Mexican Trucks Begin Crossing Border Saturday

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posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Flyer


Lots of people in this thread seem intent on stopping Mexican trucks rather than bringing them up to American standards.

[edit on 31-8-2007 by Flyer]


Why should they be allowed to enter this country? Why? You say we should bring them up to American standards. What do you mean? How is it OUR responsibility to make sure that another country regulates companies? You see, this is just another example of why America should have an isolationist mindset. The rest of the world seems to think it's incumbent upon the U.S to make sure "everything runs smoothly" for others... :shk:




posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Mystery_Lady
 


I'm at work but I have some time. Let's take a look at what you have asked for.


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Are all the companies that are going to be allowed into the US from Mexico in these statistics? If not, how many are left out, and what are there stats?


No because they cannot create statistics based on events that have not happened yet. Once this pilot program is through its testing phase, the numbers for 2008 will show performance. Really, it is almost impossible to acquire statistics based on future events. The best that can be done is look at the statistics from previous years, look for a trend or pattern, then base a projection on the trend or pattern that is detected.


How would the Mexico numbers really look if the the US numbers were really scaled down to size so to speak?


All you have to do is calculate percentages. You do know how to do that, right? Which numbers in specific anyway?


Would the actual percentage for Mexico be higher? How many experienced drivers vs new drivers do these companies listed have? If you could compare other years, then the question would be in each year did that company have more experienced drivers or newer drivers?


Maybe you can research this for us and show us your findings. Frankly, a new driver can be as good if not better than an experienced one. All that really matters is the training that has been recieved, what the requirements are for a passing grade, and how the training compares to that of the U.S. and even Canada, but we'll say the U.S. for know. Honestly, experience is overrated, sometimes it can actually have you commit more errors due to over-confidence.


There are many variables left out of the traffic enforcement crash section for the violations. There are no stats as to what type of road they were driving on, such as a back road, road through town, highway, bi way, and etc. There are no stats as to how heavy the traffic was or what was involved. I do mean what especially for Mexico. For crashes, they don't specify who's fault it was. How many stats did they include where it was not the drivers fault?


I'm having trouble seeing the relevance of the stats you ask for. Please explain to me how the type of road matters when it comes to the safety concerns of the Mexican truck drivers and their performance. Who's fault it was? Relevance please? The fact of the matter is that no matter whos fault it was, the driver was involved in an accident and it was registered. Whether it was the driver's fault or not, it is still registered as an accident and it will be reflected in the statistics.


Only the year 2006 is listed. How are these stats compared to other years on the Summary Statistics for U.S. DOT Active Motor Carriers? How many trucks were on the road each year? How many new drivers vs. experienced drivers were on the road each year? Did Mexico just happen to have more experienced drivers driving that year than US or Canada?


Here you go.

2005 - ai.fmcsa.dot.gov...
2004 - ai.fmcsa.dot.gov...
2003 - ai.fmcsa.dot.gov...
2002 - ai.fmcsa.dot.gov...

I'm pretty sure you can answer your own questions but you really need to learn how to use the navigation menus on the websites, it would really answer some of your "questions".


...How many vehicles in total were on the road each year?...


What does it matter really? The number of drivers will always vary from time to time, you know that and I know that. If in year 'x' there were 100 drivers on the road, 20 of those were truck drivers, the statistics derived are based on the 20 truck drivers, which are the only ones that matter. If in year 'y' there were 120 drivers, 20 of those were truck drivers, the statistics derived are still based on those 20 truck drivers. The ratio from truckers to regular motorists is irrevelant because the measure is of traffic violations and such involving the truckers only, whether it was their fault or not.


Or these stats telling me that there is a growing number of people starting to drive each year? If that is the case, then these stats are showing that from the year 2004 to 2005 that 4000 new drivers are on the
road who need to gain more experience in driving.


Hmmm...I don't see how you got that but whatever. What these stats show is that when it comes to traffic violations, safety regulations and basic operating regulations, Mexico has shown improvement as the years pass. Now, as more years pass, there will be more truck drivers on the road and defininitely more traffic violations, accidents and inspection violations that we can get hard numbers. Those numbers will increase as the amount of drivers increases but overall, the trend shows improvement not declines.


I believe the ones you posted are the strongest stats to prove your case. There is so much information left omitted that many questions are left unanswered that I haven't thought of. A person really into stats, and who knew how could really turn the tables on you. You really didn't prove anything.


