Originally posted by Chupa101
Its not Imperialist to keep them as part of Britain. We won them fair and square. That's how countries are made, people fight and whoever wins keeps the land.

(Also Chavez has nothing that can be any real threat to UK firepower.)

I am not a military expert, but those who are, have expressed their belief that Chavez, with his improved military equipment, could make things quite difficult for the UK.

Chavez recently spend $3 Billion to upgrade his forces and now has a group of 30 Venezuelan pilots who were trained in Russia to fly a squadron of 24 Sukhoi SU-30 multi-role fighters. Chavez has also bought 100,000 AK-47 assault rifles and negotiated to set up a Kalashnikov factory in Venezuela. He has reportedly ordered nine Russian diesel submarines, including the cruise missile-carrying 677E Amur-class vessel. Again. I am not an expert, but you can find quite a number of individuals with good credentials that are experts on military capabilities, and they indicate that the UK would have serious difficulty if they had to go it alone in the near future as the British Military is currently in a weakened state.

As for your comment that countries grow when they win wars, That is ancient history. In the modern world territory is negotiated. They did it after WWI, WWII and so on. In the case of the Falklands there is a very long, and quite clear record, of Britain Negotiating for the eventual return of the islands to Argentina. Diplomacy is how territory is decided. It wont happen any time soon to be sure, but negotiation is how things happen in civilized nations. Britain did not go to war to claim new territory, it responded to a threat to lands it has colonized. There is a huge difference. As for the colony, see the UN for the current status on that. It is listed for Decolonization.

Originally posted by Phil123

Originally posted by Chris McGee
I don't know why we've still got the falklands anyway, there's really no reason for them to be british territory. Hopefully we can soon divest ourselves of these relics of the imperial past and come to peace with our place in the world.

Because the people who live on the Islands want to remain British simple as that really.

Yeah so do the people in Northern Ireland but London doesn't care what they want, hence the choreographing of the so called peace process. They made it difficult for people to vote, and even claimed "technicalities" to stop people from voting (I know, I was stopped from voting amongst a LOT of people who registered this complaint with their political party).

Voting in the UK doesn't matter. Its all "rigged". I know from my experience with it.

American Black Propaganda against Chavez right? - you mean to tell me that any american newspaper is going to print the truth about Chavez? gimme a freaking break... I suppose you all pull the party line and think Chavez has to be removed...haha jesus what has this place come to

The mentioned link between Northern Ireland and the Falklands is clear. In Both cases the English transplanted a population, which is quite common when seeking to maintain a long term hold on an area. If a vote in Ireland were to be taken by only those who were NOT from English origin, as to whether or not they wished Independence, it would hold more credibility. Clearly, the transplanted population has a different agenda. The influx of English population is the main sore spot for many in Ireland. Along with the English came a religious conflict which continues to be troublesome.

In this thread, people have mentioned that the Falkland Islanders wish to remain British. It would be more correct to state, that the current islanders, *which the British put there*, wish to remain British. The UK, since the initial invasion of the Falklands when they forcefully removed the Argentinians living there at gunpoint, have prohibited any Argentinian from living on the islands.

Many forget that Thacher, just two years prior to the war, tried to promote the negotiated handback agreement to the islanders and she thoroughly botched the mission. The Argies had been yanked around for decades and this was one more straw that denied their sovereign rights. Birtian had agreed to build an airport for the Islanders, to demonstrate how stronger connections to the mainland would improve their lives. But the British failed to follow through. It was the Argentinians who built, and paid for, the airport, and indeed the islanders lives have improved significantly due to improved transportation.

Chavez is simply stating that he would add his forces against any nation that utilizes military action upon his neighbors in South America. Diplomacy should be used not gunships.

Originally posted by Phil123
The geographical proximity to Argentina has nothing to do with it, if we use that logic Britain should be in charge of France after all it's only 20 miles away. As for nothing been more British than living in Britain, well not all British people want to live on the mainland

It has everything to do with it. Those islands quite clearly are not part of the British Isles so why do we own them?

The Islands aren't part of Venezuela or Argentina, so why do they claim them?

twisted logic my friend. The people are British, and it DOES have strategic value. I don't get what Chavez is saying, we already have small naval contingent there along with an airbase and a defence force. Why would we send an entire fleet down there unless it was being threatened?

Besides, I'm pretty sure the Americans will jump at the opportunity to pulverise Venezuela if they start attacking allied forces. It would be tricky for the British to launch attacks on venezuela due to the logistics, so we'd get America do to it for us.

Keep in mind, that both before, and after the Falklands conflict, the US has called for resumed negotiations for the eventual hand back of the Islands to Argentina. You can read the record of the statements made in the UN.

Chavez did not threaten to attack British forces and makes no claim to the Islands. He simply stated, that if such an event as the previous conflict were to take place, he would add his forces to assist Argentina.
Further, Legally, the Islands do indeed belong to Argentina and they have never relinquished that status. It was taken from them by force and that is where the conflict begins. The British government has a long history of planning an eventual handback. The UN commission on decolonization routinely puts fourth the call for resumed negotiations. Remember, that the UK is a significant member of the UN, and helped to create the rules and reasons followed by the commission on decolonization.

[edit on 9/9/07 by Terapin]

I totally agree with you Freeborn. Nothing of consequence will happen so long as personal memories of the conflict remain. In time, things will smooth over.

