Mars Rover Picture Analysis Discussion

Originally posted by rgclark
Perhaps you could bring this point up with Drs. Adler and Bell when you talk with them.

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, and I know that this is quite rude; but I still can't walk passed the fact that the names of these doctors they have chosen as faces outward in this case have names which are like gold mines for Christian Conspiracy theorists.

If you're not interrested in the ancient connections to the events of today, which is the age of fulfilling of (astral) prophecies, please ignore this post. Don't post a bunch of BS explaining your ignorance towards this. If admin or the mods of this thread wants to move this post, please feel free to do so, but I think it has been put in the correct place. Afterall, human born astronomy evolved from the age, religions and areas mentioned in this post, and the connections between today's astronomy and yesterday's plans of astro-religious prophecy are clear. The Mars journey is indeed related to the ancient prophecies and gods of Europe and the Middle East.

Anyway. Here's my usual input:

Adler: German for eagle. The German eagle doesn't resonate very brilliantly in my head. And Hitler's wet dream was to make his very own Roman Empire. Hitler was the person who brought about international TV broadcasting. His show was the 1936 Berlin Olympics where he throned as the strong leader of his "glorious empire". A perfect fulfillment of the Image of the Beast...

Bell: Almost Bel the Babylonian main Sun/planets/astrology god under Nebukadnezzar, and also a variant of Ba'al, a name of Satan. However, some say the family name Bell derives from Isabel, which some people theorise is a form of the Semitic name or title meaning "Daughter of Bel", possibly a referance to Babylon as the throne/city of Bel/Ba'al. Bel is the 666 god which sums up all of the Zodiak. Ba'al was the inventor of the Babylonian Zodiak in Babylonian tradition, him who created Heaven in Babylonian lore and myth. Possibly a mystification of Nimrod and his tower which God hated and disapproved by destroying it with a "touch of his finger". When combined, this leaves us with: Nimrod is infact the archetype of Ba'al, God's and the children of God's main Adversary or Satan, and his Babel Tower was infact the Zodiak. He was a man who sought to challenge God and his prophets by reshaping the constellations and interfere with sound prophecy, and he elevated himself into a deity and is often refered to as a giant, a person who is driven by astrology. Bell was also the name of the company which invented modern television, the living idol which speaks. The first broadcast was that of the American President......

Mars: The Roman god of war. A Roman variant of Marduk. Marduk is another name for Ba'al. Ba'al is often refered to in plural form in the Tannakh, the Ba'als, for it refers to the Sun (Ba'al Subul -- The Exalted Lord, Ba'al Berit -- Lord of the Covenant, Beelzebub -- typical Jewish sarcasm: Lord of the Flies etc.) and the planets (the Ba'als or the children of Ba'al).

The ongoing Mars mission: The fact that this also is a perfect fulfillment of the prophecy of the image of the Beast is yet again striking. The planets as of today, carry the names of Roman deities, inherited from Babylon whose astrology, Zodiak or the Name of the Beast, is the counterpart of the Name of God, his Grand Plan and true prophecy. It's also interresting to note that this is a joint venture between USA, Europe and Japan. The last time we saw such a constellation was about half a century ago during WW2 and the three main fronts in the war, and the leaders and adversaries in the nuclear race.

Whose "Spirit" is it the USA have crowned their vessel with?

I see Nazi Germany as the last shoot on the Beast, they fulfilled the prophecy of the fourth beast (Roman Empire/the Power of Europe) and the little horn (Hitler) in Daniel and Babylon I see as it's "school" and teacher, in 4th Ezra the Beast itself is even likened with a great eagle. One of the most common symbols used by the Roman Empire was also that of an Eagle. When C�sar rebuilt the Temple, he added a great Eagle above the main gate. Go figure.....

USA makes a perfect fulfillment of the goat which flew throughout the world without touching the ground, which destroyed the ram, also in Daniel. The goat is an image of Javan or the Greek Empire, possibly symbolic for democracy and also it's deities: Apollo among the greatest(!), while the ram is an image for Medo-Persia, originally the area today known as Iran (Persia) and the area surrounding it mostly, type of the UN (God knows what plans they have with the UN. There should be no doubt that the USA "runs" the UN, but they don't pay their dues, a combination which is quite typical and slightly pathetic if you ask me).

