whatever means possible, If i killed that person it would be something I would have to live with. Does that mean that my actions were justified, in the eyes of God, probably not.
We are too dependent on what we are told to do, we no longer rely on our instincts. We should do what we feel is right, not what we are told is right.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
sait, thank you for taking the time to answer.

Sure thing, just trying to help.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I respect your thoughts and opinions, but I am not sure I agree with all of them.

I understand, I know where you're coming from.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
You say only "god" is qualified to say what is good/evil.
OK, and how do we know what IS Gods words and what are the words of a mear man.
How can you prove those are Gods words/desires/meaning???
NO, really!

Ask Him.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
The last part of my rant is how all religion looks down on other religion and causes it's followeras to do the same.

If you're saying there are hypocrites in Christianity, it's a point where you and Christ agree:

"But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?" - Matthew 22:18

"He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." - Mark 7:6

"The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water?" - Luke 13:15

We are all hypocrites, just in different situations and at varying degrees. Who then is our teacher?

"Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ." - Matthew 23:10

Since man is prone to sinfulness, does that mean we should not go to church?

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." - Matthew 16:18

"Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed." - Proverbs 15:22

"God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful." - 1 Cornithians 1:9

Are believers to ignore their call?

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I agree with you that people must make the choice to be good or evil in their thoughts and actions.

I also feel people must take responsibility for their actions, even if those actions are encouraged by others.

Surely.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Everyone must think to themselves, is killing/other things others right, even if proposed by religious leader, if it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill.

Agreed.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
This brings up another sticky question, what about self/family/country defences????

If a man/woman have a explosives belt on and heading towards your wife/family, is it ok to kill him to save your family???

No. Why would God want me to go against his own command? Do I not trust God to intervene when He needs to intervene? Or is it that God 'isn't looking' at the moment when all of this is going on? He sees, He knows, He still gave the command, He'll act if necessary. Is killing the only resolution to a problem?

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Is killing, killing, or is this a more gray issue VS black and white???

Killing is killing.

reply to post by saint4God


i have to disagree with you.
let us postulate for a second that your deity does exist as outlined by the bible...

i don't think racist, misogynistic, commanders of genocide get to have a say in what's good...
sure they can say "evil? well, that's me!"

anyone that's jealous and proud of it.... also, no say.

seems like your deity is a bit of a hypocrite, which is ironic since an aspect of your deity specifically condemned hypocricy.

madnessinyoursoul,

I'm a descendent of the people God ordered the Jews to exterminate in the Old Testament. I'm a Canaanite.

Was he righteous in doing so? Absolutely.

The problem you have is your self-righteousness. You think your righteousness exceeds God's.

Now here's why he ordered their extermination.

Leviticus 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; )

Leviticus 20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

What were those abominations?

They're listed:

A) Sacrificing crying infants to devils by chucking them into burning brass statues

(how would you feel if someone did that to your child, buddy?)

B) Incest

C) Adultery

(how would you feel if someone slept with or raped your wife)

D) Bestiality

These things among others they committed for years as open social practices!

They were about 7-10 ethnicities, not entire races, residing in modern Israel and Lebanon and numbering in the thousands.

It was a one-time event ordered by God Almighty who had given them years to repent.

If you had read the Bible, you'd also realize that God warned the Jews they'd suffer hell on earth if they adopted the pagan gods of my ancestors and their practices. Sure enough they did, and sure enough, on the ball with Bible prophecy, they suffered these things.
The God of the Bible, unlike other gods of other religions, is no respecter of persons.

Now if you're an incestual adulterer who would sacrifice his children to the fire if society deemed it acceptable in order to make more income, and you lust lying with beasts, I can understand why you'd have a problem with the God of the Bible.

Funny how dealing with the Bible directly and not some self-righteous sinners on some internet site makes for a totally different experience doesn't it?

And Dragon,

the Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God of the Old Testament in the flesh.
The problem with peoples' evil heart is that they want God's love without his justice.
You can't have that. He is equally just and retributive against sin as he is loving toward us.
The only reason you don't feel his wrath now is because when he bore the sins of mankind in his body on the cross, he bought mankind some reprieve. This is the time to repent and believe on the Son of God.
Otherwise there's going to be hellfire to pay. And soon.

Jwater88,

I'm still waiting for your answer over here




[edit on 12-9-2007 by Isaiah 24:21]

[edit on 12-9-2007 by Isaiah 24:21]

[edit on 12-9-2007 by Isaiah 24:21]

[edit on 12-9-2007 by Isaiah 24:21]

The topic of discussion in this thread makes me think about the Yin Yang symbol. After contemplating Good and Evil a great deal. observing them. Participating and or experiencing them. My conclusions bring me to the concepts of the Yin-Yang, in that good and evil are relative and even the greater good contains some bad and vice versa.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I suppose we really need to first start with WHO is qualified to decide what is good or evil.

Are you? Am I?

We are all qualified to decide what is good or bad. Its how YOU feel about something that counts not anyone else. E.g some people think tobacco is evil (THE EVIL WEED) while others dont care. Good and bad are subjective, although you will get people trying to decide things for you, its your decision that matters.


G