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Are We Done With Betty & Barney Hill?

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posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me that more data about this case keeps coming forward.

I remember as a kid reading about it when it first appeared in the magazines.

Now 40 years later a newer book comes out.

Anyone really up on this story and can tell if this is finally it on it?

I'm trying to put it away filed under what it is but it just keeps on keeping on.




posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Well if we could tell you 'thats it' we would know more about it than anyone, nice try tho lol dont worry about it, lifes too short. Pay your bills, get a girlfriend, troll some forums--whatever



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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heck No .... the 'story' is a gold mine

along with 'Roswell'


Betty & Barney, has all the elements necessary to enthrall the audience(s),
now don't hold me to the 'race card' issue.... but That Is a bonus item
for continuing the drama- aka 'story'


i'm glad they capitalized on it...more power to 'em !



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 08:27 PM
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This is one of the first abduction cases in a public view. Great story line of a flying object, people taken, a gift offered, missing time, then memories brought back by hypnosis.

Back in the 70's, a serious look was done with this one particular case and some interesting stuff came out.

But first, a little trip down memory lane. There were a couple of sci-fi shows that were very popular back in the late 50's and the very early 60's. The first and foremost was the Twilight Zone. Then there was the Outer Limits. The Outer Limits was not touchy feel good, like the newer one is. It was downright scary on some episodes.

A web site that would explain what I want to say about this, but in more detail is found here:

www.csicop.org...

Basically, Barney and Betty had something happen. Whether it was an alien abduction or not is the very basic question. It just happens to parallel a TV episode of a show that had fairly high ratings. The time frame is highly coincidental and the details of the Hill's encounter are right out of the show.

I'm neutral in this particular case, but I find many things appealing on both sides. I've kicked the entire UFO industry around in my mind for years trying to figure some of it out.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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Hinky, good point.

The Outer Limits episode and the syndrome your pointing to have been shot down.

To have people dramatize a tv show is fine, but it would need to be a common one and not isolated. Abduction stories were around all over the world it's just the Hills had an opportunity to expose their story to a larger audience.

The government headshrinkers would love to tack that on the Hills but if that works in that case then every other tv show episode would have to have been dramatized as well.

Too many holes there.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:04 AM
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This topic was so thoroughly examined by Gazrok in a stickied post (including a rebuttal of a would-be 'debunker' that sent the poor child crying to her mommy, never again to show their face in the thread) that you'd be an idiot to consider it anything but an extraterrestrial abduction.

Betty & Barney Hill were taken into a spacecraft, harmlessly experimented on, and put back with their car a couple of hours later. And that's more or less undisputably, well, it.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by GrinningMoon]



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:42 AM
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I don't think any new information will be coming out on this abduction. It's been dissected over and over, and very well documented.

Now that both parties concerned are dead, Barney in 1969, and Betty in 2004, I can't see any new information becoming available.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:47 AM
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What about the back-story?

Barney was already having emotional problems prior to the journey to NH.

Instead of 'arguing by intimidation' or by 'appeal to authority' why not actually explain it in your own words? I don't mean write a book. Just give us the three or four high spots that prove it was an abuduction by a non-terrestrial group of visitors?

This kind of post, imo, actually promotes ignorance, by hiding behind status quo, don't you think?

I mean c'mon 'don't debate this or we'll make you cry'. That's a hoot.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 09:34 AM
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Did anyone read the newest book by Betty's niece and Stan Friedman?

I heard on good ol' George Noory's show as well as Jeff Rense's that more data I didn't know was revealed.

That's why I brought up the thread.

As for Barney having emotional problems prior to the event is meaningless. Everyone has emotional problems. Considering he was a black man living in New England during the turbulent 50's and 60's, heck I'm having emotional problems just imagining what emotional problems Barney might have had.

If emotional problems were a pre-requisite for alien abductions, then everbody and their third cousin would be banging on Budd Hopkins' door.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 01:50 PM
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I have always found the story compelling..since it was the first documented case and they really kicked off the 'grey's or cat-eye alien look..how is it treated by other psychologists then..that they both have the same story & experience was it polluted by them talking to each other (as a skeptic might claim?)
Also some of the references they use in the audio when talking about objects in the alien ship- the needle with the wire attached..or the 'book' she asked to keep..isn't that a bit too earthly..or was it so bizarre to her that she could only relate to earth like objects in her mental vocab?



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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What was the prognosis regarding the star map they were shownwhilst on board the ailen ship? Never did get to find out about that.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:05 PM
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I think Linda Howe did something about it..but I wonder how accurate it was compared to what we know today?


Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
What was the prognosis regarding the star map they were shownwhilst on board the ailen ship? Never did get to find out about that.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:32 PM
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Whatever the case may be, it goes without saying that this couple was singled out because they were an inter-racial couple - something quite rare, especially in New England in the 1960's.

If covert gov't was somehow involved, and in my view they most definitely were, the fact that they would even try out this bizarre experiment (in cahoots with ET's?? seems like it) on human beings leaves no doubt in my mind that these same types of individuals (totally unethical) would be the types who would also get their jollies by trying it out on an inter-racial couple just for the sheer hell of it.

