mutation

i'd like to point out something about evolution that most people arguing against it simply don't realize...

ok, would everyone that has 1 or more genetic mutations please step forward?

everyone on ATS should be stepping forward here. we all have some sort of tiny mutations, genetic material that differs from our biological parents, just to let everyone here know.

Im alergic to outside skin of Banannas. I eat bananna peal and I blow up like a baloon. Dont ask me why I know this, but been hospitalised twice as a very young child. (Apparently most people arent Alergic to this, although Im not sure many people have tried it)

Does this count?

[edit on 2-9-2007 by SmokeyJo]

i'm no expert on genetics and how it relates to allergies... but it could be a genetic mutation

Originally posted by SmokeyJo
Im alergic to outside skin of Banannas. I eat bananna peal and I blow up like a baloon. Dont ask me why I know this, but been hospitalised twice as a very young child. (Apparently most people arent Alergic to this, although Im not sure many people have tried it)

Does this count?

That's interesting because I, too, have a type of allergic reaction when I eat a banana. Happens to me when I eat cucumbers too (and I love both of these!) My lips itch. That's got to qualify as a mutation...lol. I've got the itchy-lip mutation.

Originally posted by Valhall
That's interesting because I, too, have a type of allergic reaction when I eat a banana. Happens to me when I eat cucumbers too (and I love both of these!) My lips itch. That's got to qualify as a mutation...lol. I've got the itchy-lip mutation.

Wow, I have heard of something similar, called Tinea. Apparently you can get it from poorly cleansed shower floors.

Have you been licking 'poorly cleansed shower floors lately? or was it that you found the cucumber on a 'poorly cleansed shower floor'

[edit on 2-9-2007 by SmokeyJo]

shower floor?

Are we talking about the same lips? O_O

I'm not sure if I am correct about this (and there's a high possibility that I would be) but I always saw allergies as not so much a mutation but more the lack of one.

Human beings have a tendency of spreading throughout the world at great speed. In other words, our historical, political, social and financial past and present has led human kind into undergoing drastic changes of climate and even the very chemicals and substances contained in food and soil.

Add to that the fact that in our appetites we've imposed this migration on food itself (importing and exporting goods to places they are not native or even artificially cultivating them in places not of their origin).

Add to that the very changes that our current lifestyles impose not even on the environment but our organism itself and what I think we've found a least a big part the responsibility for most our allergies (and even perhaps a count of other deseases).

Still I think our ability to adapt is admirable - most animal species simple die out if their habitat changes even in the slight details such as temperature. We get ichy-lips and the sniffles.

Anyways that is my two cents on that.

As for the original topic - noticeable mutations - I think it is hard to answer. Aside from visible and physical alterations such as being born with wings or such these evolutionairy mutations would (I think) appear on a genetic level mostly. Hard to notice without extensive tests and solid past references.

An example occurs to me - it is often said that we've been getting taller each generation - just recently I was at an exhibit of public transportation vehicles of the previous centuries and this was obvious (and funny ). However, can this mutation be also explained by a greater interbreeding between different races?

Originally posted by Valhall
shower floor?

Are we talking about the same lips? O_O

Im sure we are, unless you can do the bananna splits!

reply to post by SmokeyJo


Well this thread is just going wherever the hell it wants to go, now isn't it?

[edit on 3/9/2007 by Thousand]

I guess the whole issue here is whether or not mutations on the cellular and molecular level are sufficient enough to prove evolution. Scientifically speaking, yes, small mutations are enough to prove evolution and natural selection on this scale. Take for instance one aspect of Evolutionary Biology, called Viral Evolution, which has created numerous problems for vaccine researchers over the years. In particular, Viruses that have a nucleic acid that is primarily RNA based lack the DNA Polymerase enzyme for viral replication and repair of DNA. This essentially means that when they enter the host cell for replication they require the DNA Polymerase to replicate and reform their original RNA structure. Fundamentally, because they require cellular DNA for this function they are, in principal, mutating each and every time they enter and exit a cell. Ergo in contrast, DNA based viruses have much longer mutation rates, as the polymerase is able to fix unstable DNA. What we see here is that most viruses are able to mutate and replicate successfully enough to adapt to whatever environmentally constrained conditions they are put in. This means that not only are they able to adapt and change to the environment, but are able to co-evolve along with the host. One very good indication that evolution happens all the time on the micro level is when we look at specific types of viruses and their interactions with human tissue. RNA based viruses like HIV overcome Immunological memory by mutating into slightly different variations of the same virus though change on their surface proteins each time they replicate. This process is done so efficiently and so often that the virus is literally able to evolve faster than the host organism itself...ie. there is the proof for the Theory of Evolution.

Interestingly enough we actually see proof of evolution at the cellular and molecular level easier than at the Macro level. Take for another example the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) and the Herpes Virus, which have effectively been traced back to primates. By comparing retroviral derived sequences in human and primate genomes we have seen that some viruses have evolved to suit their preference for certain types of tissue. This means that viral preference for tissue was established before humans split off from primates, and would also indicate a distinct relationship between the two species as these viruses only prefer interrelated tissue.

Bacterium are also small organisms that go through change and evolve to suit their environment. Two of the first forms of life on earth, Bacteria and Archaea have further subsets which divided into Eukaryotic and Prokaryotic cells. The Eukaryotic cells are of particular importance, because according to current evidence they actually evolved to the point where they were able to assimilate independant Prokaryotic cells into their organelle structure in the form of Mitochondria. Through the result of common endosymbiosis they have worked together as evolutionary partners at the cellular level. Evolution actually shows that the two were actually seperate organisms at one time with the Mitochondria being a prokaryotic proteobacterium. This can be supported because Mitochondrian DNA is completely seperate and different than the DNA found in the Nucleus, they have two membranes, and the ribosomes found in Mitochondria resemble those found in bacteria. Again, here we have two seperate organisms, supported by the fossil record, that have co-existed and evolved with each other to help fulfill common objectives.

Obviously, I use Viruses and Bacteria to describe how evolution can take place in an species without noticeable changes on the Human scale, and haven't yet started talking about noticeable human evolution. However, since these micro changes are what change the macro environment eventually it should be duely noted that Evolutionary changes in the viral, bacterial, or cellular level are enough to change a species over a given amount of time.

Now, with some of this information we can look at what the definition of a mutation is:

A permanent change, a structural alteration, in the DNA or RNA...Mutations are the necessary raw material of evolution.

Mutation: Medical Definition

Now, a look at the definition of evolution:

A developmental process in which an organ or organism becomes more and more complex by differentiation of its parts; a continuous and progressive change...

Evolution: Medical Definition

We can see that a common theme within the definitions of Evolution and Mutation is CHANGE. Mutations, which are described as a permanment change in DNA or RNA by the above definition, are necessary for evolution which can be characterized by the change in an organism. Studies conducted with Viruses and Bacteria as described previously have effectively proven that evolution and natural adaptation does occur. Whether it be Macro or Micro does not matter in this case, because if evolution can happen on either level then it can change the other.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by Jazzerman]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Hello.Ever since a few days ago I have been feeling and acting like a cross of a monkey, snake, and human. I have canniballistic urges, and constant screeching and want to climb trees and sunbathe. It's hard to walk upright. I like to crawl. I do not have a weird past, so could you guys on ATS please help. Possibly a genetic mutation?

reply to post by tootsie732


Not a mutation, you're just mental.

the avergae human generates around 4 new mutations within thier lifetime, some of these if mutated in the right cell type can be passed on

not to mention our genome is litteraly a big collections of dna mutations

so everyone should be have taken a step forward by now