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Surviving the Titanic tragedy

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posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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I just watched Titanic and now I think that a lot more of the passengers could have survived it's sinking if they had tried to do something other than stand around trying to get on the lifeboat.

they could have used the fire axes to get wood from the ship itself, and they had alot of rope. They could have gotten bolts and screws from all over the ship. It just seems to me that if given an hour on a sinking ship like that, a person would be able to make themself some sort of raft or boat. There was even furniture that would be a good start for making a raft.

Maybe some tried...

What else could they have done? I think it must be possible that everyone could have survived, if they worked together and were sharp about it.




posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 08:18 PM
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Are you talking about surviving the actual experience on the Titanic?

Or surviving that movie? A horrible interpretation of the disaster.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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And this is where hindsight is always clear. These people were terrified, not to mention in shock. With people running in panic and the boat sinking I'm pretty sure nobody including yourself should you have endured that tragedy would have thought to pull together scrap metal for a raft.

The water was frigid, that raft you speak of would have had to been pretty secure.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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If you could have built a sturdy raft and launched it, the most dangerous aspect would be those around you also trying their best to survive...as soon as your raft hit the water you would have to be fighting-off hundreds of other desperate souls hell-bent on taking your place



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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The ship sank in the middle of the night, as I recall. So even if you have a few clear-headed insomniacs, they'll start picking up the panic of those around them, who were still dressed in nightclothes, terrified, and confused as to what had happened.

The ship was metal, and from what I recall, it would have been nearly impossible to dissemble it in bits without good tools, which were unavailable to the passengers. Also, remember the ethics/morals of the time. Women and children were allowed onto the lifeboats first; men were actively prevented from leaving.

But if you could stay clear-headed until the very last, when it was safe to jump from deck to water, and had assembled a make-do raft from furniture and such, you would have a fairly good chance of surviving to swim to a lifeboat. True story: one of the crewmates -- the cook, I believe -- was drunk that night, and simply stepped off the deck as it went down. He stayed in the water the longest of any survivor -- a little over an hour or so, I believe.

My opinion:

Let's say that we have an insomniac man in the prime of life. He is mildly intoxicated this evening, and is sitting in the smoking room when he hears a clanging/thumping noise from down below. Immediately, he assumes the worst, being an engineer.

Always calm, he retreats to a far corner of the smoking room and begins building his raft. He uses curtain ties and chairs to make it, and tests to be sure he can lift it. He then locates some stronger rope and reinforces his weak curtain ties.

Assuming that the water has not reached him yet (or possibly that he is only exercising his skill), he continues working until the rush of feet in the corridor slackens. Finally, he tests that his raft will hold his weight. He reinforces it as best he can, and, with no way to test its buoyancy, heads for the corridor.

It's very late in the tragedy by now, as he hurries to the uppermost deck. There is no one in the corridor, and he resigns himself to possible death.
He comes onto the main deck of the ship. The ship's band is playing as the last lifeboat is let down.

Studying the water level, he strides as calmly as he can across the tilting deck to the edge. It's close enough for safety, he thinks, and, grasping his raft, he jumps.

The water is almost freezing, even though it is salt water with a low freezing temperature. Luckily, his raft holds up, and, using it as a support for himself, begins to paddle for the nearest lifeboat. He reaches it soon enough, numbed by cold and chilled by the screams of the drowning, and climbs aboard. He will likely survive.

So, theoretically, one could survive the disaster with some previous knowledge and calmness. Realistically, I don't think so. Panic is infectious.

However, I'd still place my bets with the fictional insomniac engineer. Because he was awake and lucid, he would act more calmly. Because he is an engineer, he has some knowledge of how he should build a raft. And because he is a man, he will not be forced onto a liferaft; he can remain aboard until the water is close enough to step into.

So if the male passengers (the last aboard the ship, other than a few ladies who remained with their husbands) had worked together, they might have been denounced as cowards (for trying to survive), but they likely would have gotten out alive.

(I apologize for the long post -- most of it's the analogy -- but I was a massive Titanic fan in my childhood, and picked up a lifelong love of the subject. On that subject, the Denver Museum of Nature and Science has an exhibit on the Titanic -- very infomative.)



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 11:10 PM
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Thankyou for the input. I understand that they were in a terrible situation, decision making would be very difficult. I would also bet that a group of men could have put something together and I also think they could have seperated themselves from others trying to steal their boat, if they had a few makeshift oars and paddled like crazy to get away.

I'm not only interested in what they could have known to do, but also what they simply could have done with everything available to them (not subject to the fog of the moment). I'm also interested in how everyone could have been saved, not just a few people.

One idea I had is that they could have turned the boat around and gone straight back to the iceberg after hitting it. People could have been ferried somehow over to the iceberg maybe. They could have brought heavy clothing and blankets and even water with them, in preparation for the harsh conditions on this iceberg.