And in addition to this -- Barney Hill was rather well-known throughout the state of NH due to his position in that States' NAACP. The early sixties were turbulent years in our nations' social history and I would not be surprised at all if there was some covert agency who spied on and followed all NAACP leaders, Barney included, because many of those leaders were branded troublemakers by our gov't at that time -- and just like Martin Luther King a few years later, we all know they (FBI in this case) followed him around everywhere!


[edit on 4-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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Check here for more info about the case:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for csicop's explanation, it's nothing more than supposition and logical fallacies. Their entire defense is based on a supposition, that conflicts with the testimony of the Hills, and their friends as to what they watched and didn't watch, as well as their demographics. I counter some of these issues in my thread. The argument that the Hills saw some bootleg Japanese language Sci-Fi flick is so absurd it should reveal their whole case as a poor attempt at an explanation.

As for the starmap, many people forget the main things that make it so compelling (and that includes believers and skeptics).

In and of itself, the position of the stars matching identifiable stars is amazing... However, there's much, much more to it than just that...

1) The stars are ones that aren't even visible in the Hill's native sky...they are only visible from the southern hemisphere.

2) Not only are stars identified, but their COLORS are identified. Betty's map shows that some stars are yellow, like our sun, and that the beings were travelling among them.

3) The path between these yellow stars, as depicted on Betty's map, has been confirmed by astronomers to be a logical path when considering distances, positions, etc.

4) The colors of some of these stars (and even some of the stars themselves) on Betty's map, weren't even known to astronomers of her time, and were confirmed later.

5) The odds of her drawing matching a random collection of stars were calculated as being "astronomical" (pardon the pun)....especially when considering the colors into the equation (which most skeptics dismiss, when saying it could match other star patterns).

For all of these reasons, the Hill case remains as probably even more significant than Roswell...as we have some hard evidence showing knowledge of something prior to those facts being confirmed by later science, and a compelling account of alien beings searching through yellow stars for other intelligent beings.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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If covert gov't was involved, and in my view they most definitely were, the fact that they would even try out this bizarre experiment on human beings leaves no doubt in my mind that these same types of individuals (totally unethical) would be the types who would also get their jollies by trying it out on an inter-racial couple just for the sheer hell of it.


Actually, there were some pretty high folks involved in investigating the case. The Hills reported the case to the military, and they followed up, and the psychologist who interviewed them was one of the preiminent military psychologists of his time.



This topic was so thoroughly examined by Gazrok in a stickied post (including a rebuttal of a would-be 'debunker' that sent the poor child crying to her mommy, never again to show their face in the thread) that you'd be an idiot to consider it anything but an extraterrestrial abduction.


While I appreciate the confidence in my debating skills, I (nor anyone else) should ever be considered as the final authority on anything. Topics are always up for debate, as is new information. It is certainly not my goal to intimidate, though sadly, it sometimes comes off that way...I'm just firm in my convictions once I've examined the evidence.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by Gazrok]



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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The fact that the military was so willing to investigate this case in and of itself smells fishy to me.

It's as if they were taking precautionary measures to go out of their way to help the Hills just in case they themselves would be targeted as the instigator's of this abduction. After all, this was the first abduction case ever reported, no one would be saying that this was an ET abduction because no one had ever even heard of anything like that before -- so most people would automatically assume that the military were the ones responsible for whatever happened that night to the Hills.

So what's interesting here is that the military psychiatrist put them under hypnosis and basically interpreted (or maybe even deleted information, who knows?) whatever they were describing where tentative conclusions reached were that they were abducted by aliens -- but of course we will never know if any kind of mind control techniques were used at that time by the psychiatrist assigned to them. Sure the doctor said that he himself does not really believe that that's what actually happened but he sure didn't go out of his way to prove otherwise, right?

But having said all of this, is this a case of covert gov't in cahoots with ET's kind of thing? -- it would seem like it... and I'm not ruling that out at all because there have since been too many other alien abduction cases which in my view supports that this is a very real phenomenon. There are also too many experiencer and contactee reports too that also support the alien hypothesis but I still think that covert gov't is involved in many of these cases -- the Hills included.


[edit on 4-9-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 04:41 AM
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Though I'm tired of anything rehashed re Roswell, Betty & Barney Hill's -- September 20- 1961 incident and the followup work done on the case by Dr Simon still fascinates me to this day.

Let's face it back in that time Black & White Married Couples did not want to draw attention to themselves in fear of extreme public scrutiny for that alone.
Adding the absurd story of aliens and a ship which "Interrupted (their) Journey" home that Sept eve following later regressive hypnosis sessions of Dr Simone added more fuel to the existing fire.

I'm convinced something happened to these people that was not of this world.
Betty's claimed physical examination by beings including a probe through her naval, which is now a common procedure to check the health of a woman's reproductive system or health of a growing fetus.

Barney Hill's chilling and emotional recall of the events that eve on their way home from Canada still makes the hair on my arms rise when I hear it.

