Plane Carrying Aviation Adventurer Steve Fossett Missing

reply to post by Icarus Rising



Word is he went down in or Near 51. Funny that. I wonder if a low flying small aircraft (he was searching for possible salt flat sites for a rocket car record attempt) might have been construed as a security thread by trigger happy Sec forces and dealt with accordingly?

reply to post by johnlear


Several years ago (the actual number withheld to protect my vanity!) the Noble team ran a land-based attempt at the sound barrier on the dry lake bed just north of Gerlach, NV near Black Rock.

Black Rock is now more well known for the annual "Burning Man" festival (which just ended this last weekend).

I believe it was the Thrust SSC that made the attempt.

I don't know if the playa would be within the range of Mr. Fosset's plane, or if he might have flown up there intending to make a pit stop in Reno on the way back, maybe?

Radio reception can be a bit spotty sometimes up there; lots of signal blocking mountains around the perimeter of the playa.

Keep the faith.


Edit: Actually, I know some folks that have been involved with radio search an recovery operations in that area (Black Rock, NV) for some time. Finding downed weather balloons and such.



[edit on 5-9-2007 by Bhadhidar]

Ok, this is the bit I don't get. We've had a recent thread marvelling at the dawn of the 13 gigapixel camera, we have GPS, drones.. all these technologies that are supposedly at the disposal of the authorities. We are supposed to be spied on via satellite to the point where every inch of the earth can be viewed at relatively close range. We live in the age of Google Earth. So how come we see none of this tech deployed, for the sake of saving a life? Do the powers that be actually have access to this kind of tech after all? Or is it all part of our paranoia?

Originally posted by Sky watcher
He may have got into trouble and had to land at Groom lake for a emergency landing. He may have saw something and they are now debriefing him to make sure he does not talk or he is now playing with their cool toys. I'm sure they would have let him land if there was not another option. I hope he is OK, He did the Ironman so if he gets enough water he can walk out.

What an interesting point.

Dose any one know what the procedure would be if an aircraft was in danger and had to make an emergency landing while in the vicinity of Groom Lake. Would they be permitted to land at Groom Lake?

Mr Lear do you have any details on this or know of someone who may have been in this situation before?

Wouldnt Groom Lake have advanced radar which could locate his last know position?


[edit on 5-9-2007 by eddiemaiden_80]

in an emergency, rules are allowed to be broken...air space is allowed to be broken.....but in order to get to the area 51 runway....with a small aircraft he'd haft to already be in the area to land......if he breaks the area, he'd be escorted out....

Of course they would have allowed him to land, restricted airspace or not. If they had anything they didn't want any seeing then it would be underground or in warehouses, not in sight of the runway.

Given that, I think it's fairly obvious he didn't land at at any military site. If he crashed, the ELT would have gone off, so it also seems highly unlikely that his plane went down.

I think our best guess is that he's made an emergency landing somewhere or he did indeed crash, but into something soft, such as trees. I don't know if that would set it off or not, but it seems like it wouldn't.

Him being shot down seems highly unlikely because there would no point in doing so, a light aircraft would hold no threat against a military base bristling with high tech weaponry.

At any rate, I hope that he's alright and that we'll be hearing from him, or his rescuers soon.

I heard on the news this morning that he has a homing beacon on his watch, but he has to activate it, which until now he hasn't done yet.

This is a great mystery with so many possibilities.

Peace

Originally posted by JimmyBlonde

Word is he went down in or Near 51. Funny that. I wonder if a low flying small aircraft (he was searching for possible salt flat sites for a rocket car record attempt) might have been construed as a security thread by trigger happy Sec forces and dealt with accordingly?

Unlikely in the extreme. Steve would have been flying no where near Area 51. Nor would Area 51 security forces been trigger happy.

Originally posted by RiotComing

Ok, this is the bit I don't get. We've had a recent thread marvelling at the dawn of the 13 gigapixel camera, we have GPS, drones.. all these technologies that are supposedly at the disposal of the authorities. We are supposed to be spied on via satellite to the point where every inch of the earth can be viewed at relatively close range. We live in the age of Google Earth. So how come we see none of this tech deployed, for the sake of saving a life?

It would be unlikely that if this technology existed that it would be used to save one life. Technology is to spy on people not save them.

Do the powers that be actually have access to this kind of tech after all?

Probably infinitely more than you can imagine.

Or is it all part of our paranoia?

Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're not being spyed on.

Originally posted by eddiemaiden_80

Dose any one know what the procedure would be if an aircraft was in danger and had to make an emergency landing while in the vicinity of Groom Lake. Would they be permitted to land at Groom Lake?

As you approach the restricted area you are circled by Beech 1900 security planes. If you get to the border of the area they attempt to contact you by radio which uses every possible frequency at the same time.

If you show intent to continue in spite of the warning the measures intantly become more severe.

Mr Lear do you have any details on this or know of someone who may have been in this situation before?

I have known several Air Force pilots that landed in an emergency without authorization. One of them (in an F-105) was debriefed and reprimanded. One was drummed out of the corps. One or two civlians pilots have landed there, years ago, debriefed, refueled and sent on their way. One private pilot was allegedly shot down and the plane is still there, I think. It was there 20 years ago and I don't know whether or not it has been moved. I do not know the circumstances under which it was shot down or if the story was really true.

Wouldnt Groom Lake have advanced radar which could locate his last know position?

