All foul language isn't created equal. There's a clear difference between gratuitous lowlife trashtalk and emphases of passionate, (at least) reasonably intelligent points. As long as one isn't spewing pornographic or other plainly mindless filth, I say ALL colloquisms should be allowed on sites like these... And I believe the reason why there are a lot of brilliant, beautiful minds on ATS, yet this place is still toothless as far as real political influence, is because there ain't enough fire in the collective belly here to penetrate the deafened-by-BS ears. Thank you.

You're welcome.
A lot of brilliant minds are contained in the heads of young people.
And you're right, there is a difference between gratuitous foul language,
and using those very same words to make a point.

A lot of those same minds are capable of conjuring up words and phrases that contain no profanity, due to an above average command of language.
You can say the same thing, WITH all the passion, WITHOUT the profanity, if you try hard enough.

Then there is the issue of the defining where that line is, between the acceptable, and the unacceptable. That line moves, from time to time.
Who monitors the line? Who gets to define when it's been crossed?
Sounds like a constant source of disagreement..

Next comes the arguments about not WHAT was said, but HOW it was put.
And the SUBJECT is lost in the shuffle.

It's not worth it.

I agree whole-heartedly, except for the last part. In fact, I completely disagree on that sentiment. The reason being, when people get very fired up, it's easy to lose your cool. It's easy to start posting emotional responses, not sticking to the facts. This completely derails the topic, as emotion is responded too with a higher priority than facts or actual argument.

For instance, if I walked up to an African American and said, "excuse me, **SNIP**, could you tell me what came first, the chicken or the egg?" How do you think he's going to answer the philosophical side of that question? I'd bet that he doesn't even bother indulging my query, but instead hits me.

To be PC, I'll give this gentlemen the benefit of a doubt, and assume he would just walk away, not starting a fight.

But the reality of the situation, at least on forums, is that 9 times out of 10, that kind of situation would result in a fight. The emotional, hot headed insults easily cascade into a blow by blow, post reply and post, cycle that only ends when one person says **SNIP** and stops replying (which usually doesn't happen for at least several cycles.) This completely derails a topic, and given enough people read it, inevitably reignites when a new poster inflames either of the parties, or viewers, which starts the cycle over again.

I think that's why insults and foul language are banned, but did you see what I did in the middle of the paragraph above this one? I think this is the correct usage of swear words, and beyond that, I was quoting a source, so hopefully I don't get banned for this post

Hope this helps

MOD NOTE: Remember, no foul language, no circumvention of censors.

[edit on 1-9-2007 by electronQM]

[edit on 1-9-2007 by electronQM]

[edit on 1-9-2007 by spacedoubt]

We have folks that are young on these boards.

Profanity is not needed for civil discussion if you are typing profanity then you have had time to choose your words.

Originally posted by Lightworth
All foul language isn't created equal. There's a clear difference between gratuitous lowlife trashtalk and emphases of passionate, (at least) reasonably intelligent points. As long as one isn't spewing pornographic or other plainly mindless filth, I say ALL colloquisms should be allowed on sites like these... And I believe the reason why there are a lot of brilliant, beautiful minds on ATS, yet this place is still toothless as far as real political influence, is because there ain't enough fire in the collective belly here to penetrate the deafened-by-BS ears. Thank you.

Why not learn to use the English language properly? Learn to spell and how to make a coherent sentence. Then, you might consider making your point by using a logical argument, and providing some support or a citation.

You couldn't even do it in this post and it's only 4-5 sentences long.



But, seriously, it's because, if for no other reason, it helps keep ATS from being banned by filtering software.

Good to see you here. Just remember, just as there is no crying in Baseball, there's no whining on ATS. (teasing).

Interestingly, there are quite a number of members here whose names are actually profanity in another language. But I suppose it's fine since people who don't know, won't know.

Originally posted by Lightworth
...yet this place is still toothless as far as real political influence, is because there ain't enough fire in the collective belly here to penetrate the deafened-by-BS ears.