The Hill case is the Obelisk and start of reported alien abduction phenomena which other cases have been measured against.
When ever I come across anything written new re the /61 Hill case, whether a review or some new theory I make time to read it.

Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org...

VisionAndPsychosis (The Hills):
www.visionandpsychosis.net...

Dallas



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 05:43 AM
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OK, guys, are you familiar with the concept of 'Fair Witness', as outlined by Heinlein in 'Stranger, in a Strange Land'?

When you investigate a case, especially a very compelling case that has been thoroughly documented, I think it's best to do at least -one- analytical thread where you take as a default position that there are no aliens; period; can't happen. IOW a non-paranormal tack.

This position may be just for the sake of argument; it's good to be able to debate both sides passionately.

I've found that doing this, however distasteful, can reveal things about the case even to the ardent believer in you.

What I'd suggest doing, if only for your own edification, is to make a chart and label one column 'Paranormal' and the other 'Prosaic'. On the X-axis, list all the important 'facts' of the case.

In a well-established case, if you're trying to really get a good look at it, tear down -all- your assumptions. Try to go back to the original evidence!

In the Hill case there are lots and lots of 'factoids' that involve 'interpretation', and we're taking the interpretation of the people that went before. So we're often seeing things through a lens, darkly.


Then do another outline where you list the top items of proof. In UFO cases, simultaneous radar traces are quite high (one of my favorite investigators only investigates those kinds of cases - with actual radar confirmations). But it's important to look into these radar cases, also. If possible talk to the actual radar technician. Sometimes, in the attempt to counter the idea that UFOs are nonsense, well-meaning investigators let things 'slide' into evidence which may be equivocal.

Though I'd agree that the 'Star Map' is important (as are several elements in the Hill case), it's not unassailable.

What you learn is deeper than 'was that a UFO'. You learn how to think carefully and critically.

After all isn't that the main purpose of ATS?

Proving it to someone else is kinda silly if you haven't leaned to see through the details, yourself. Learn to look at something completely clinically, and don't take someone else's interpretation without dissecting it as thoroughly as possible. Otherwise, you're helping to create a myth within the case.

The methods I mentioned above are only two of many.

In the end, it doesn't really matter if the Hill case is completely authentic (except in the broadest sense). It does matter that we learn how to examine things critically, without the lens of prejudice or predisposition. IOW, if you look at a case intending to find it true or false, both sides are making the same mistake.

For instance in the Hill case, it's frequently cited that it's accompanied by radar confirmation from Pease. In truth, here's what the actual commander said:


Betty called her sister Janet and told her about their experience. Janet urged her to report the UFO sighting to nearby Pease Air Force Base. Over Barney's objections, Betty called the base and gave a report to Major Paul W. Henderson of the 100th Bomb Wing. When asked to do so by the Major, Barney reluctantly gave his version of the sighting. Curiously, Pease AFB was the home of the 509th Bomb Wing in 1961, the same 509th Bomb Wing whose home had been Roswell AAFB at the time of the "Roswell Incident" in 1947. According to Jacques Vallee in Dimensions, the Hills' sighting was corroborated by a radar sighting at Pease AFB on 20 September 1961, but his reference for this is unclear. It's an excerpt from Report No. 100-1-61, that says simply:

...a strange incident occurred at 0214 local on 20 Sept. No importance was attached to the incident at the time.


One thing that's still not explained is Barney's mental state prior to the 'incident'. He had already reported being menaced in his dreams or subconscious by the 'staring man, looking down on him'.

Again, my take on it.


Here are two interesting sites, the second one a skeptic report.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Oh, yeah, here's a close up of the alien from Outer Limits



Whether they watched this show isn't clear, but it does show an illusion of wrap around eyes, if you look at still frames and such eyes had not been reported up to this point that I'm aware.



www.skepticreport.com...



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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The Betty & Barney Hill case is a landmark in the field of UFOlogy. Anyone who even vaguely looks into the subject will trip across this one pretty swiftly. As more and more folks enter and leave the scene it will be brought up time and time again.

Whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion. If you think that the whole subject of UFOs/Aliens has been suppressed by the government, that they might be hiding something from you, then the more people who are aware of documented cases the better. Despite the actual facts surrounding them, I think that in the grand scheme of things, something is without doubt being hidden... high strangeness in general or whatever.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is a good starting point in the subject just as the Roswell and Rendlesham Forest incidents are. It's something that can get people into the subject so they can draw their own conclusions instead of being told it's all a load of old cobblers and to stear clear of it in any case.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 08:55 AM
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Badge, great information about that Fair Witness process and for all of the details you provided for us on how to do that but I'm disappointed that you then posted that ufoevidence link of the Hills case for source information on this abduction to try this out on because that article is so short and sketchy, there's hardly any information there for us to work with.

Garzok's excellent overview of this case is much more detailed because it's based on several books that have been written about this sighting and abduction so I would suggest that we use his information instead.

Here's a link to Garzok's Hill Abduction thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



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