Turn the tables on me? Prove anything?
A person does not need to be "really into stats" to understand what the stats show and how to interpret them. You only need basic knowledge in reading tables, basic compare and contrast understanding, and basic website navigation. Well, I agree, I did not prove anything, I just relayed the statistics. The information is straight forward.


All stats can be manipulated.


That is true, but you still did not show me were the stats were manipulated, as you claim.

[edit on 31-8-2007 by souls]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


You still do not get it for some reason. In your case you are a sub contractor. That however does not mean other long haul truckers are all the same many of them are not subcontractors they are hired an paid by the long haul companies and yes in some cases they are unionized.

Example Barry trucking is both a long haul and short haul steel carrier. Barry trucking has contracts with several stell companies like Ryerson. Bethlehem, etc and the trucks they drive are labeld Ryerson, Bethlehm whatever yet their pay cheacks comes from Barry Trucking and they are employed by the AFL I forget which local.

www.barrytrucking.com...


Consolidated Freight Ways which went into chapter 11 is yet another example of long haul truckers who were unionized they too drove for several different firms with different labels on their trucks yet the paycheack all came from consolidated.

There is also another issue here that most are missing the teamsters lobbied and got unionized ports on the west coast meaning all truckers entering the US ports had to be unionized however that is not the case for mexican drivers they can if this law passes drive to a Meixcan port and then into the US at lower wages



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:03 PM
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I am a long haul trucker for a major company. Every other company that I applied for was the SAME WAY MY COMPANY IS. You are hired by the driver company that is hired by the trucking company. Please tell me what part of that I'm not understanding here? I work for a company that has 9000 trucks, I'd say we were a major company. From the names you threw out there, they were much smaller companies.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
I am a long haul trucker for a major company. Every other company that I applied for was the SAME WAY MY COMPANY IS. You are hired by the driver company that is hired by the trucking company. Please tell me what part of that I'm not understanding here?


Very simple answer not all companies operate the way you think. I gave you Barry as and example qnd I hardly think 500 trucks should be considered a samll company but if it trips your trigger to insist they are well you are just showing your own ignorance is all I can say.

Also Consolidated was by no means a small company either they had thousands of drivers yet if thousands also trip your trigger as small see the above for my answer again



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:24 PM
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When you compare them to some of the other companies 500 IS small. We have 9000, another company I know of has 17,000+, and yet a third has about 12,000. But if you want to insist I'm ignorant and have no idea of how the industry that I work for works then you go right ahead and have a good time.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:45 PM
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Hey Zaphod, can you show me a link or something comparing U.S. and Mexican trucker labor requirements as of now. Please include the work log requirements as that is what I am mainly looking for. THX



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Flyer
 


As it is now they're trying to get MORE strict with US truck drivers HOS rules, which is going to hurt us even more.


While the American trucker has to sit in truck stops due to the HOS rules, the Mexicans will be driving. I hate to say this, but I honestly think they will drive illegally. They will be driving not only to get the job done, but to put more miles under their belt.

How much does the Mexican driver get paid compared to the American driver? I heard someone on a trucker forum say .10 a mile. I don't know if that was an off handed comment just to say they work for peanuts or not. Even so, new drivers in the US get .27 or .29 cent a mile from some of the companies who always hire new drivers, don't care about them, and have a high turn over rate. Most sensible drivers will only be employed to get the experience so they can go to a better company and get paid more. I have seen pay as high as .50 cent a mile.

If they are competing with Mexican drivers who experienced drivers may only make .15 cent or even .20 cent a mile, and can drive longer. This will hurt American drivers one way or the other. I just hope not too much.

Drivers in the UK have already stated their pay going down after the European Union going into effect, and they expect it to get worse before it stops.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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ntl.bts.gov...

Page 22. It's older but it's not easy to find current regulations for Mexico anywhere. I'll keep looking around and see if I can find them though.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by souls
Frankly, a new driver can be as good if not better than an experienced one. All that really matters is the training that has been recieved, what the requirements are for a passing grade, and how the training compares to that of the U.S. and even Canada, but we'll say the U.S. for know. Honestly, experience is overrated, sometimes it can actually have you commit more errors due to over-confidence.




Ok, now that I got a good laugh out of my system. If that statement were actually true, then all the newer drivers would have the higher pay and the pay would go down as they gain experience. All the best companies would require you to be a new driver instead of having 3-5 years experience. The insurance companies would be charging extremely high rates to insure new drivers. Not to say there are not very good newer drivers, but the majority will make mistakes, cost the company money, get lost easily, and get in places they are not suppose to go that beg for an accident to happen without calling the police to help them get out of there.