Anyone know how long it would take to turn the ship around, do you think this feasible at all in general?

I say that regardless of how much that iceberg could have helped, the captain should have turned around and gone back to it (edit: assuming this was reasonably possible) the moment he realized he was going to sink. Even if it only saved one person there was no other destination that was going to provide any advantage at that point, except maybe getting closer to the ship that was going to arrive hours later.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by Novise]



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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Keep in mind that the thing that killed most of them was that they didn't think the ship was going to sink. So, unlike what the movie portrays, there wasn't a lot of time that people were thinking OMFG I'm going to die - get me a boat. In fact, they were so confident the ship was going to stay afloat that it was determined during the hearings that one of the things that played into the larger loss of life was the fact that the order "women and children first" into the lifeboats made women and children stay behind on the Titanic with their husbands rather than be sent out on a little bitty boat when they thought the big ship was going to stay afloat.

IF ANY of the events of that night had been handled correctly by the authoritative bodies of that ship and others, many lives would have been saved. But they were not, and it was not the passengers' fault.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by Valhall]



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 11:26 PM
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I wonder if in another hundred years the historians of the day will be discussing the similarities between the passengers of the Titanic and the citizens of the US. I imagine they'll throw in a few references to the fall of the Roman Empire just to round out the discussion. Will mankind never learn?



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 10:20 AM
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I agree with ValHall on this one.

I think that most everyone then believed in the "system" and were not the cynics we are today. We no longer take things at face value or accept what we are told. For the most part I believe that was the end of an era where people blindy put their faith in others. So I doubt many people even had a plan because the situation wasn't going to happen...there may have been a few but by the time the masses knew it was probally a little late in the game.

Today, we do our homework and question everything. Hard to say what would have happened if people then had todays mentality...might have been more deaths who knows. Everyone for themselves...women and children first...yea right...I just dont think society is programed like that anymore. One of the first major tragedies in the century and a lot of lessons were learned. And I believe it was an eye opener for the masses.

I mean what band today would stay on the ship and play to the end this day and age...I'd be paddeling the chello with the violin that I stole from the guy next to me.


Funny story was that I had to take my wife to see this movie when I was stationed in Germany and 2 days later we were on this ferry going to england to see the in-laws...HUGE ship leaving Amsterdam and arriving in Hull the next day. You boarded at 5pm and arrived in england in the am...Man wanna talk about paranoid...traveling the North Sea in december(I know a little south for icebergs) Being a brand new dad...my right

I upgraded my room to a handicap accessable room(closer to the exits) and started mapping out my escape plan who I would have to take out and timed the path several times...I hate boats/ships...Why I was in the Army, I guess. My wife laughed at me but appreciates the efforts that I take to keep my family safe.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by kaferwerks]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 07:02 AM
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Kaferwerks your safety measures sound like something I would consider doing. I have never been on a ship/boat and have no intentions of doing so in my lifetime.

I have to agree that if the same tragedy would be to occur in todays age there would be no room for women and children to get off first, it would be survivial of the fittest. Im not going to bag that out becuase I know I probably would be the person beating you with the ships horn to get your position on the boat, but its kind of sad how things change.

There seems a romantic sadness to think that people had blind faith and moral codes to which they (well most, as im sure some would not have) stuck so closely too.

Oh, Thats my naive side coming out again.


KTK

posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 07:15 AM
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The only way I could see out of it is random bits of furniture. It would be interesting to find out if there were any survivors not on life rafts.


I have to admit anything conventially titanic dosnt interest me. Although I am partial to the many conspiracy theories surrounding it. Many of those theories suggest the passengers were doomed from the onset.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by KTK
 


When you speak of these conspiracies, I imagine you mean something like some form of social experiment?? To see how people would react not only on board - ie if people created life saving devices as this thread suggests- But how the public would react to such huge loss of life?



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 06:03 PM
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I thought about this...

the moment it became clear the ship was sinking they should have doubled back, located the iceberg and started dropping off passengers on the iceberg using ropes and boats.

A lot more could have been saved, even if individuals would have used furniture tied together with ropes it would have saved a lot more.

I would have made something that floats which would keep me alive for the neccessary six hours. Once the wife and kids were in the boat I am sure I would McGyver something up.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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History shows Bruce Ismay as the ultimate corporate scoundrel and Capt. Smith as a man of honor. I can't imagine myself being lowered into a lifeboat while watching women and children left behind. I guess I'm old fashioned that way. The real great tragedy was that they locked the immigrants into the lower holds while the ship sank. The real survival challenge would have been getting out of that.


KTK

posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by gogosam
 


Hello fellow Aussie, no not a social experiment unfortunalty.


There are two main conspiracies that get floated about a fair bit. The first is the switcheroonie insurance theory, where it is thought the Titanic was switiched with another ship for insurance purposes.