It should be noted that the UK has invested heavily in Argentina and continues to built good will there. The only remaining thorn that could pose further problems, is the issue of natural resource exploitation. With the UK set to drain off all the oil near the islands, tension has increased. Argentina refused to become minor partners in this venture, as it ignores their desires for return of sovereignty. It remains a sticky wicket.

Originally posted by Chris McGee
I don't know why we've still got the falklands anyway, there's really no reason for them to be british territory. Hopefully we can soon divest ourselves of these relics of the imperial past and come to peace with our place in the world.

Because they were bought and paid for, that's why. You don't just give up something just because it's inconvienant. If he wants it back so badly, PAY FOR IT! Negotiate! Why must everyone bow to this school-yard bully. Refuse to buy his oil and wares and he won't be the hero he is now because he'll have less money to buy his weapons and bribe countries. Yes, China may pick up the slack, but let them. Their oil is dirty and needs major refining. If China wants it, let them.

We have to stop supporting our enemies economically...

Actually...I'd like to know how it can be proven that the islands are argentinian since there is no evidence of thier being there, infact if there was they were removed by the french.

This arguement has been done death in many many threads and frankly Mr Chavez is simply picking a fight with the entire western world, if he wants to evict several hundred people from an island which frankly is legally and morally a british overseas territory then I suggest that he be careful who he picks fights with. We may not be the ruler of the seas but we do have some very powerful friends....I wonder how he would feel if a NATO task force was to sudenly appear off the coast of south america?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Actually...I'd like to know how it can be proven that the islands are argentinian since there is no evidence of thier being there, infact if there was they were removed by the french.

I urge you to do more research on the subject before you make blanket statements that do not reflect the evidence. It is well documented that the British colonised the islands by force and removed all the Argentinians living there to Montivideo. There is a very clear trail of documented evidence that has been verified. Even the British government does not deny this, and has been involved in negotiations for the eventual hand back of the Falklands to Argentina. It wont happen any time soon though. Give it a few generations.

Again, I urge you to do the research and not to simply skim over the subject.

If you look you will see that Britain ceded all rights of the Falklands, without proviso, to Spain. When Argentina gained Independence, the Falklands were recognised as their territory due to the well established principal of Uti Possidetis Juris. Spain endorsed this new ownership and Britain congratulated Argentina on it's Independence and specifically mentioned their sovereignty over the Falklands. In 1825 England signs with Argentina a Treaty of Friendship and Trade in which, among many things, she implicitly recognizes Argentina’s territory. When the British invaded the islands in 1833 there were indeed Argentinian civilians living there as well as an Argentinian garrison. The British forced the inhabitants from the islands at gunpoint.

Argentina had territory that was within it's legal sovereignty, taken by force and has never relinquished that sovereignty. The British government has on a number of occasions negotiated to return the Islands, much as they did with Honk Kong. Legally, in all sense of the word, Argentina has a solid claim and this is why the British government has kept the idea of a hand back on the table. This legal claim by Argentina is also why the UN and other international bodies continues to call for renewed negotiations.

As for the French... The subject of the islands initial discovery is still disputed by many. Some sources credit the Spaniards, the Dutch and the British with it. The  first name given to the islands was “Sanson” by Spanish sailors in 1520. In 1594 the British sail through the islands and name them “Hawkins Maiden Land” and, in 1600, the Dutch produce the first documented discovery of the islands naming them “Sebaldine Islands”. They begin to show up on Spanish and Portuguese navigation charts since mid sixteen century. The French were the first Europeans to settle there in 1764. in 1765, the British, unaware that the French were on another island, claimed the land and established a port the following year. In 1766 the French agreed to leave the islands and were compensated by Spain which also had a claim on the islands. The British left the islands in 1776. At the Nootka convensions of 1790, Britain ceded all rights, without proviso, to Spain.  The French were there for a very short time (two years at max) and never made an issue of ownership.

There is a good deal of incorrect information out there so make sure to double check sources. As with many topics, Wikipedia has a few items incorrect, and a few omissions, but in general is a good overview. It would be better still to look even deeper for more detailed and accurate information. There are a number of documents and treaties well worth reading for those interested in history. I mentioned several items worth looking at in an earlier post.

Just to add to the discussion...

Argentina has offered assurances that the Islanders could maintain their lifestyles and would not be forced to become Argentinian citizens, if a change in sovereignty came about. People would still own their homes and property, speak what ever language they choose, have a representative counsel, and play cricket for all Argentina cares. These assurances have been made publicly as well as in the UN. Cooperative negotiation is the only course in these matters and military action would not solve anything.

Chavez is not even part of the picture, other than the one in his own head.

Originally posted by Terapin
When the British invaded the islands in 1833 there were indeed Argentinian civilians living there as well as an Argentinian garrison. The British forced the inhabitants from the islands at gunpoint.

Actually the settlement was destroyed by an american warship thereby removing the government, britain stepped in and took the island back.....

There is a good deal of incorrect information out there so make sure to double check sources. As with many topics, Wikipedia has a few items incorrect, and a few omissions, but in general is a good overview. It would be better still to look even deeper for more detailed and accurate information. There are a number of documents and treaties well worth reading for those interested in history. I mentioned several items worth looking at in an earlier post.

There is also a lot you forget to mention, it was not a settlement, it was a penal colony....hardly natural inhabitants of the island. Still I dont see WHY argentina is making a fuss of it....its only two islands. Why are you so desperate to have it back?