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Kano
1. Its effectively the same thing. Plus theres no advantage to be had doing the processing on site when it can be done just as easily, and far better on earth.

Not when it comes to credibility. If they had simply brought a 300 $ 5 megapixel digicam, which is more than good enough for calibration and credibility reasons, they would possibly have scored better among conspiracy theorists. I suggest they do this next time, if they plan to resurface there for simple credibility reasons.

2. Read the article, also see the new graphs sent by Dr. Bell.

A graph and technical wiz about pigments and how they do their magic is simply not good enough. Why couldn't they just show credible examples done with similar equipment, preferably the same equipment (they must have done a whole lot of testing here on Earth first to adjust the instruments make them ready for launch), "here on Earth", instead of ranting around technology, and flooding out what for most people is completely inconprehencible data about color spectra, filters, channels and pigments simply don't convince me in this obvious paradox? A paradox which btw is one in a long series of photographic blunders coming from NASA since the beginning of the space race. What kind of fluoricent agent have they used in that blue color spot on the sundial so I can dig up credible info on this from neutral sources? This can hardly be secret info, and if it was included in your article, please excuse me, I must have missed it somehow

3. Why wouldn't radio waves work in zero g? I don't think laser communications are advanced enough for this sort of application yet. Plus the NASA Deep Space network is already in place, why fix it if it aint broke.

Why radiowaves wouldn't work? Sound waves can't move in space as far as I know. There is simply no air to push. If something explodes beside you in space you simply won't hear it. But the thing may be different with higher energy outputs in the GHz range such as this I guess. And about energy. How are they able to transmit messages through millions of kilometers of emptiness with only the power from solar panels? I want such solar panels too so I don't have to pay so high electricity bills. And BBC or CBS would also have loved to have such panels and wireless sender in their radio busses I guess. What's the energy specs on the equipment used by the sender and all the other equipment which need power from the solar panels?

As you have understood by now, I am a sceptic.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius And about energy. How are they able to transmit messages through millions of kilometers of emptiness with only the power from solar panels?

The same way I (when into ham radio) was able to communicate around the world on 2 watts of power (QRP). Good antennas. They have a pretty good antenna on the Spirit rover... and giant-massive-dishes here on earth. Simple.

Originally posted by rgclark
Well the original panoramic image that created the controversy did show the surface and sky in the same shot with the sundial:

marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov...
[large image 4.1 mbytes]
My guess is that they can still get a similar shot now that the rover is up and moving.

Bob Clark

How about a panorama night shot of the sky? So we can calculate where it has been taken from by the position of the planets, including Earth?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

MM perhaps you could actually go and learn something about the concepts at hand here, before going off on idiotic tangents with them.

Plus you'll find pretty much all of those questions are covered in the original postings.

[Edited on 22-1-2004 by Kano]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by mikromarius
And about energy. How are they able to transmit messages through millions of kilometers of emptiness with only the power from solar panels?

The same way I (when into ham radio) was able to communicate around the world on 2 watts of power (QRP). Good antennas. They have a pretty good antenna on the Spirit rover... and giant-massive-dishes here on earth. Simple.

Fair enough for sending up to an orbiting satellite or to the nearest receiver if "the coast is clear". And if you don't need more energy to transmit maybe 70 million kilometers further, that would be a fair argument. But it still doesn't explain the physics here. How can radiowaves move through empty space? Sorry, I said zero gravity earlier, I meant cosmos. Where there is no air, nada, nix, null, nothing.... And I can't seem to find any pictures of the night sky as seen from Mars. That would have been one of the first things I would have sent down. It could have perhaps have been used in order to find out with how many degrees space curves for instance. Or a great tool in order to calculate more accurately the distance to our neighbouring planets. How about a shot of the Earth? With Mars as observation point, where would Earth be on the night sky? In which constellation would Earth be? Sorry I'm lazy.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius But it still doesn't explain the physics here. How can radiowaves move through empty space? Sorry, I said zero gravity earlier, I meant cosmos. Where there is no air, nada, nix, null, nothing....

Sorry man... but I can't believe you just said that. Electormagnetic Waves travel just fine, otherwise the entire field of radio astronomy is all washed up. Really dude... no offense... but something this basic causes pause when considering any input you might have on subjects of science.

Originally posted by Kano
MM perhaps you could actually go and learn something about the concepts at hand here, before going off on idiotic tangents with them.

