Looking at Google map there is about 10 X 10 miles of bomb dumps, and there also could be a nuclear depot of tactical nukes too, so that might be what is driving the no pictures rule that John encountered.

the x2 post monster strikes again :0


[edit on 4-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

As I read through these pages I must be missing something. What I have seen is that somebody presented an idea, a theory if you will and basically said "Here is something to think about, and here is what lead me to this train of thought." For some reason there are some of you that are acting as though a claim of difinative proof were made and we should have no other choice than to accept it as truth. It is something to think about, research and look into. By all means present your findings either positive or negative, but ease up a little. It was just something to ponder and look at with interest, no definate claims of existance were made.

John there can't be a submarine base under the Nevada desert.

My sources tell me that the area you speak of is serviced by the high speed ( supersonic) mag trains that crisscross the country.


Note to moderator;

Delete or ban me if you must but can we bring little common sense to this stuff.

Firt he states there is an atmosphere on the moon and now this.

Common guys, get a grip.

After following this thread I just had to chime in. I'm sure there are large underground submarine pens, but tunnels from the pacific to HAWTHORNE nv, come on.
The geology of california is well studied, are ALL of the geologists in on it.
The san joaquin valley is a closing oceanic trench that is filled several thousand feet deep with sediments from the erroding sierra nevada mountains, thought by some geologists to be the one of the oldest mountain ranges on the planet. The aquifer that lies below the SJ valley goes only so deep and it is not a giant underground lake, it is more like a bucket of sand filled with water. There are literally hundreds of water wells that are thousands of feet deep here, the deepest being over 5000 feet deep.
As a primary oil extraction area the underlying geology has been extremely well mapped, I dont think you could hide an underground cave system large enough to navigate a nuclear sub through.
There is no way a tunnel could be constructed from the ocean to the nev desert with out any body noticing it, the largest construction project of mankinds history. You'd have to tunnel through the 80-100 miles of granite that make up the sierras, or you could just go the 10 MILES down to get under neath them, again I say COME ON.
The navy has their underwater demolition school there because Hawthore is where ALL of the navys ordinance is stored and has been stored since WWII.
When I was in Hawthorne last fall there were dozens of recreational boats on the lake, and its a very shallow lake I was told it averages 40' with its deepest point being around 80'. Hardly deep enough to operate a nuclear submarine. With all of the civilian fishing traffic it would be impossible to hide an underwater entrance from all of the fishing sonars.
I have spent time in Hawthorne and there is nothing creepy about it other than the people who spend all night in the casino. Its just a small town in the middle of nowhere, the very reason for the ammo depot, it was out of range for any japanese attack during WWII.
After 9/11 you will get shooed away from taking pictures at any US military base, you cant even take pictures of the municipal airport here because it has a National guard squadron.
There were witnesses to the scorpion incident, fishermen who saw the "boil" from the underwater explosions. Its my belief that both the thresher and scorpion incidents were in fact confrontations between the US and USSR, that were kept quiet, because losing a submarine is not worth ending the world for.
Well thats my rant

Originally posted by punkinworks

There were witnesses to the scorpion incident, fishermen who saw the "boil" from the underwater explosions. Its my belief that both the thresher and scorpion incidents were in fact confrontations between the US and USSR, that were kept quiet, because losing a submarine is not worth ending the world for.
Well thats my rant

Thanks for your rant punkinworks. I don't think you read the thread very carefully but nevertheless your comments are appreciated. Thanks.

Originally posted by trivialsublime

John there can't be a submarine base under the Nevada desert.

There can't? Shoot. There goes that theory.

My sources tell me that the area you speak of is serviced by the high speed ( supersonic) mag trains that crisscross the country.

I agree. The same Navy underground transportation system which socalsonly alleges does not exist goes a lot of places. The transportation system does not go as deep as the Pacific Ocean so the only thing the transportation system would have to worry about would be the elevators that go down from NUWC to sea level. All underground construction is carefully coordinated so that there is no conflict between one project and another.

Thanks for the post and your comments they are much appreciated.

Just an aside, or confirmation. anyone remember the tunneling machines that built the "chunnel"? Those were publicly known and shown. That they were used mainly to churn through chalk beds doesn't mean that the normal technology hasn't progressed to a higher level, in fact, I would bet on it. But though I have no problem envisioning a system from Nellis, or Dreamland extending to Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Southern Idaho, I still have trouble seeing how the system could pass under the Sierras and through the faults, especially a system large enough to pass a sub. Any good sized quake along the route would expose the system.

