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Home Owner Stockpiles Ammo: ATF Raids. NWO - Project Disarm

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posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by Blackmaster
 


well heres the thing. buying illegal guns can go badly for you not just with the law but lets face it, anyone selling illegal guns may not be the safest people to deal with.

NOW having said that...say slackerwire there wants to sell me a gun. i go to his place, i pay him, he gives me gun, i leave. done. no paperwork, no waiting period, and as long as im over 18 for a rifle or shotty and over 21 for a handgun, no laws are broken.

now, say the MIB's come to slackerwires door to take his guns. what happens if he sold them? or better yet....what happens if he "sold" them

cuz i have literally bought guns from guys i didnt know their names, just replying to an ad in the classifieds of the newspapers. (can you still list guns in classifieds? i havnt raed a newspaper in years and its been years since i did this, but hey...i got a mac 10 outta the classifieds
)

so yeah, if you "sold" yer guns to people you randomly met, how are they going to confiscate them?

thanks for being my example slackerwire




posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 06:59 AM
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posted on 9/8/07 at 06:57


As I spend another uneventful armed night on duty "thankful its uneventful", and I see that this has turned into another "GUN DEBATE" and I don't think that was point of this thread.

Clearly there are three sides here "PRO GUN, ANTI GUN & SUPER HUMAN NINJA/ JEDI MAN who has too much time on his hands to re quote everything with a sarcastic tone and out of context.

The NWO seeking ammo and guns is just the beginning! Next it will be food, water, and any other survival supplies, including Japanese swords and light sabers. 18,000 rounds of ammo or 18,000 can of soup, both contain metal, both can explode and cause injury, both can be used as weapons.

QUICK HIDE THE SOUP THE ATF IS COMING ('
')

Ninja and Jedi are not the only ones that know how to use cans of soup as weapons



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


You should not be so concerned about privatly owned firearms, cars kill FAR more people than guns do each year. Note that most of the drivers of these cars do not "NEED" to be going anywhere.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 12:05 AM
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This article is very brief. It would be nice if there were more details.

After Hurricane Katrina hit and the local economy collapsed, a few individuals thought it neccessary to protect their property with weapons because of the lack of protection/service they thought they were getting from the government sector to help them defend their personal property/supplies from desperate fellow citizens.

On one level, when some are faced with living in a collapsed economy they pull together, helping one another out. This is of course ideal. On another level, some facing the same scenario resort to desperate and violent tactics to get what they feel they need.

For the most part, I think it would be safe to say Americans come together when faced with any kind of large scale disaster. It's usually only a few rouges that resort to extreme measures. Shooting a gun in the air to ward a rouge off would likely work; way more than madly shaking a stick around.

During or shortly after a major disaster, when armed authority is not available to step in, citizens possessing weapons to protect personal property, food, clean water and medical supplies from rouge people who plan to violently take rather than ask, is not a dilusional thought/action.

One thinking that an economy could possibly collapse is not a dilusional thought in light of Hurricane Katrina.

Having an individual issue a restraining order on their partner is extreme, in that it is an extreme measure for someone to take against another. The party having taken out the restraining order could be dilusional as well as the one being restrained.

Having said that, there are likely other factors that had come into play, compiled with the restraining order, (which the article is not mentioning due to an on-going investigation,) that led to health investigators to label the man suffering from delusions with persecutory tendencies. Who knows what the girlfriend has told the authorities and what has turned up against this man over the course of the investigation.

Based on the article's face - it doesn't seem like this man has been given a fair shake, but I believe there is more to the story.

BTW, I can't seem to find the spell check button... what am I missing?



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 01:26 AM
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www.atf.gov...

Here is the BATF / Dept. of Justice Press Release on Project Disarm

Below - USDOJ
SUMMARY OF DISTRICT GUN VIOLENCE REDUCTION STRATEGIES
www.usdoj.gov...

Be Prepared for a Visit from a Federal Agency Near You!

[edit on 9-9-2007 by spirithorse007]



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


Why would he need guns and ammo? How is it anyone else's business how he exercises his Constitutional Rights? He can buy a zillion of them, none of YOUR business.

You're not an American, I take it? Or you just don't like the US Constitution?



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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wow. people have really taken this to heart. still, some of you keep bringing up the constitution. that gets old, no one is living today and following it word by word. It's not the bible. You have the right to defend yourself, that's fine. keep one handgun under your bed if you are afraid.


I don't see what's so wrong with checking up on a guy who's stackin' his garage with ammo. It sounds like he was ready to plan an attack, and there's nothing wrong with questioning him. I don't see any wrong doings there..

I don't own a gun and never will.

and I'd like to see more statistics please, you said cars kill more than guns. rubbish, last year the leading cause of death was murder..murder with the use of a gun.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by jedimiller


and I'd like to see more statistics please, you said cars kill more than guns. rubbish, last year the leading cause of death was murder..murder with the use of a gun.


In 2004 ( nearest year ) Unintentional Firearm Deaths were 649.
Adverse effects - Medical care Deaths, 2,513.
Overall Motor Vehicle Deaths, 45,113.
MV Traffic, Motorcyclist Deaths, 3,940.

My source? CDC.

Roper



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 08:36 AM
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www.ojp.usdoj.gov...


The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
wow. people have really taken this to heart. still, some of you keep bringing up the constitution. that gets old, no one is living today and following it word by word. It's not the bible. You have the right to defend yourself, that's fine. keep one handgun under your bed if you are afraid.


This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on this board. It's actually somewhat frightening that people like you get the same vote I do. But, in your opinion, I guess we can get rid of that whole right to vote thing too correct? Do away with the 1st amendment as well? Afterall, you claim no one is following it, so why don't we just trash your right to due process and incarcerate you for the rest of your life simply for being a moron?