Plus you'll find pretty much all of those questions are covered in the original postings.

The physics of how radiowaves are able to move in cosmos where there is nothing to move? Sorry if I offend you here, I appreciate your work and I understand that you have used many hours of hard work on this, but please understand that this is primary a conspiracy site, not a NASA propaganda channel. I'll read through your work more thoroughly, I'll promise that, but since I am not an expert in these things, I need more simplified explanations which makes sense. Why are there no shots of the night sky included among the pictures on the NASA mars site? I want some stars! And I want to see the other planets as seen from Mars.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius but please understand that this is primary a conspiracy site, not a NASA propaganda channel.

That is enough! Yes this is a conspiracy site, but we have always attempted to research what is, and what is not a conspiracy here. People ranting baseless crap will get challenged on ATS! Deny ignorance is exactly what we're doing here. Understanding the problem, and discovering the reasons behind a problem. That line was an insult to the people who have worked on this. I want you to retract.

Originally posted by mikromarius
Sorry if I offend you here, I appreciate your work and I understand that you have used many hours of hard work on this, but please understand that this is primary a conspiracy site, not a NASA propaganda channel. I'll read through your work more thoroughly, I'll promise that, but since I am not an expert in these things, I need more simplified explanations which makes sense. Why are there no shots of the night sky included among the pictures on the NASA mars site? I want some stars! And I want to see the other planets as seen from Mars.

mikromarius clearly says that he's not an expert in these things and would like a more simplified explanation. I find no harm in that. He also apologizes beforehand if his post would be taken offensively.

I'd love to see some nighttime pictures from mars.

Originally posted by BanginI'd love to see some nighttime pictures from mars.

We're not even sure if the camera can look up. And I'm sure it doesn't have even basic telephoto lenses, much less something that could pick out earth.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by mikromarius
But it still doesn't explain the physics here. How can radiowaves move through empty space? Sorry, I said zero gravity earlier, I meant cosmos. Where there is no air, nada, nix, null, nothing....

Sorry man... but I can't believe you just said that.

Electormagnetic Waves travel just fine, otherwise the entire field of radio astronomy is all washed up.

Really dude... no offense... but something this basic causes pause when considering any input you might have on subjects of science.

One thing is to measure radiation from stars not containing patterns and and stars send at higher energy than let's say 2W at 6 volts. Another is to proove that conventional radio transmitters are able to function in space in the first place. At least for me. I admit I am not an expert in the fields of science, and certainly not in this area. That is exactly why I ask these questions. And if you pay notice to what I usually discuss, my wisdom is concentrated in another field than science. I still haven't been able to dig up anything which explains the physics in this. I have always believed you needed air to send radiowaves.....

And the distance to Mars is another thing than the distance up to a satellite which is infact rather close to us. And between a satellite and earth there is a gravitation field and some form of gasses etc. through which the waves can pass. I'm a silly person who asks silly questions. Why make me even more silly by giving me silly answers?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Here is some usefull information on electromagnetic radiation.

Propagation of an Electromagnetic Wave

Some definitions of different wave types.

Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

Something else of interest from the above site, in regards to the electromagnet radiation produced by the sun:

An electromagnetic wave is a wave which is capable of transmitting its energy through a vacuum (i.e., empty space). Electromagnetic waves are produced by the vibration of electrons within atoms on the Sun's surface. These waves subsequently travel through the vacuum of outer space, subsequently reaching Earth. Were it not for the ability of electromagnetic waves to travel to Earth, there would undoubtedly be no life on Earth.

[Edited on 1/22/04 by crayon]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by BanginI'd love to see some nighttime pictures from mars.

We're not even sure if the camera can look up.
And I'm sure it doesn't have even basic telephoto lenses, much less something that could pick out earth.

Well, I'd like to advise NASA to get better consultants in the area of credibility and PR. A picture of the night sky as seen from Mars would be a best seller in the poster marked, and could add some credibility to the whole space program. The abundance of stars in virtually all extra terrestrial images produced by NASA has been the root of many conspiracy theories. Infact. In all pictures alledgely taken from the Moon, there are not more than 3 stars visible. Something I find quite peculiar. But I guess it has to do with the shutters right?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by BanginI'd love to see some nighttime pictures from mars.

We're not even sure if the camera can look up.
And I'm sure it doesn't have even basic telephoto lenses, much less something that could pick out earth.