Ok here's something odd, I have a friend that is a retired US navy Commander with a masters degree in mech eng. When he retired he went to work for the company that builds the largest tunnel boring machines.

Interesting.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
no Stellar , the brush is just fine .

I have debunked dozens of debunkers but i have NEVER claimed that all debunking to be a fool's exercise. If you can not understand why i take offense to your earlier claim ( "these internet conspiracy theories") then i suppose i am going to have to explain it at length.

question is , why are you more concerned about my " broad brush " than the nonsense it refuted ?

Because you are attempting to ridicule the entire website instead of a particular thread in it.

if the people behind thies theories preformed the most rudimentary resaeach they would realise for them selves that thier theory did not hold water < pun >

And if educated intelligent people such as yourself spent less time defending obvious lies you would gain the trust of the morons and ignorants that sometimes buys into these ( and i don't think this one is all that far fetched) claims without doing any fact checking. In a culture where establishment credibility can propagate the most stupidest of lies we should expect great swaths of society to reject the formal processes they supposedly employ and go off on their own self serving daydreaming.

the ATS motto is deny ignorance

And i am not altogether sure that you have done more harm than good by protecting the same old establishment nonsense. Luckily for you this is a opinion and i would not mind being wrong.

in this thread ignorance is being lauded , why is that ?

I don't think ignorance is being lauded and i think you and a few other people have raised very specific and worthy objections to many of the claims made. This is as it should be but you must excuse me when i have absolutely no sympathy for those who defend the establishment line that does in fact occasionally correspond to observed reality; it's hard to know if it's plain luck or just more of the same.

i am attepting to redress the balance , what are you doing ?

I think what i have posted speaks to what i am attempting to do the same what your posts speaks for you. I will let others judge and i suggest you do the same while we both do our best to have more patience with the human product of a sane but inhuman educational, social and political regime.

Stellar

Originally posted by johnlear

The same Navy underground transportation system which socalsonly alleges does not exist goes a lot of places.

John you really are a conspiracy master! However, don't insult me by twisting my input within your own thread to your advantage. I suggest that you carefully read my reply one more time:

"I'm not sure the "tube" lingo is actually being used in the context that my experience derives from. I've worked/visited underground installations/facilitieson numerous occasions, and a few have been equipped with "tube transport" systems, but it didn't strike me as anything unusual or advanced. Have you ever taken an underground tram from one airport concourse to another? , As far as the "history" behind our nation's underground transportation networks, who knows. I've only been a passenger not a part of the engineering firm."

Then I posted another reply to you; it stated:

John, no one possesses a world-wide system. Please recognize something here; I’m not claiming to know everything, but I’m confident; at this point, our nation hasn’t exercised any contracts geared towards delivering that level of subterranean engineeringYes; some subterranean work has been completed, but none of those accomplishments would blow your mind. Furthermore, I guarantee there are no escalators underneath the Point Loma Submarine Base or within the hillside of Ballast Point. There are only two subterranean areas located there; both are related to the era of Fort Rosecrans: Battery Point Loma and Battery Gillespie. For the most part, they are used for munitions storage, but that’s about it. However, they do possess an inspiring history.

Tell me John; how did ever surmise that I'm allegding they don't exist?

I was warned not to enage this site, but I figured I could assist with your questions.

Originally posted by socalsonly

Tell me John; how did ever surmise that I'm allegding they don't exist?

I was warned not to enage this site, but I figured I could assist with your questions.

Thanks for your post socalsonly and I can appreciate the problems with which you have found yourself.

As you will recall you appeared here to bless us with the usual Navy yadda yadda about Thresher and Scorpion. At the completion of your professional and informed albeit fanciful explanation you asked if there were any questions. I submitted three.

The first one concerned the Navy transportation system referred to as the 'tubes'. The ‘tubes’ to which I am referring is a specific mode of transportation and is not generic to underground airport tramways or munitions storage areas.

I neglected to determine whether or not you were Navy or just employed in a PR/information containment capacity. I assumed that since you joined on the day of your first post and your first post was on my thread that you were sent to clarify/refute information being posted. If you were not Navy then you would not know what I was talking about. Which apparently you don’t. And I am not going to put you on the spot.

Please accept my sincere apologies for asking you questions without assuring myself that you had access to the actual information I was asking.

Please accept my further sincere apologies for stating that you alleged they don’t exist when in fact it would be questionable whether in fact you knew they existed in the first place or that if you did you would admit to it anyway.

Welcome again to ATS.

Originally posted by johnlear

I can appreciate the problems with which you have found yourself.