The other one which I quite like to read up on is this one. Being an Aussie you may wish to investigate how the US federal reserve was created and what it actually is(many a thread on ATS about it). Apparently 3 very rich and powerful men were on the ship and died, these men were opposed to the creation of the US federal reserve. If you read up on that theory you can see why no-one was meant to survive.


In my books the official story is just as nuts as the above theories. At least the crazy conspracy theories give as reason to why everything went wrong.


Ive come across nutty websites that claim James Cameron is a Freemason and Kate Winslet is Order of the Eastern Star. And that the 21st century rehash of the events is more sinister than we like to think.
Again the poor Freemasons or evil Jesuits get the blame( I can understand why our resident ATS masons get shirty defending themselves from that type of poop)

[edit on 24-9-2007 by KTK]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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Thanks KTK... Interesting stuff, especially about the US federal reserve - throughout history measures taken to ensure people get what they want have often held horrific consequences for the innocent, which inidcates to me that such a theory is plausible. Im going to look into it a little more. Thanks heaps for the info, much apreciated.



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by KTK
The only way I could see out of it is random bits of furniture. It would be interesting to find out if there were any survivors not on life rafts.


There were a very small number of passengers pulled out of the water when the lifeboats returned, but the number was only in the very low double figures. More probably would have survived if the rafts had returned sooner, but they grossly over estimated the degree of suction that the sinking ship would cause, fearing that they would be pulled under themselves. The first boat took over an hour to return, with many others choosing not to return for fear of the boats being overwhelmed.



posted on Oct, 23 2007 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by gogosam
 


Adding a little more to what KTK said -

In 1910, men representing the Rockefeller's, Rothschild's, and J.P. Morgan met on Jekyll Island to put together the plans for the Federal Reserve.

John Jacob Astor, Benjamin Guggenheim, and Isador Strauss were the three very powerful men whom opposed the creation of a Federal Reserve system, and had the power to stop it.

So naturally, they had to be eliminated.

Captain Edward Smith had been traveling the Northern Atlantic for something like 25 years, so he was full aware of the icebergs, yet he pressed forward full speed ahead through a known ice field.

Captain Smith worked for J.P. Morgan, who funded the building of the Titanic. J.P. Morgan had ties with the Vatican/Jesuits, as did the Rockefeller's and Rothschild's.

Francis Browne, a photographer, who also had ties with Captain Smith and J.P. Morgan, boarded the Titanic, took some pictures, which you can find at TitanicPhotographs.com, and then got off at Queenstown. Why did he get off? Could it be that he was sent aboard to confirm that Astor, Guggenheim, and Strauss were on board, then he would get off the ship knowing what was going to happen?

So the Titanic sinks in a well known area to Captain Smith; a well known iceberg area at the time.

Also, although there is no proof of this, it's worth mentioning that there has been talk that the flares on the Titanic were white, as depicted in the movie. White flares generally symbolize a party of some sorts. Red flares are typically used in distress calls. So it has been mentioned that there were ships in the area, but they saw white flares and assumed the Titanic was fine. I haven't really been able to confirm this yet, though I'm still looking into it.

The three men who were opposed to the Federal Reserve are now dead.

One year later, the Federal Reserve is born.

Coincidence? I think not.

And some may say 'how did they get Captain Smith to kill himself?' You have to understand the Jesuits to understand how.

Click Here to read the Jesuit Oath text.

Click Here to read the document, which is in the Library of Congress (card number 66-43354)

I apologize to the OP for going off topic. But I wanted to add what I knew about this.

Forgive me


KTK

posted on Oct, 27 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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Thanks Novus,

There was stuff there I wasnt even in the know about. Was unaware of the jesuits angle. As a reformed catholic, Im now off to investigate just how awful the jesuits are.


Thanks for the heads up



posted on Mar, 6 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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So it has been mentioned that there were ships in the area, but they saw white flares and assumed the Titanic was fine. I haven't really been able to confirm this yet, though I'm still looking into it.


As a lifelong Titanic buff, I can confirm with some confidence that there was, in fact, a ship within sight of the Titanic the night she went down. This ship, the Californian, probably assumed they were having a really wild party.



yet he pressed forward full speed ahead through a known ice field.


I seem to recall that, while Captain Smith ignored the ice warning he'd gotten earlier on the fourteenth, all the boilers were not lit at the time of the disaster. There was a speed test planned for the afternoon of the fifteenth, and the Titanic did not survive to see all her boilers lit. Still, his was a highly unwise decision, being that the Titanic steered about as well as a refrigerator from what I recall. He blithely assumed that, if there was ice present, the Titanic could bulldoze right on through it, being that it was unsinkable. No need to steer, then.

I'd like to thank Novus and KTK for their new information on the disaster; as a Titanic buff, I'm always on the lookout for new facets of what happened. I'd also like to apologize for the thread resurrection; hopefully we can get some new discussion in here.

My question for any new posters: Do you think it would have been plausible for passengers to survive on makeshift rafts?



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