Of course there are limitations, which is why I posted that I'd love to see 'nighttime' pictures from mars. If we can see the sky in other pics from mars, then I don't understand why we couldn't catch a glimpse of mars' night sky. I am certainly not an expert in this field, or any field for that matter, so I apologize if I sound idiotic.

Originally posted by crayon
Here is some usefull information on electromagnetic radiation.

Propagation of an Electromagnetic Wave

Some definitions of different wave types.

Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

Something else of interest from the above site, in regards to the electromagnet radiation produced by the sun:

An electromagnetic wave is a wave which is capable of transmitting its energy through a vacuum (i.e., empty space). Electromagnetic waves are produced by the vibration of electrons within atoms on the Sun's surface. These waves subsequently travel through the vacuum of outer space, subsequently reaching Earth. Were it not for the ability of electromagnetic waves to travel to Earth, there would undoubtedly be no life on Earth.

[Edited on 1/22/04 by crayon]

Thankyou Crayon for the help. But the question still remains: How much energy would you need to create such waves artificially for the use of digital data transmission from Mars to Earth?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by BanginI'd love to see some nighttime pictures from mars.

We're not even sure if the camera can look up.
And I'm sure it doesn't have even basic telephoto lenses, much less something that could pick out earth.

Well Mars is smaller than Earth and for the moment it is one of the brightest stars on the night sky. Mars has always been visible for the naked eye. And Earth wouldn't? If you had said that it was because Earth is behind the observing point, you would have gotten a little cred, but this? But the invention of harddisks should fix this problem. The sky is clearly visible on many of the images.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by mikromarius
but please understand that this is primary a conspiracy site, not a NASA propaganda channel.

That line was an insult to the people who have worked on this. I want you to retract.

All the info presented is infact NASA stuff. Parts of the idea with research is to gather info from as many sources as possible. But I'm not dissing Kano or anyone else who has been working on this here, I simply underline one of the greatest reasons for my scepsis here, for as far as I can see, all the information presented does infact come from the same source: NASA. How about verifying the info with indipendent scientists? My concerns go in the direction that the whole space program is nothing but a hoax, a means for the USA to stay in control as a Superpower. Much like what you said you had almost concluded with in a paper about Roswell some months back in RATS or where it was. And China is to be the first to send people to the Moon after USA. Perhaps USA was unable to keep the secret anymore, since it is infact China who produce more or less every chip the US use in their technology. And speeking of technology. How was the equipment and the delicate instruments onboard Spirit shielded against radiation while it left the atmosphere here on Earth? Such questions deserve answers. No matter how stupid they are. NASA and you guys should take such questions seriously.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Here is some information from a source other than NASA.

Looks like the low-gain antenna uses 40watts of power.

Rover Communications

Originally posted by mikromarius
Thankyou Crayon for the help. But the question still remains: How much energy would you need to create such waves artificially for the use of digital data transmission from Mars to Earth?

For starters the rover only operates at day, its solar powered remember?

Originally posted by mikromarius
All the info presented is infact NASA stuff. Parts of the idea with research is to gather info from as many sources as possible. But I'm not dissing Kano or anyone else who has been working on this here, I simply underline one of the greatest reasons for my scepsis here, for as far as I can see, all the information presented does infact come from the same source: NASA. How about verifying the info with indipendent scientists? My concerns go in the direction that the whole space program is nothing but a hoax, a means for the USA to stay in control as a Superpower. Much like what you said you had almost concluded with in a paper about Roswell some months back in RATS or where it was. And China is to be the first to send people to the Moon after USA. Perhaps USA was unable to keep the secret anymore, since it is infact China who produce more or less every chip the US use in their technology. And speeking of technology. How was the equipment and the delicate instruments onboard Spirit shielded against radiation while it left the atmosphere here on Earth? Such questions deserve answers. No matter how stupid they are. NASA and you guys should take such questions seriously.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Marius, the only things that come from NASA in my article are the emails, and the RAW images. The rest of the information is from a variety of other sources.

As you would also know if you had even bothered to read it.

Basically, NASA has a mission on Mars to study the geology. Not to convince you personally of anything. Especially considering you weren't even aware of the difference between sound waves and electromagnetic radiation. That is such a fundamental and ridiculous error as to be unforgiveable, especially when you are challenging things based on this.