What problem? I don't consider this to be a problem at all. I learned at an early age to present information based upon facts; you know, having the ability to back it up. However, in your case, it seems like the ideas you often bring to the table spawn from hearsay - you see, I know this guy and he told me.."blah, blah, blah" That's fine, it's fun to talk about.

As you will recall you appeared here to bless us with the usual Navy yadda yadda about Thresher and Scorpion.

Your welcome. During the course of my military service, including both USMC and USN, I earned the privilege to study unique events and learn from respected individuals. Therefore, when I discovered this thread, I felt that I could share some insight. I should've asked first. "Excuse me Mr. Lear, is it ok with you, if I share my thoughts too?"

At the completion of your professional and informed albeit fanciful explanation you asked if there were any questions.

Well, taking the time to present information professionaly is most often appreciated by the reader. And, extending the opportunity for questions is just plain courtesy.

The ‘tubes’ to which I am referring is a specific mode of transportation and is not generic to underground airport tramways or munitions storage areas.

OK, if you say so; I respect your beliefs.

I assumed that since you joined on the day of your first post and your first post was on my thread that you were sent to clarify/refute information being posted.

Sent?! Come on John, you really expect people to believe that?! I didn't join ATS to refute anything. Sure, I might disagree with a members posted feedback, but I'm not here to "rock your boat". I respect peoples opinions.

I neglected to determine whether or not you were Navy or just employed in a PR/information containment capacity.

Well, now you know. By the way, I thought ATS was "public" relations. If not, then what is it John?

If you were not Navy then you would not know what I was talking about. Which apparently you don’t.

Maybe I don't know what you're talking about, but are you kidding me? 99.99999% of the world, much less our military personnel, have any idea as to what you TALK about! Well, except for the ones that YOU know. As a matter of fact, unlike myself and other ATS readers, most don't care. I'm sorry, but that was pretty arrogant John. Did your old CIA contacts give you that attitude?

Please accept my sincere apologies for asking you questions without assuring myself that you had access to the actual information I was asking.

I forgive you; although, the apology wasn't necessary.

Please accept my further sincere apologies for stating that you alleged they don’t exist when in fact it would be questionable whether in fact you knew they existed in the first place or that if you did you would admit to it anyway.

Once again, your forgiven. And, your right, but I'm not gonna' beat a dead horse over it.

Welcome again to ATS.

Thank you sir; that means a lot, because you make me feel welcomed. I knew you were a cool guy. Waddya' say we go get a beer!

Originally posted by socalsonly

Thank you sir; that means a lot, because you make me feel welcomed. I knew you were a cool guy. Waddya' say we go get a beer!

Sounds good to me. Acey Duecy?


p.s. You might want to reconsider posting so much in bold. Its considered poor form because its looks like you are yelling.

People lets not forget this thread came from the guy who said holographic projecters were responsible for the 2 planes on 9/11


JRA and Defcon made some good points that were well explained, and if John doesnt want to give aus a link to where makinnon (the hacker) said that he saw a black secret space station, well that says it all really

What black secret space station?

I have'nt heard of that one.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

People lets not forget this thread came from the guy who said holographic projecters were responsible for the 2 planes on 9/11

Thanks Fett Pinkus for the reminder and to those folks who don't know what Fett is talking about I believe that there is a possibility that the planes that crashed into the World Tade Center may have been holographs.

Holograph techonolgy is many years advanced to where people think it is. Most think of holographs as a vague three dimensional image in a darkened room using several projectors with smoke or fog used to project the image on. In fact when hearing about the 'WTC holograph theory" they start ranting, "But I saw it on TV!" or "My friend was there. She saw it in the sky!"

These folks cannot even conceive of the level of holographic projection or the sound that goes along with it. "But I HEARD it", they complain.

Current holographic technology can place a solid object, indistinguishable from the real thing, stationary or in motion, anywhere, anytime. This includes,an airplane, an air force, a building, a city, a mountain, an attack of flying saucers from outer space. Anything.

I respectfully request you do not derail this thread with your comments on Holograph technology. Either U2 me or start a thread. Thanks.

Along the road here is a curious sign stating: U S Navy Centroid Facility
With an arrow pointing off to a cluster of buildings out in the desert. What I ask myself, What could a Centroid be? I turned off 50 onto old 50 which climbs steeply on a narrow road over the Desatoya Mountains. Old 50 has very little traffic, is in good condition, and runs from near Middle Gate to Austin. It is an excellent road bike route, quite scenic and nearly free of traffic.

US Naval Centroid Facility in Nevada?