Fact is there are only a few companies that will accept new drivers. There are many CDL mills around that just teach enough to get the driver on the road. The trainers the drivers go out with for 2 to 6 weeks don't always do their job properly. Newer drivers are more bound to make mistakes than experienced drivers.

Just because a person knows how to drive a shift stick pick up truck, doesn't mean they will be able to drive a semi truck. If they would get into the seat of a semi without any training, they would be at a loss as what to do.

If you go to some truckers forums, you will see many questions from new drivers who are now out on their own, but having trouble shifting down a hill. How do you get down this mountain? What do you do if your breaks glaze over? I never driven in the snow, are there any precautions I need to take? I'm having trouble backing, any suggestions? There are many more questions that arise.

You believe that these drivers are better drivers than the ones helping out the newer drivers? It is the newer drivers who complain more about having things reported on their DAC. DAC is like the truckers credit score. Have enough preventable and/or non-preventables on the report, then the major companies will not touch you. It can even be hard to get one with a company that doesn't report to DAC.

You would be surprised what some companies count as accidents. The first company my husband drove for counted getting stuck in the mud as an accident. When I see 3000 thousand accidents, sometimes I wonder how many are actually accidents. If the stats come directly from police reports where a ticket was actually written up, then yes there an accident. If it comes from the company itself, then take that number and divide it by half to get a more realistic idea.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 02:51 PM
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The same thing happened to me. I got stuck trying to get turned around and they counted it as an accident since they had to tow my truck. Rookie drivers generally have a couple months of hell when they first go solo, because they're always having problems with directions, misjudging turns and catching curbs, can't get into docks, etc. After a month or two you start get better at judging things, but you still have quite a few problems. About 6 months of solo driving is the most dangerous point in your career. You're at the point where you are doing pretty well and you start to think that you know more than you really do. That's when you can REALLY get in trouble and hurt someone. You wouldn't believe some of the accidents that I've seen pictures of, and talked to drivers about where a student riding with a trainer wrecked the truck and damn near killed them both. One of the guys that was driving the van at one of our terminals for awhile showed me the pictures of his truck after his student fell asleep and rear ended another truck, and everyone that saw them, the first thing they asked was "How the hell did you survive?" because the truck was absolutely destroyed.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
When you compare them to some of the other companies 500 IS small. We have 9000, another company I know of has 17,000+, and yet a third has about 12,000.


Ah you still refuse to get it don't you? Those companies are more then likely contract companies they hire owner operators to haul each load if you go to the yard and there are no loads you have to wait until you get one and as long as you are siting you do not get paid which is not the case with the companies I gave as examples they hire you and you get paid for sitting if need be while you get paid by the mile, they get paid by the hour nor do they own the trucks, big differance.

[edit on 8/31/2007 by shots]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by Mystery_Lady
 




Back at you. Of the entire post you decided to call me out on my personal opinion and experience. Just to be clear, I never said that is the standard, I said sometimes even new drivers can do better than experienced ones. Trust me, show me a training manual/ course, I'll learn it and out perform some of the experienced, guaranteed, any subject. It is called to adapt and excel. I'm pretty sure in the trucker manual they teach you how to deal with snow, actually isn't that common sense? You still did not answer my question. Did you find the information you had asked me for?

What you don't understand is that experience only looks good on paper. My whole life, on a daily basis I can outperform experienced people in their subject any day and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. When it comes to trucks, all you have to do is learn the shifting times, understand how wide radius turns work, and keep in mind altitude and longitude of your truck at all times.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by shots
 


You don't get it do you? I WORK FOR ONE OF THOSE COMPANIES!!!!!! Is that CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?!?! THEY ARE NOT OWNER OP CONTRACTOR COMPANIES! They hire COMPANY DRIVERS. Those numbers of trucks are COMPANY TRUCKS and DO NOT COUNT Owner Operator trucks. I have worked for them for a year now, and I think I have SOME FREAKING CLUE AS TO WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

What part of "I AM A LONG HAUL TRUCK DRIVER" is not penetrating that brain of yours?!?! My god, I think I have SOME IDEA OF HOW THE TRUCKING INDUSTRY IN THE UNITED STATES WORKS FOR CHRISTS SAKE!