40 years ago they had a video cam at Groom Lake that could track an airplane and look through the windows into the cockpit and and passenger cabin. I can only imagine what they have now.

Whatever they have it is unlikely that they would use it to help find Steve Fossett.

Area 51, in my opinion, is now used for low level secret projects and a place to take Congressmen and Senators on a fantasy show and tell. The real secret areas include Sandia, Ely, extreme northest Nevada and Utah.

Just trying to help. Used to fly alot so sympathetic to plight of Fosset.

My theory.

He was looking for suitable dry lake beds so focusing the search around those makes since to me. There can't be that many suitable sites as a land speed record would require a long clean bed, maybe ten miles, more or less. I used Google maps to view several in the area of his departure and I suspect he probably already had the best ones circled on his map.

ELT-assuming it wasn't destroyed in a crash, and, from what I know of them, it shouldn't have been, then either it malfunctioned or it is in a place that isn't allowing it's signal to escape.

Under a rock or other type overhanging structure or
inside an old mine shaft.

That area is riddled with abandoned mines. People walking through the desert and simply drop right into one. It happens all the time. Not sure if any are large enough to swallow a taxiing airplane, but if so, then that might account for the lack of signal. There are over 100,000 abandoned mines in Utah, if I remember the numbers correctly. I suspect Nevada has very significant numbers also. Maybe not probable, but certainly not out of the question. Another possibility is that he landed, got out to look around, and fell into one. There's one good looking lake bed NE of Walker lake that looked suitable for a LSR attempt that was what appeared to be the result of a strip mining operation.

If I was going to check a dry lake bed for suitability, I would land on it and taxi around to inspect it's features. One big patch of sagebrush can cover a big hole in the ground. Thousands of people have found that out the hard way.

Just trying to help. If anyone, such as the former pilot, knows someone they could bounce this off of, you might try. It's unlikely, but so is a no signal situation in an ELT. I would focus on suitable dry lake beds and the mines and mountains around them. He could have also ground looped the Citabria (Decathalon) and started walking for help. Landing a tail dragger in mountain winds is tricky. I've got aerobatics certification in a Decathalon and, like any tail dragger, they're hard to land anyway unless you have alot of time in them.

reply to post by JacKatMtn


He was the first to do a solo trip around the world in a balloon.
Last time I checked he held the distance record for a glider aircraft.
He and Virgin are the first to do a non stop around the world Airplane Flight.
He and his crew hold the speed record for sailing the Columbus Route (9 1/2 days, shaving of an entire day from the previous record)

And theres much more this guy did and planned to do.

Hes got the skills, knowhow and balls to do just about anything.

You can't travel 1250 miles in a 2 person glider aircraft or around the world, totally alone in a balloon, without both technical and exceptional piloting skills.

reply to post by timothyfryer


I've been hanging around this site for years now, but I never fail to be impressed that there are so many people who have expertise in so many fields. They show up here and freely pass some of their experiences on to us. It really means a lot.

It still gets me excited that I can "talk" with folks like you, Mr. Lear, etc.

Thanks for your post!

You too John, you excel in helping us understand this area, and we appreciate the input in this field, especially with a life on the line.

Steve Fossett hang in there. We are thinking of you.

Now back to my normal grumpy self

Does anyone have a picture of the plane? Yesterday morning I seen a blue and white plane heading north. It was flying fairly low so I assumed it was going to land at the small Calvada airport in Pahrump. It did not. It continued flying north. The plane looked shiny and new, unlike what you usually see around here. It didn't appear to be having any problems. It just caught my attention because it was a really pretty plane.

I'm using an older photo when there was a fire in the valley just to show you the general location. The blue and white plane I seen was flying to the right of the highlines heading north. If he continue on that path he would be heading right towards Area 51.

You can see the N-Tap above that the FAA would have to locate the plane

if he called into the FAA like JFK JR did to get the above 3D plot.

Always be a careful pilot like JFK JR was.

reply to post by MountainStar


Not trying to hog the thread, but I did happen across the tail number, and some photos.

Aircraft N240R Photo 2007-06-01

Another view

Wiki Steve Fossett

According to CNN News, the search for Fossett began about six hours later (from time of take-off). He was flying in a single-engine, Citabria Super Decathlon — a plane capable of aerobatics — with tail number N240R

I also noticed that some of the Civil Air Patrol who are helping to look for him, were also flying single engine, blue and white patterns though.

John

According to George Knapp there's a huge new building at Area 51 now. I think he mentioned it when you were on coast. Not sure tho, it could have been on his first show, as a host on coast to coast.

It sure resembled that plane remakeitso! It probably was the Civil Air Patrol who were looking for Mr. Fossett. Would their planes be capable of aerobatics, like this one?

Probably capable, but not advisable. Pretty sure they are cessna's. Doubt the CAV would do any while on a search.

John would know for sure if they are able to.

Here is a pic of one of the Civil Air Patrol. I dont think they are all the same though.

Here is a pic of the new hangar.

Here is a sat image of the hanger. Bottom center.



[edit on 9/6/07 by makeitso]

I don't know but I've got a bad feeling about this one, my friends. I hope they find him alive. I truly do, but something tells me he may have gone down in a bad crash, not just trouble with the plane that he was able to glide in for a safe landing. I hope I'm wrong. I hate to see anyone go through something like this. Shaman