It seems likely that in the event of a crash or other disaster scenario paper bills and likely coins would immediately become useless for anything except burning. What I would like to do is purchase something that will not decrease in value whether there is a crash/disaster or not. I want to exchange paper bills for something that I will be able to use for barter if there is a crash, if there is not a crash I want to be able to then sell these items back into the market for the exact price I paid for them.


example: I buy 40 pieces of gold for 200 dollars.....there is a crash....I barter the gold away for food or other valuable goods.

example 2: I buy 40 pieces of gold for 200 dollars....there is not a crash....I sell the gold back into the market for 200 dollars, or more.

Can anyone think of such a commodity to buy?

In the coming economic disaster or situation X I just don't see gold as being of any value at all. If someone came to me and wanted to barter for my extra compass or water filter...you can bet your butt im not taking gold. My wool jacket will keep me warm when theres no heat...what will gold do for me?

I think the big money maker in situation X will be guns, ammo, specialized knowledge and communal protection. Guns were cheap a few years ago...the boat is leaving on cheap guns but you can still get good surplus rifles for 100-150 bucks.

I also think tools are gonna be worth more than gold, too. I live in the north-east USA. If all of a sudden 90% of my neighbors cant heat their homes anymore, they are gonna have to burn wood for heat. There just aint enough axes IMO to provide enough wood to 90 million people in a winter. Plenty of money...but no axes.

Food will be big as well. The logistics of it blow my mind. I have come to the conclusion that a vast majority of people WILL be able to find plenty of food in the short term. Raiding wal-marts and supermarkets will probably be the most tempting to a large part of the population. One of those 10 pound bags of rice sugar and flour will feed you for a while.

But after those are picked clean it will be survival of the fittest. Those with guns will eat, those who dont will not. Gold or no Gold

I agree completely, but as is posted originally (as far as a valuable commodity goes situation x or not) what would be valuable? If i load up on canned goods and situation x occurs, well then great I will be able to eat food. If situation x does not occur then I will have a hard time trying to find someone to buy back 200 cans of soup.

I do agree with you on ammo though and I would mark that down as the first valuable commodity in this thread situation x or not. The price has been going up since January 2007 or earlier and I have also been informed that .223 ammo will not be supplied for the rest of 2007. This is for Pennsylvania, not sure if this applies elsewhere. The guy I was talking with even said, "this stuff is worth gold now."

I would be glad if i could find some gold coins that I could buy for face value with cash, but they are usually worth more than a dollar if they are marked 1 dollar on the coin.

I'll chime in if I can think of anymore commodities.

I think in the beginning of such a situation, the most important thing would be to take care of yourself first. get yourself a emergency rations kit (or two), you know, the ones with the water, MRE's, reflective blanket (forgot the term), stuff like that that can last you awhile at least. Once you get straigtened out, you need to figure out what you have and what you dont have. determine in your mind what is valuable and what is not. What do you think another person would want?
IMO purchase ammo, food, the emergency kits... survival items would be a big thing along with the ammo.
(I know this is for an economic crisis, but I'm treating it as bad as a natural disaster. )

I found a supply of one gallon of spring water for .25 cents. thats 10 dollars per 40 gallons!

I think there is a differentiation in the OP between Crash and Chaos. Each is a very different animal. Silver and Gold would go through the roof in an economic Crash. But, as previously stated, may be virtually worthless for a long time after Chaos.

Guns and Ammo 1st. They buy you protection and food potential. The most important things after Chaos. The guns should give a nice return in case nothing happens, but cashing stuff back out really doesn't enter into my thought process. It would suck to do a rollercoaster approach to preparedness and get hit when your thinking everything's hunkydory.

I've seen "OP" several times on this board, what does it stand for?

I was referring to your Original Post.

.22 shells would be very good trading item. Garden seed enough for three years, fertilizer, canning jars, lids, and canner. kitchen wood stove with hot water capacity. Deep well hand pump. short wave radio with solar panel to run.