I don't own a gun and never will.


People who have an irrational fear of an inanimate object often suffer from other mental disorders. You may want to get checked out.


and I'd like to see more statistics please, you said cars kill more than guns. rubbish, last year the leading cause of death was murder..murder with the use of a gun.


Obviously you haven't done any research on this whatsoever.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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What is planned for all the ammunition that was seized? Is the man in question able to purchase more (legally)? Is it illegal to purchase guns and/or ammo if you have a restraining order against you? Could your home be seized also since the guns and bullets are stock piled there?
How many bullets constitutes "stock piling"?
Sounds like the ex girlfriend may have some vindictive agenda.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me when people argue for disarming us. Man, don't you realize that the cops are not always going to come running at your beck and call? Do you have a family? Do you have any sense of responsibility whatsoever for their well being and safety? Do you have any sense of the violent reality we all live in?

Because I didn't grow up in goody two shoes land where everything is rosy and cheerful. I grew up in a place where if you didn't fight to keep what you have then someone would come along and violently take what you have.

First I learned to use my fists, then sticks and bats, and finally when I realized it really doesn't matter a whit how "tough" anybody is, because they can simply shoot you and be done with it. They don't have to beat you up.

The thing about disarming the people is this: The only people with registered firearms are the ones that are the law abiding citizens who are workin 60 hrs a week and just trying to get by. Do you think those gang bangers tek 9's and Uzi's are registered in their own names? Nope, I don't think so. So how is the goverment going to go confiscate them? How is it going to know where they are? It doesn't, and it won't.

The statement that if society collapses and the law fails us the people who have guns should distribute them for the rest of the people to use is just plain ignorant, and yes I meant this with a certain note of disrespect.

IF society collapses and people are looting and pillaging in my neighborhood, you would be the first person knocking on my door saying "Coop! I need one of your guns! My daughter is getting raped right now!"

You know what I am gonna say? "Damn bro, you better go get a stick or ball bat and scare em off. Good luck with all that"

Naaaah, I'd go down there and shoot em for ya, cuz that's just the kinda guy I am



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Here is the BATF / Dept. of Justice Press Release on Project Disarm


Everything in that link speaks of ILLEGAL gun ownership and taking the guns from criminals....how is this a bad thing?

I didnt read every page of this thread but with all the back and fourth.....did anyone mention that he also had large amounts of fuel and fertilizer along with his 18,000 rounds?

Bottom line is the restraining order. Yes, they can be used to screw someone over who has done nothing wrong yet the small percentage of those cases pale in comparison to the valid domestic restraining and no-contact orders that have saved countless lives.

Does the system need tweaking? Sure it does but dont let a few jerks who are trying to screw over an ex-boyfriend ruin it for the mother of 4 who had her jaw broken by a sadistic husband who, if he could, would come back to finish the job.

If the order is bogus, guess what....you get your guns and ammo back!

All to often we hear of crimes and people saying "why didnt they do something before it came to this" well, the restraining order is one tool used for just that purpose. It serves a purpose and has tremendous value especially within the realm of domestic violence.

So this guy had a domestic order against him...he loses his ammo. Why was the ATF involved in enforcing what normally would be a simple RO? Most likely because, as the story said, they were tipped that this guy had huge amounts and fuel and fertilizer....which falls under their jurisdicition.



[edit on 9-9-2007 by SwatMedic]



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by SwatMedic
 

Your statement that restraining orders save lives is an outright lie. No piece of paper ever saved a life. I was a police officer, the majority of restaining orders are by women who want vengance on a man END OF STORY.

Every restraining order is a direct violation of due process rights, EVERY ONE! No convictions, just orders, they are 'lawful' but they are not 'LEGAL'.

I would bet Mr. SWATMEDIC you do not even know the differance between those words, do you? A person bent on murder will never be stop by some black dress wearing judge signing a piece of paper, murderers do not care.

BTW, the Government Constitution, Bill of Rights et all DO NOT give us rights, they were given to us by God, and they cannot be taken away accept by due process. Find out what that is before any of you go saying "Oh, its scary when someone has xxxxx, we have a right to find out why! Oh, and to take their liberty and property while we find out." Utter nonsense.

Pathetic sheep, the showers are waiting, "You will walk quietly into the de-lousing chamber, we have a right to protect others from your disease.".

Remember history or live it again.



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
I'm new here. So I don't know where I'm supposed to stand.

new? you have been here over a year.
now if mr. horn didn't have a shotgun, how would he have defended his neihgbor's property and shot those two latino kids?

we need guns and ammo for self protection.



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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on another note, hypothetical question...
if i were to buy a bunch of ammo and weapons and stashed them and the next day reported them stolen to the police. how would they take them from me?



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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He was served with a restraining order. He violated the restraining order. He lived in a residential neighborhood with barrels of fuel and fertilizer.

The ammunition was incidental, and he would have kept it all if he didn't violate the restraining order. Plain and simple violating the order is and of itself an act of aggression towards an individual.


The fertilizer and fuel would be just fine on a farm. Not in the burbs though, and they should be watching things like that. He was clearly outside the zoning use for that property.

I just don't have a problem with this one. They did right.



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Well, I doubt the federal government has the manpower to do this on a massive scale. Look what happened when the ATF tried this with a bunch of whacked out "Christians" in Waco. If this continues, you will see a militia movement that will make the 90's look like a boy scout meeting. They are coming.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 



Because YOU have no right to deny constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms from other, law-abiding citizens. Who died and made you king? Next I suppose you will want to tell others what they can and can't say, read, and do in their free time? Sounds like you have a BIG ego problem, buddy! Wars have been fought because of people like you. Read your history, study human sociology and psychology, and above all, wake up from the liberal-induced coma you are in!!





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