Ron Paul Delegates prevented from vote in Texas straw poll, page 7

Originally posted by acmeartifacts
reply to post by Byrd

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Sorry what was your question?

Do you and the others have credentials showing that you were elected delegates who participated in a previous Republican Convention?

I only saw tickets. Both Ron Paul's site and the RNC site for Texas say that tickets aren't enough... you have to have credentials showing you are or were a prevously elected Official Delegate for the state Republican Party.


(for those of you who missed out on the fun of our politics here in Texas, politcking is a great sport. In order to vote at a Republican state convention, you have to belong to the party, show up at meetings, and get yourself nominated to a slate of delegate candidates (ya with me so far?) At the local conventions they vote for you as a delegate or alternate, and then you get to go to the state convention (and if you're lucky to the National convention.) The elected delegates are the only ones who vote in straw polls. Ain't politics fun?)

reply to post by Byrd

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With all due respect, you raise important questions. However, no one in that video is being questioned with the questions you have asked. Security certainly is not asking those very same questions. It would be good to know the answers to the questions you ask but the video does not shed light on this. Are security briefed of the details to the question you raise? Who knows. The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up? If they cannot get to a registration table that does not exist, how is it possible for them to know, let alone us, if they meet the criteria of the questions that you raise? The video at least makes it clear that those who were denied entrance did not even have recourse to clarify their situation.

reply to post by sp00n1

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Originally posted by sp00n1
The REAL letter clearly states that the registration begins at ten!!!!

Show me where.

I see a line that says
Presidential Straw Poll

and directly underneath it, I see a line that reads

Date & Time: Saturday, September 1, 2007 10:00AM


I would interpret that to mean the straw poll begins at 10:00 AM. Registration would have been beforehand.

Now, you can rant and rave all you want to, but the facts do not bear out what you are saying.

I am also waiting for an answer to Byrd's question.

reply to post by Areal51

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Originally posted by Areal51
The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up?

They were not on time. They were late for registration. How do I know this?

Delegates with appropriate badges were allowed in after 10:00AM, as seen on the tape.

The lady responsible for handing out badges left the building at approximately 10:00 AM, because registration had closed.

That is the only possible explanation.

Originally posted by Areal51
With all due respect, you raise important questions. However, no one in that video is being questioned with the questions you have asked. Security certainly is not asking those very same questions.

I've been (in my long and spotty career) security guard at science fiction conventions. Security's job isn't to answer registration questions... we don't have the data.

We have one mission: if they have the right badge, they can go in. If they don't, they can't come in (thoughtful guards tell them where to go for credentials but I *have* had an idiot (reporter) spend 30 minute screaming at me that his press credentials allowed both him and his camera in. I said "not without permission of the convention, sir" and stood my ground.

Once he got his credentials, I let him in. He marched in with a VERY rude and crude comment to me, which I ignored.

Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up? If they cannot get to a registration table that does not exist, how is it possible for them to know, let alone us, if they meet the criteria of the questions that you raise? The video at least makes it clear that those who were denied entrance did not even have recourse to clarify their situation.

That was what made me think they weren't elected delegates, but people who thought that if they paid $50 they could vote.

The elected delegates have been through this before. They go with their group of elected delegates from the area and if someone's late, the others come to fetch them. So... the local Dallas delegates would have carpooled together or taken a special bus, would have stayed at the same hotel, and would have senior delegates and other party officials to vouch for latecomers. Any latecomer would know the names of the local County Chairman (nobody was invoking those names), who could vouch for them.

Here's more about it from the Texas State Republican party:
www.texasgop.org...

The behavior of the group and the questions they asked made me think they had never been to a convention or caucus before, and that they had not been elected.

reply to post by shots

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Shots, it is not a phony letter. It is a printout from an online purchase. The only words and phrases covered up are:

Credentials... guest to... Location: Fort... Print this... Registration... Registration code... Please keep this...

There also is some receipt information at the bottom which is covered, but it is hardly containing the information that you are asking for.

The document is not a letter it is a message and receipt that was wisely printed out by the person it belongs to. It's his or her proof of purchase of an online transaction.


[edit on 2-9-2007 by Areal51]

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by Areal51

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Originally posted by Areal51
The bottom line is that those people are being denied for seemingly showing up on time according to the document shown in the video. Not only that, but their registration materials had already left the building before they showed up. How are they on time and late at the same time to pick up credentials and tickets which have been removed from the building prior to their arriving on time in order to be late to pick them up?

They were not on time. They were late for registration. How do I know this?

Delegates with appropriate badges were allowed in after 10:00AM, as seen on the tape.

The lady responsible for handing out badges left the building at approximately 10:00 AM, because registration had closed.

That is the only possible explanation.

Well, I know the same that you know. The difference is that you refuse to take into account that at least one person bearing their printed out message and receipt, their proof of purchase, has clearly been led to believe that the event starts at 10:00 AM, Saturday, September 1, 2007. I do not see a mention of Check-In or Registration Begins. Do you?

Ron Paul's campaign site has updated their blog:

The presence of Dr. Paul supporters dominated the straw poll site, and campaign leaders were pleased with the results in light of the difficult voting restrictions. Only recent party delegates were allowed to cast ballots, meaning that most of the thousands who turned out for Dr. Paul could cheer and celebrate but not vote. In addition, the straw poll was held several hours away from the Paul’s stronghold of south Texas.

That should clarify things if they haven't already been.

It's sad to see Ron Paul supporters go off the deep end. We already have to prove his ideas aren't completely crazy...we don't need people declaring war on the United States in threads flagged with his name.

reply to post by Areal51

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Yes, the event started at 10:00 AM. The straw poll.

Registration was prior to that. Nowhere does it state that registration begins at 10:00 AM.

From 10:00AM till 1PM? Probably speeches, procedures, etc.

1PM to 2PM - voting.

That's the way I see it.

Originally posted by Byrd

The elected delegates have been through this before. They go with their group of elected delegates from the area and if someone's late, the others come to fetch them. So... the local Dallas delegates would have carpooled together or taken a special bus, would have stayed at the same hotel, and would have senior delegates and other party officials to vouch for latecomers. Any latecomer would know the names of the local County Chairman (nobody was invoking those names), who could vouch for them.

Here's more about it from the Texas State Republican party:
www.texasgop.org...

The behavior of the group and the questions they asked made me think they had never been to a convention or caucus before, and that they had not been elected.

I see your point. It's a very good point and perhaps it is exactly the cause of the confusion. My remaining quibble is that at least the printout shown in the video makes it clear that at least one person has the information necessary to distinguish whether he or she is a delegate or not. I think that they would know that much, and if not, why on earth would he or she make a purchase as a delegate in order to be let in as a guest? That doesn't make any sense. The other question is, why would those unqualified be allowed to purchase tickets? Somewhere in the process there has to be a way to determine who is eligible to attend and vote at the event. It could be that all of the responsibility lies with the person purchasing the tickets, but the folks in the video seemed certain that their credentials and tickets should have been available to pick up at the event. Those who believed themselves to be delegates would be under the same impression. Even the printout makes it clear that those items would not be mailed.

What's clear, and we may never get to the bottom of this, is that there was a breakdown in communication.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

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According to Ron Paul's own website he's pleased with his third place finish...

When Dr. Paul feel's he's being disenfranchised, he let's his supporters know it. This is not the case.

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