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Originally posted by slackerwire
If you don't believe the USG is out to grab your guns, then statements by popular senators such as Dianne Feinstein saying "If i had enough votes, I would vote to ban them all" mean what to you?
Really? A good friend of mine was arrested and charged with domestic violence because he and his brother got into a little fight and his brother ended up with a bloody nose. It cost a considerable amount of money in lawyer fees to get the domestic violence charge dropped, which meant he could continue being employed in the firearm industry.
Is he really deranged for giving his brother a bloody nose?
Since when does the ATF enforce temporary restraining orders? The government cannot just randomly "check out" a few guns a private individual owns
Rational laws....registration, licenses, and psych evals? Are you effing kidding?
Rational in the minds of those who wish to control others. Rational in the minds of a free people? Absolutely not.
Would you be willing to get a license and undergo a mental evaluation before being "allowed" to attend the church of your choice, or before you are "allowed" to purchase a certain book?
Originally posted by Damocles
the US military wont come and go door to door. i was in the army 12 years i think i have a pretty good feel for that one. even IF the 2nd amendment was abolished i can honestly say i dont believe it will happen. (remember many many many members of the military like THEIR guns also)
if not the army/marines then who? the cops? yeah....right...they may have caught people off guard after katrina...anyone think they could get away with it in every city in the US and NOT have a stack of dead bodies? or get even a large fraction of the guns?
Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Those in the military who believe that theyre orders are in the best interest of the nation would do it. Plus, as long as they stay in the military or law enforcement they get to keep THEIR guns.
The most likely scenerio, though IMO, would be a private organization like Blackwater or even a foreign military like UN peacekeepers who would have no particular connection to America, it's citizens or their rights.
Originally posted by Damocles
an extreme case. but is the law bad for being misused by an overzealous prosecutor?
next day he comes back and half hour later his gf, their 2 kids and him are all dead. now...wouldnt it have probably been a good idea to take his gun away one of the first times they got called over? or at the very least the night he's screaming how he's going to kill her?
ok i have to ask...yer kidding right? you equate needing to pass a proficience test, a psych eval, getting a license to own a gun or registration equal to that of going to church or buying a book?
jesus, whats your views on having to pass a test to drive then getting a license and having to register your car? not so afraid they're going to take yer car? man, you could kill lots of people with a car if you timed it right...
the US military wont come and go door to door. i was in the army 12 years i think i have a pretty good feel for that one. even IF the 2nd amendment was abolished i can honestly say i dont believe it will happen. (remember many many many members of the military like THEIR guns also)
even if the "called for the citizens" to turn them in with amnesty periods etc...anyone really think they'd get even 15% of the guns out there?
i really dont. and in light of that i stand by what i said i was ok with in my last post.
so, in retrospect...do we REALLY have it that bad here as gun owners? sure, could be worse, but isnt that why we still hold on to at least the pretense of elections? how about instead of organizing our militias to take back DC we try to just start electing people who represent OUR values for a change?
and lets face it, the NRA may be considered extreme even when measured with the yardstick of ATS...but it takes an extreme lobbying position to counter the extreme position of the "all guns are evil" crowd. dont want to vote? then support the NRA, they speak loud enough to at least maintain the balance.
Originally posted by slackerwire
IMO, the domestic violence charge is used a little too often.
If he wanted to kill them, the method by which he did so wouldn't have mattered. Take away his gun and he will use a knife/bat/bare hands.
More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other reason. Why wouldn't a psych eval be needed to be sure worshippers are sane enough not to go declaring jihad on everyone, or from starting their own personal crusade?
Why require a psych eval (given by government doctors I presume?) for one protected right and not others?
not one, but how many cry about their "right to drive"? but i just personally dont see much difference between getting a drivers license and passing a firearms safety and proficiency test. i see little difference between registering my car and my pistol. i mean hell, i could use my car to escape to mexico when the NWO takes over cant i? if 12 million mexicans can come north im sure one whiteboy could go south no? or i hear parts of canada are real nice...
Which Constitutional Amendment protects the right to drive a car?
I agree, but private contractors are an entirely different story.
I would venture to guess more than 15% would easily turn their guns in. Most americans have turned into sheep and will take a big bite out of whatever dog crap sandwich government decides to feed them.
No disrespect intended, but that is a very naive point of view. The election system today is so screwed up, only the candidates "chosen" by big business and big media have the opportunity to get elected.
Please do some research into the history of the NRA, you will find they have been one of the biggest gun CONTROL groups in the nation.
Originally posted by slackerwire
but can you not also agree that MAYBE its a bad idea for people with a predisposition to violence to own a gun?
see, thats all im advocating. people with a HISTORY of violent behavior probably shouldnt be allowed to own a gun
lol wow, that was actually quite brilliant and im sure im not the only one reading this saying to themselves "never quite thought of it that way..." but its an excellent point. though were i to actually argue the point id say that shooting someone in a rage is probably a little easier and a lot more common than starting a crusade these days. i could of course be wrong.
not one, but how many cry about their "right to drive"?
For privacy reasons, I register my vehicles in the names of LLC's, they have no link to me whatsoever. Technically, those are off the books
and i could use my car to smuggle supplies to the militia so if its bad to register my guns shouldnt i try to have a car or two off the books?
like i said in another post. that works both ways...private contractors are also a psychologically more acceptable target to many people as well. i would have issues firing on a soldier or a cop but some joe shows up to take my guns may have a problem.
but if even 90% turn theirs in thats still around 10 million gun owners out there who are probably pretty unhappy by this time...10 million is enough to give any army in the world pause unless they are going to just start indiscriminatly bombing our cities to get us 10 million gun owners (and yes, if its private contractors or UN peace keepers ill likely be right there with you...walking stick and all. guess ill have to practice shooting left handed again)
but i agree the election system IS screwed up. but, is that business's fault or ours? i think its your fault. i think its my fault i think its my dads fault. WE allowed it to happen and WE arent doing enough to change it. i know im not, like many others ill sit and bitch about it and rant about it on here and not out trying to do anything about it. i can own up to that.
but i digress...
if i thoguht for one second i could start a more successful pro gun organization and lobby in washington i would. though i doubt id have many supporters cuz it would appear that even other 2nd amendment supporters disagree wtih me on certain points
Originally posted by rhombus24
No Im sure that you go shooting or something but the man had so many guns in his house that you have to wonder. Also the ATF didn't find out by tele kinesis or whatever but somebody tipped them off.
Somebody tipped them off for good reason he maybe bought just the right combination of chemicals from a warehouse to get them to tip off the ATF and FBI.
Think outside of the box he was probably gonna use them for something bad.