Since everyone seems to agree that guns and ammo are one of the most indispensible survival tools you should own and I don't know too much about them, I just have some questions...

Do guns require maintainence when not in use? Ie. If you don't use your gun, do you still have to take it out, take it apart, clean it, oil all the moving parts, etc on a monthly or yearly basis? Or can you leave it locked up for a decade and then pull it out and use it at a moment's notice? Same goes for bullets.... do they deteriorate, rust, or do the chemical components inside break down over time, or will a bullet purchased today be exactly as effective in 50 years?

On that same note, what type of gun typically requires the least maintainence? If you could only choose one, what kind of gun would you choose to stock for a survival situation? (It should be widely available to the public without special permits.) I think I would lean towards a pump-action shotgun with slugs for large animals and defense purposes, and a smaller size of shot for hunting birds, squirrels, etc. Or would a rifle be a better choice? Do rifled barrels need to be cleaned more often than those without? Therefore is it better to go with smooth-bore or rifled?

What will you need to stock up on besides ammunition to go with your firearm? Gun oil or some form of lubricant seems fairly obvious, not sure what else.

[edit on 9/11/2007 by Yarcofin]

good questions on the guns. I have heard of bullets being fired now from 1942, .45, with a few duds. I don't know specifically what kind of decay the powder has, if any, but you should expect to get at least 20 years out of rounds and probably way more than that. Just keep them cool and more importantly dry. Like storage for anything else.


Guns have maintenance requirements to make the work the best, to be optimal and within the specified limits. Now with a good gun you can go outside of these limits and even forget them completely and the gun will still work well. For instance the famous claim of the ak47 where kalashnikov himself says you can dump a handful of sand into the gun and shoot. Obviously this will hurt the rifle and eventually cause it to have a malfunction. But you cant do that same thing with other guns like the m16 series and variants.

I would pick something based on the ak action for a rifle, a glock or 1911 for pistol. Maintenance is simple. The important issue on maintaining a gun is to watch for the powder residue which can be corrosive. After you have fired your weapon, you need to clean it, everytime. If you have cleaned your weapon it is recommended to add a bit of oil in choice locations and then it will be fine to sit. Just when you go to shoot it again, clean and oil it once more. Its not going to waste away and become inoperable unless it was made in china or something.


It is a good idea to know your gun and what pieces will fail. Just buy the gun and get a few of those pieces as spares. Things like a striker, guide rod, barrel if you want.

Seriously though, the glock and ak are legendary and will almost surely shoot everytime. one thing about the ak though is that rounds are becoming expensive and scarce. smooth bored doesnt pose any kind of benefit in my eyes.

I would agree with all that. I think if I had to have one gun only I would agree with Yarcofin's statement on the shotgun. Do to the wide variety of shot, from slugs to pheasant. The only consideration would be the use of a removable choke if you only have the one shotgun. Since slugs would eventually split a choke or worse.

Whilst the masses are raiding the shopping malls, I'll be busy raiding the library (technical section) for useful books and manuals for my post-X borrow-by-barter mobile library




[edit on 11-9-2007 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by citizen smith
Whilst the masses are raiding the shopping malls, I'll be busy raiding the library (technical section) for useful books and manuals for my post-X borrow-by-barter mobile library




[edit on 11-9-2007 by citizen smith]

Do books taste good with ketchup?

I am in agreement. Although I will not be anywhere near a library, or any 'public' place in Sit X. I have already ferreted away all the reading I will need to occupy my time for a few months while I'm sitting out the post-Chaotic period.

Trading these stores of knowledge seems incomprehensible to me. As the old saying goes, 'Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish........ I would pass them on to my children/community.

Everyone thinks that we're heading for some sort of post disaster world wide Katrina style event. I say horse feathers to that. NOLA after the levees broke was made worse by gov't ineptitude(all 3 levels, local,state and federal).

