Immigration Nightmare

I think most if not all of the problems with migration are of the pro-border clampdown crowd's (probably unintentional) making. Look at it this way-the problems mainly cluster around the burden that illegal immigrants place on social services. Simply put, they take out more than they put in. The immigrants heavy dependence on social services is primarily due to their low incomes, and their low incomes is primarily due to the fact that they have to be paid under the table and employers who are willing to do this will only do so if they can pay the immigrants next-to-nothing. They need a financial incentive to justify the risk of hiring undocumented workers. If we gave legal status to everyone who wanted to move to America, with the exception of terrorists or major criminals, I do not think we would have the problem of lots of people living in the shadows and living off of welfare.

I don't buy for one minute that the illegal immigrants just want to be Americans.Not when I see them at local stores sending thousands of dollors to Mexico and then buying all there food with food stamps.I tired of paying out my hard earned money just to see 14yr old mexican girls driving $30,000 SUV's,stopping at gas stations to get change for $100 bills.If you think I'm overstating fact u2u me I'll give you directions so you can see for your self

[edit on 6-9-2007 by deadcatsrule]

reply to post by Godruigez


And...now work with me here...Just because you disagree with our opinions and have expressed it oh so colorfully...doesn't mean you have actually laid out a case that is logically or rationally pro-immigration.

We have given you every opportunity to participate maturely in this debate but sadly you have not taken it.

I dare to suggest you are just trolling ATS to push your agenda because you appear to be satisified with mockery and insults as a form of commincation. Your location profile is very telling as well.

Its really too bad... because you have missed an opportunity to serve your people well and change some minds. Instead, all you did was make everyone reading this thread who might have been on the fence (no pun intended!) regarding this issue question it even further. Lucky us!

Yes, this seems to be a very big problem latley. I do think something needs to be done. We just do not have that much more room. If you do not think so take a trip to Colorado. It is so frikin over populated(which is such a shame such a beautiful state). I just think if Mexico is so bad they need to do something to fix it. They can not run from their problems. They are a strong, sometimes friendly people, they can take care of their own. I do admit I do not know a whole lot about what is going on right now and have not read all the reponses as yet. I just know some strange things are going on. This is a good thread topic. I just know some of these illegal immigrants are pretty scary (not all just the ones I have met). At times I was scared for my life. Everyone just seems so bitter latley. Well anyway good post. Who knows....

[edit on 6-9-2007 by paigcal]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
If we gave legal status to everyone who wanted to move to America, with the exception of terrorists or major criminals, I do not think we would have the problem of lots of people living in the shadows and living off of welfare.

How the hell can you possibly guarantee anyone,if we maintain the open border policy, that terrorists won't get in? You Can't!!You see, this issue about the border goes so far beyond the Mexican subject for me that it's not even funny.

If they are getting across our border with ease, who else is? Hmmm? Really, the whole stance of "let's just keep open borders" is beyond stupid.

I think the burden of proof is on the crackdown crowd to demonstrate that America somehow can't handle 400 million people. We've got ~320 million now and the greatest standard of living the world has ever seen, with the exception of perhaps Switzerland. Furthermore, Europe, which has a high to decent standard of living, depending on the country, is only slightly larger than the United States but has a population of 710 million.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I think the burden of proof is on the crackdown crowd to demonstrate that America somehow can't handle 400 million people. We've got ~320 million now and the greatest standard of living the world has ever seen, with the exception of perhaps Switzerland. Furthermore, Europe, which has a high to decent standard of living, depending on the country, is only slightly larger than the United States but has a population of 710 million.

You have got to be joking me!! The "burden of proof" is upon those who are talking sensibly about this subject? Really?

If you don't realize that a country can become over populated, then there is something wrong. Either:

(A) You are in denial and just want to practice some "feel good policy," in regards to immigration.

or

(B) You just don't understand the concept of supply and demand.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


You're not anywhere close to demonstrating your hypothesis is correct until you can explain away why Europe has such a great standard of living.

Originally posted by paigcal
Yes, this seems to be a very big problem latley. I do think something needs to be done. We just do not have that much more room. If you do not think so take a trip to Colorado. It is so frikin over populated(which is such a shame such a beautiful state). I just think if Mexico is so bad they need to do something to fix it. They can not run from their problems. They are a strong, sometimes friendly people, they can take care of their own. I do admit I do not know a whole lot about what is going on right now and have not read all the reponses as yet. I just know some strange things are going on. This is a good thread topic. I just know some of these illegal immigrants are pretty scary (not all just the ones I have met). At times I was scared for my life. Everyone just seems so bitter latley. Well anyway good post. Who knows....

[edit on 6-9-2007 by paigcal]

You fear for your life being around us? Wow. That's hilarious. I guess things will continue to get worse for Chicanos when people like you live in fear of us. How long before you consider us terrorists? What kind of life must you have going around scared all the time?

Originally posted by Godruigez


You fear for your life being around us? Wow. That's hilarious. I guess things will continue to get worse for Chicanos when people like you live in fear of us. How long before you consider us terrorists? What kind of life must you have going around scared all the time?

How about those MS13 morons? Are they not already "terrorists"?

reply to post by slackerwire


Group condemnation never works. Are we to say that the whites are beyond redemption because of the skinhead movement?

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Godruigez


You fear for your life being around us? Wow. That's hilarious. I guess things will continue to get worse for Chicanos when people like you live in fear of us. How long before you consider us terrorists? What kind of life must you have going around scared all the time?

How about those MS13 morons? Are they not already "terrorists"?