How is profanity going to solve this issue? If ATS wants to have more political ambition as a whole they should do it by analyzing issues and discussing these rationally. What politician or political group gets anything accomplished by using profanity as a means to evoke an emotional response? Profanity laced speech is meant to offend no matter how you look at it, and has no place in civil discussion. I for one would be highly insulted if profanity was allowed on these boards, as ATS has always held a respectably high standard compared to other interent forums.

Besides, if it were allowed I think we all know that some members of this board would relish the opportunity to go into profanity laced tirades that add little to the actual discussion.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Interestingly, there are quite a number of members here whose names are actually profanity in another language. But I suppose it's fine since people who don't know, won't know.

Then the complaint function should be used and staff informed of this.

I personally don't read anything but english, so I would never notice it.

The words a man chooses to use, show the measure of respect he has for others. Those who NEED to use foul language, demonstrate not only a lack of respect for others, but a lack of intellect as well.

The English language is fully capable of expressing a wide variety of concepts in great detail and full of nuance, without the need to resort to swearing. I speak a few languages and have never felt unable to express myself clearly. Utilizing lowbrow expressions to add emphasis, is the hallmark of the undereducated.

ATS holds a high standard because it is a quality site, not simply a bunch of poor souls ranting at the world. Maintaining a level of decorum only demonstrates community respect, as well as respect for those from outside who may drift in. It has nothing to do with censorship as you are fully able to express your thoughts and views here while maintaining a civilised behavior.

You would be better to put your efforts into adding meaningful, quality, content to the site rather than complaining about not being able to act childish and swearing.

I've managed to make very passionate and strong posts with the strongest words used being "hell" and "christ". I even have yelled and argued with members without resorting to profanity. It's hard when you lose your temper, but it can be done. There is no reason to use profanity of any kind on here. Personally with all the swearing I do driving, and I listen to on the road it's kind of refreshing to come on here.

If this site were riddled with profanity I would not be here. Restraint, responsibility, and respect ..... good motto for us all.

A conversation peppered with vulgarity offends me. Leads me to think the person wasn't raised in a respectful environment.

I do tolerate, use and overlook some profanity when a toe is busted, a thumb hammered or .... well....you get the picture.

Thank you MODS for your stand on this issue.

Isn't it ironic that we are forced to censor ourselves, in order for our message to be heard? I think these filters are totally bogus. They protect kids and employers, not the users on this board. I can't wait for more rules to be ushered in, the next time society decides to shift its PC weight. Like after 9/11, when questioning the government made you unpatriotic.

You know who the real patriots of this country are? Not the soldiers fighting in Iraq, but the citizens brave enough to say "We don't belong over there!" and held onto that position, even when it was unpopular.

Another unpopular belief is that swear words make a difference in how this community functions. Some people want you to believe that we can't function when we hear these four-letter-assassins! Let me tell you something, we've endured much worse. Our species has endured much worse. We evolved in a life cycle of misery, danger, disease, and garbage. Not 200 years ago your not-so-distant forefather was living in a log cabin, hunting wild game, eating whatever he could, then packing the rest in salt as a preservative. To say that we can't bare the sight of four-letter-words is ludicrous.

Some of the users will tell you that our forums will dissolve, if the users are given even a taste free speech. As if we're not equipped to handle that knowledge. The same people tell you that the users of ATS will go mad with power, throwing the four-letter-words into every nook and cranny available. We know the people who would abuse a free system -- they are the same people who abuse our more bound, censored system. If they government wanted to stop gun crimes, would passing a law to ban firearms stop the criminals from getting them?

Does restricting a legitimate users account stop trolls from posting bogus stories, or linking a tinyurl to goatse? Those problems have to be dealt with individually, not through sweeping rules that restrict the words we're allowed to say.