[edit on 8/31/2007 by Zaphod58]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 




Fine give me the name of the company so I can check out their website which will prove you are telling the truth for all I know you might work for Pumpkin/Snyder which are owner operated.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Well first of all Schneider is NOT owner operator only. The ONLY company that requires you to go to work as an owner operator and lease a truck from them (at least that I know of in the bigger companies) is CR England. I almost went to work for Schneider as a COMPANY driver, and I have known many of their COMPANY drivers. However, even though I fail to see why I should have to prove a DAMN thing to you. We have a mix of company and owner operators in our company. Our owner operator program allows you to purchase a truck from them and run loads for them while you're paying off the truck, and our company driver program allows you to drive their trucks and they pay for everything while you haul loads.

[edit on 1-9-2007 by sanctum]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


So are you saying that they're paying you by the hour and not by the mile and they also pay waiting time at docks or times you wait for loads at trminals? Those are the main points I was getting at other drivers get paid xx dollars per hour plus benifits.

[edit on 8/31/2007 by shots]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 05:19 PM
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The only time a truck driver gets paid by the hour is when they're getting paid to unload the truck. Normal driver pay for OTR and Regional drivers is by the mile, with added pay for extra stops, and if they have to unload the trailer themselves. You may get a ton of added pay, but your base pay rate is by the mile not the hour. But yes I get layover pay, lockdown pay, I get paid if I have to stay at a dock beyond a certain time, and a ton of other things, plus I get a wonderful benefits package.

[edit on 8/31/2007 by Zaphod58]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by souls
reply to post by Mystery_Lady
 


Trust me, show me a training manual/ course, I'll learn it and out perform some of the experienced, guaranteed, any subject. It is called to adapt and excel. I'm pretty sure in the trucker manual they teach you how to deal with snow, actually isn't that common sense?

What you don't understand is that experience only looks good on paper. My whole life, on a daily basis I can outperform experienced people in their subject any day and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. When it comes to trucks, all you have to do is learn the shifting times, understand how wide radius turns work, and keep in mind altitude and longitude of your truck at all times.


I'd love to see you try, especially only reading the training manual.
There is a lot more involved than what you mentioned. Granted you could learn the logs and other rules you need to learn from the books. The actual driving part, I love to see you try to back up, and make a tight turn. Not to mention how to apply the breaks properly.

A semi truck is a whole new experience, and totally different than driving even a cargo van. You have to compensate for the weight, at least 18 gears, the fact that the trailer is not connected to the truck, dealing with air breaks, and many other things that manuals don't mention.

With backing a semi, you basically need to throw everything you know about backing out the door. Reading about glazed breaks, and experiencing them going down a mountain at 65+ because you didn't have the truck in the correct gear to begin with are totally different. If you are lucky, you will get a school with a skid pad, and get a little practice. It is totally different when you are suddenly in snow storm that came out of nowhere or you find out the road has black ice instead of just being wet.

The manual doesn't mention anything about how to deal with people deciding to do crazy things around you. Such as pull in front of you, and slow way down suddenly. A very good way to cause an accident, total your car, and kill anyone in the back seat. Not giving the truck enough room to turn. Taking a turn wrong, getting stuck, and no way to move.

Actually, I don't think I'd want you on the road in a big truck. I think you would be too cocky to begin with. You would be basically driving a 80,000 pound bullet. I really hope you don't think a truck can stop faster just because it has bigger breaks than a car. There was a lady who thought just that. She saw the semi-truck coming down the hill, and proceeded to back out of her driveway anyhow. The truck cut her car in half. Thank heaven on one was in the back half. Semi trucks are actually slower to stop than any smaller vehicle on the road.

No I'm not gathering anything further on stats. I do know they can be manipulated. I seen a person given random stats. That person using the exact same stats argued both the pro and con of a topic, when the stats were only suppose to argue for one side.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:05 PM
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I'm going to have to go with Mystery_Lady on this one. I thought driving a truck would be easy, and the first time I did, just on the skid pad I was sweating and shaking I was so scared. And then on the road it was 100 times worse. The shifting pattern is hard, but there is nothing like backing an 80 foot vehicle into a space barely wider than it is, with another one sitting on either side. It SOUNDS like an easy job, and you may THINK that you could do it better than experienced drivers, but there's no way I'd want to be out on the road with you with that attitude. The only reason I didn't have 5 accidents in the first month was because I was so terrified to be driving by myself that I was extra cautious and waited longer than I had to a few times, and took things really slow going in and out of places.





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