The most important commodity(s) you can have in any survival situation is a useful survival skill and an ability to work well with others. The criminals and other useless folk get weeded out quickly. Speaking for folks in the USA, one out every 13 people is a military veteran who will likely know how to organize a decent defense. God knows how many professional skilled crafts people there are out there.

Survivors will quickly organize into groups and then larger communities. Any person not pulling their weight will be quickly expelled to fend for themselves or leech off some other group.

Unless you already live a long way from the rest of the world and have a massive stock of supplies, you'll likely be part of some sort of family group or local community. The old adage, "strength in numbers", will never be truer than when faced with great hardship and privation.

No offense intended, but I think your question is fundamentally flawed.

At what point will you sell back your survival purchases? In other words, when will you be sure that situation x isn't coming? The whole notion of preparedness rests on the belief that we can't know for certain what the future will bring.

I think food is a great survival investment and you don't have to sell it back to derive value from it in a non-emergency situation - just eat it!

If you stockpile, say, 200 cans of soup, why not eat one every two days, and buy fifteen once a month? This way you keep your stock fresh, and even if nothing happens, it's not like you have to throw the food away. The soup is just an example, a lot of foods that store well could qualify. I can't tolerate more than one can of spam a week (too salty), but I can eat that one and buy four more once a month to keep the stockpile filled. Same goes for peanut butter, water, rice, flour, etc..

It's also a good idea to eat your survival foods on a regular basis, because it prepares the body for them. If you never eat beans and rice, but have 20 tons of the stuff stockpiled, you're in for a nasty surprise should the fit ever hit the shan. Your body will not be familiar with the food, and intestinal problems or appetite fatigue could literally kill you as a result.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
If you never eat beans and rice, but have 20 tons of the stuff stockpiled, you're in for a nasty surprise should the fit ever hit the shan. Your body will not be familiar with the food

A double-case of the fit hitting the shan!

sorry...couldn't resist the opportunuity for crude humour

[edit on 13-9-2007 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
No offense intended, but I think your question is fundamentally flawed.

At what point will you sell back your survival purchases? In other words, when will you be sure that situation x isn't coming? The whole notion of preparedness rests on the belief that we can't know for certain what the future will bring.

I think food is a great survival investment and you don't have to sell it back to derive value from it in a non-emergency situation - just eat it!

If you stockpile, say, 200 cans of soup, why not eat one every two days, and buy fifteen once a month? This way you keep your stock fresh, and even if nothing happens, it's not like you have to throw the food away. The soup is just an example, a lot of foods that store well could qualify. I can't tolerate more than one can of spam a week (too salty), but I can eat that one and buy four more once a month to keep the stockpile filled. Same goes for peanut butter, water, rice, flour, etc..

It's also a good idea to eat your survival foods on a regular basis, because it prepares the body for them. If you never eat beans and rice, but have 20 tons of the stuff stockpiled, you're in for a nasty surprise should the fit ever hit the shan. Your body will not be familiar with the food, and intestinal problems or appetite fatigue could literally kill you as a result.

Not much is this selling back of something valuable but transferring your wealth into something way more liquid than dollar bills, which will be worth nothing if situation x happens. If situation x doesnt happen but rather a gradual yet predictable decay in the economy with some sort of slow, non-violent reorganization of the government then you would want something you could sell back....dollars wouldnt be worth as much but food may still be readily available for instance. I could forsee a much more barter oriented economy taking form with less emphasis on credit and intangible assets. Gold, in this example, would still have value. Gold will always have value but it will not always be useful, that is the key.

I would love to stock up on some choice books from fringe authors, some from paladin press in particular, but I dare not order them from amazon and I don't see them anywhere else unfortunately.

Does anyone know of a place to get very cheap or free printouts of say an 84 page .pdf file?


As a side note, in light of the september 14th predictions and speculation, I suspect that a government of some sort will go on in this country for sometime after there may be some general public decay, likely draconian in nature. After this, people will be destroyed as a collective enemy or they will take over and form a new government.