I have a lot of respect for Skepticoverlord, spacedoubt, umbrax, and all the other moderators, who's job it is to patrol this board like a cop on the beat. It takes a firm commitment to do that job, every day. I truly believe they are here for us, and I'm thankful for that. But the system is flawed. The swearing policy is a crime against free speech. I can only appeal to the moderator who sets the rules, Skepticoverlord, and the people of this board for change. If you really believe that we have to stop all four-letter-words, that we're not ready for swearing, because we're not adult enough, or that kids belong on these forums, then i'm the one who's out of place. I'll take my pardon and leave, as my account was already banned (see the third post on this thread), so I don't feel very welcomed here anyways.

Thanks

So you're saying that you can't get your message across without swearing at someone? I would think that the INFORMATION would get your message across a lot better than cussing them out. How is adding random four letter words going to increase the persuasiveness of your discussion? I know that for me personally I'm LESS likely to read posts that involve name calling and insults, than I am to read a well thought out well written post.

Originally posted by NotelectronQM
I have a lot of respect for Skepticoverlord, spacedoubt, umbrax, and all the other moderators,

If that were true you would respect and understand the policy and move on rather than "making a scene".

Originally posted by NotelectronQM
Isn't it ironic that we are forced to censor ourselves,

To say that we can't bare the sight of four-letter-words is ludicrous.

... if the users are given even a taste free speech. ...

The swearing policy is a crime against free speech.

Ummm... since when is swearing "speech"?

It's nothing more that a refusal to use the reasoning centers of your brain to make a cogent passionate argument and appeal to the older more primitive brain areas that control emotion.

How many world leaders do you hear swearing at the podium? How many University professors need to swear to get their point across (rather than trying to "be cool")?

Swearing is free speech?

Maybe to a knuckle-dragging mouth breather but not to any civilized educated person who has his primitive emotions under some semblance of control.


.

Hello,

I am new here ( registered less than a week ago, and lurked for a month or two prior to that )

I just wanted to voice my opinion that this is really not a censorship matter in the least.

You are not being censored. If you were being censored it would feel a lot like late 1980's China. Journalists being shot and killed or imprisioned - no free speech except for what the government lets be free.

On this board, you are allowed to FREELY SPEAK about ANYTHING, save for a couple of topics. ( personal drug use comes to mind )

You can voice ANY opnion you want, on ANY topic you want, make as little sense as you want, ridacule KNOWN facts and science to please yourself, call the pope an ALIEN GOAT FROM EXCOPRATUS PRIME, show our sitting president less respect than Michael Vick shows dogs, make wild claims with very little or no evidence.

All this site asks are a very few things:

DO NOT SPAM - LIE - HOAX
DO NOT ATTACK FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS
DO NOT TALK ABOUT ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES
DO NOT TYPE IS ALL CAPS (SORRY )
DO NOT PLAGERIZE
DO NOT SWEAR

So, in essence, you may start a thread that reads

I think the President and the Pope and the British prime minister are all satan lovers that like to touch themselves on the third wednesday of the month, and they don't pay their electric bill either. i have no proof, just a feeling

And as long as you can make a valid point in this thread, it will not be removed.

Thats a lot a freedom and very little restaint.

Dorian





[edit on 1-9-2007 by Dorian Soran]

In my opinion this is a wonderful place for young people to see civil, intellegent conservation. I have suggested this site to my children and grandchildren. Would rather the young ones be here than on other popular sites that allow profanity and descriptive language concerning sex that has led to unsafe activity of some of the site members.

Nothing happens without first being an idea. Brovo to this site for possibily opening up a young persons mind to endless creative thoughts.

Through electronics, by the time a child is 8 yrs or even younger he/she has already fought many galatic battles, joined the Army, had a family, been in a gang, flown many combat hours, and most anything you can imagine. Ha, this site may actually seem tame to the younger generation.

Long live civility, imagination, and exploration.

I can't believe that such intelligent people as ATS members would rather discuss or debate the use of profanity on ATS rather than the many other important thread topics. I'm really disappointed.