What about the "Aryan Brotherhood". Aren't they terrorists too? Come on, be real. I've seen Neo-Nazi's with Racist tattoos before and it didn't scare me. They are proud of their Aryan heritage . I don't have a problem with it as long as they don't get violent. Just cuz you saw a documentary about gang members doesn't mean we are all violent thugs. Chicanos aren't violent unless we have to be. Just like most other men in this country. Hold your head up and show respect and you should never have a problem with us.
If you have a Chicano neighbor, it's ok to borrow sugar from them. They won't kill you. Call him a beaner or an "Illegal" and you might have problems.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
reply to post by slackerwire

 

Group condemnation never works. Are we to say that the whites are beyond redemption because of the skinhead movement?

I wasn't condemning all hispanics because of MS13.

Illegal aliens are in fact an invading force, and as such, they could be considered terrorists. Same goes for the groups that support them such as Mecha, La Raza, the Brown Berets, LULAC, etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Godruigez




What about the "Aryan Brotherhood". Aren't they terrorists too? Come on, be real. I've seen Neo-Nazi's with Racist tattoos before and it didn't scare me. They are proud of their Aryan heritage . I don't have a problem with it as long as they don't get violent. Just cuz you saw a documentary about gang members doesn't mean we are all violent thugs. Chicanos aren't violent unless we have to be. Just like most other men in this country. Hold your head up and show respect and you should never have a problem with us.
If you have a Chicano neighbor, it's ok to borrow sugar from them. They won't kill you. Call him a beaner or an "Illegal" and you might have problems.

Saw on a documentary? Sorry son, I live in Las Vegas, and we have more than our fair share of MS13 idiots here.

What if that neighbor were in fact an illegal, should one refrain from calling him such?

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Godruigez




What about the "Aryan Brotherhood". Aren't they terrorists too? Come on, be real. I've seen Neo-Nazi's with Racist tattoos before and it didn't scare me. They are proud of their Aryan heritage . I don't have a problem with it as long as they don't get violent. Just cuz you saw a documentary about gang members doesn't mean we are all violent thugs. Chicanos aren't violent unless we have to be. Just like most other men in this country. Hold your head up and show respect and you should never have a problem with us.
If you have a Chicano neighbor, it's ok to borrow sugar from them. They won't kill you. Call him a beaner or an "Illegal" and you might have problems.

Saw on a documentary? Sorry son, I live in Las Vegas, and we have more than our fair share of MS13 idiots here.

What if that neighbor were in fact an illegal, should one refrain from calling him such?

Call him one at your own risk. If a person wants trouble, I guess he will find it. Why not try to be friends with your neighbors? I really think it is only a matter of time before Chicanos are all labeled terrorists . Good luck trying to put us all in Gitmo.

Originally posted by Godruigez

Call him one at your own risk. If a person wants trouble, I guess he will find it. Why not try to be friends with your neighbors? I really think it is only a matter of time before Chicanos are all labeled terrorists . Good luck trying to put us all in Gitmo.

Why would I want to befriend a criminal (aka illegal alien)?

reply to post by Godruigez

Godruigez, I do not think you understood me correctly. But anyways I do not think I phrased that right. My friend was brutally raped and I have had some pretty interesting(scary) nights. I do not have fear of your people. You sound like you are bitter and a little hateful. I do hope I am wrong. Sometimes I do say things before I think about them.

I waited over 10 years in the immigration line of back log and processing times and paid over 25k, yes, TWENTY-FIVE thousand dollars in lawyers fees to immigrate here LEGALLY from Indonesia where chinese are being discriminated for their religion and race by the native muslims.

In the process, I must PROOF to the INS that I have NEVER been illegal here, paid taxes. PROOF to the Labor Dept. that I am "qualified" and indeed are of value to the USA which I think I am with 3 degrees and a Masters degree from Harvard.

And now you tell me those who comes from mexico with NO skills but a loud demanding mouth can get citizenship for free and their family can come along too?

My blood boils. We already paid for their welfare, etc, and allowing illegal immigrants to be citizens might just push me and many who did things the right way, the hard way, over the edge.

Originally posted by paigcal
reply to post by Godruigez

 

Godruigez, I do not think you understood me correctly. But anyways I do not think I phrased that right. My friend was brutally raped and I have had some pretty interesting(scary) nights. I do not have fear of your people. You sound like you are bitter and a little hateful. I do hope I am wrong. Sometimes I do say things before I think about them.

Sometimes I am bitter and sometimes I feel a little hateful, like most other people here. It's called human emotion. You, just sound ignorant. Just cuz your friend got raped by a Chicano, does not mean we are all rapists. I can't even believe I have to make that statement. Are you 12 years old?

As far as people here that say that they wouldn't want to be friends with a Chicano because we are criminals is just silly. Generalizations are just plain dumb. I'm really not as bitter as you think. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see bitterness. There is plenty to go around on this thread.

Originally posted by Godruigez

Sometimes I am bitter and sometimes I feel a little hateful, like most other people here. It's called human emotion. You, just sound ignorant. Just cuz your friend got raped by a Chicano, does not mean we are all rapists. I can't even believe I have to make that statement. Are you 12 years old?

As far as people here that say that they wouldn't want to be friends with a Chicano because we are criminals is just silly. Generalizations are just plain dumb. I'm really not as bitter as you think. Take a look in the mirror if you want to see bitterness. There is plenty to go around on this thread.

Perhaps you should take a reading comprehension class, I never said all hispanics are criminals (although they do commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to their percentage of the population), I said ILLEGALS were criminals.