SoldierMedic: Thanks for the links.

medic: As you can see, Canadians not only were in Bosnia and Somalia (in MAJOR combat operations) but they did their fair share of raping and murdering, too, just like your US soldiers. Just not on such a massive scale.

Canadians are known around the world as "peacekeepers", while the US is known as "war-mongerers".

Bottom line, though, I don't care if it was Canadian, American, or Dutch troops in that video, they are still murdering those targets.

One more time: This thread is on the Apache attack on Iraqi's video".............................

If the subject is not brought back on track and no one has any further comments to add to this thread dealing with the subject matter, I will LOCK the thread...period.

Please endeavor to bring your comments and postings inline with the subject of the thread. The thread has gone as far off topic as I will allow it to go...nuff!

Thank you.....this will self-destruct in 15 seconds....14.....13.....12....




regards
seekerof

You hear gunfire.. the first thing you reach for naturally is a hot exhaust pipe? right.
for me, I believe they were about to get out an RPG and try take out the helicopter, maybe an RPG they were stashing for future use.

This is what happens in war people die you dont try to give the enemy a fair chance you kill them before the even know what hit them nuff said

EDIT: Sorry Seekerof, didn't see your psot. Edit at your discretion.

Originally posted by Jakomo

This was NOT a battlefield situation.

Notice how the camera stays so still? Because the Apache is just hovering, watching, before it opens up with 30mm cannons on three "unknown" targets.

The point is that they DIDN'T know if they were enemies. Listen to the chatter from the pilot and gunner. They're not excited, they're not afraid, it's all pretty low-key. All they know is they're blowing away Iraqis.

Sodliers are supposed to stay cool under combat. They don't say "Ho-lee sheeeeeeeeet! We's gonna blow away some of dem der ee-Raqis damn good. Yee-Haw!"

And it's pure murder. Watch and listen to the video, it's chilling how emotionless these murderous US soldiers are.

Have I ever been in combat? Yes.

That video isn't combat. It's a turkeyshoot. Did the Apache take any incoming fire at all? Was this "tube" even pointed at them? What kind of a military operation consists of three guys in a wide open field with POSSIBLY one rpg launcher?

The disarrayed and cellular military the Iraqi Remnant ha become?
And sicne when ha it only been justified in a war to only fire when fired upon? That's a good way to get real dead real quick.

was the USA, and the helicopter opened fire on three Americans in a field because they seemed to possibly have an rpg, believe that Army heads would roll.

Because there isn't a war going on in the US right now. If there were a civil war, and RPG attacks were the norm, then it wouldn't be surprising at all.

uess that just shows the institutional racism that goes on.

These, after all, were only Iraqis, right? They're not as important as US soldiers, who are God's Chosen Killers. Our Good Little Boys, who are only following orders.

They're soldiers. So are the Iraqis. Soldiers kill eachother in war. Neither one is right or wrong, just doing their job. That's why the loser in a war isn't charged with murder. The accepted rule is that if you are going into war, you are basically giving the OK that the other guy has the right to shoot at you. Sure, you don't want him to, but you can't really blame him. You'd do the same.



[Edited on 3-2-2004 by Esoterica]

Okay its hard to imagine 3 possibly 4 lives getting snuffed out in an instant hail of 30mm rounds from almost a mile away.

FACT: the US has declared certain weapons to be considered a weapon of an enemy combatant. Ie an iraqi carrying an AK or a pistol is not deemed an "enemy" weapon but an Iraqi carrying a grenande, any type of RPG or any other explosive device whether improvised or constructed (mine) is to be considered a threat and to be "Taken out" as an enemy combatant, where ever and when ever the situation presents itself.

This has been told to the Iraqi's over and over and over again.

The video clearly shows, either A weapons dealers exchanging a "banned" weapon in the middle of a field or B insurgents trying to position a RPG on a tractor to attack low flying US helicopters.

We have lost several helicopters from the exact same setup, a conceled launch point in an open field.

There is a tractor in the field, but it is being used to conceal the launch point.

While the iraqi that runs and hides under the truck is trying to save his life the wages of war took his life. The pilots radio for advisal from ops and were given the go ahead to take them out. Even as the wounded combatant crawled out from under the truck and was again shot at a second time, their orders were to dispatch the "threat". Maybe more iraqi insurgents will see the video and realize that the US is capable of ending their lives at any moment. Maybe they will throw down their arms and try and help build their country instead of killing both iraqi and Coalition service people in cowardly and pointless manner as they are doing.

Just think about the almost 500 US soliders that will not be returning to their families. Most of them were killed by insurgents that have no regard for life, they spray convoys in the middle of the street surrounded by civilians and many, many innocent iraqis are killed by their actions, THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

They put bombs on the roadside and wait for cars to go by and they blow them up. Sometimes they blow up iraqi cars with no Coalition troops even in sight. Killing dozens of Iraqi's just trying to go about their lives.

Where is the justice for those innocent people ?

Please do not say that our forces are commiting murder, when they have given the insurgents so many warnings and opporotunity to stop the violence even against their own people.

Just finished reading this thread and it appears to me that all is being based on the mpg copy.There is an avi that shows the whole situation that I think would clearly change some minds.Have any of you seen the full version? If not I don't have a link but do have a copy if there is anywhere here I can deposit a copy.I am new here so am not up to speed with everything yet.

I've seen the AVI and I'm very much in favour of what they did, I personally believe it was necessary.
The opening shots by the helicopter was slightly worrying, but the actions taken by the iraqis afterwards justifies it, as he unwraps and, to me, appears to be taking out an RPG that they had just dumped to try to take down the helicopter
Can you honestly say that you wouldnt do anything to safe-guard your own life?
I know that if I was in that situation I would have acted similar, if not exactly, as the pilots did.
War is hell, but if you choose to support an oppressive regieme when you have been given the option to just be a normal civilian, there are inherent risks with that.

My 2 pennies :X

I cannot believe how stupid and totally ridiculous some people can be. There are weapons on hand here which will be used by these three at some point.
Any person that believes these were innocent farmers or farm workers get your eyes tested. If you are so dumb that you still need me to explain the facts to you or talk you through each stage i will do this. There are at least 2 RPG's and possibly a third throughout the film.I am going to post a more in depth reply shortly.
For the record these were not and i repeat were not innocent farmhands or even bystanders they were insergents. It is very clear in one scene what the insergent is attemting to remove as his intention before being killed is to fire upon the gunship which has just killed one of his fellow insurgents.
Had that insurgent fired upon the gunship we could have been the deaths of the US crew and even if they did not die they would be captured tortured and most probably butally murdered on camera for the world to see.
Th crew of this ship were not murderer's how dare some people even suggest that. They were doing their jobs as for the last man rolling around on the floor he could still be dangerous i would say that he was lucky to have been put out of his misery so early! Had this been the other way around he would have died at the hands of butchers. May i add this Any person anywhere in the world the minute you pick up a weapon you become a aprt of the problem and not the solution. You choose to live by the bullet than you will surely die by it also. The insurgents we still fight today will never win the Taliban will never het a foothold The USA will be victorious we will crush the terrorist in this world. Get a life people

I dont know if these are insurgents or not but I think using the Apache is way overkill..
They didnt have a squad of marines or soldiers near by that could take a look at them?
They could follow them for quite a while until the troops did arrive to investigate..
I realize there isnt an abundance of game in Iraq but for the sake of argument, what if an Apache comes across a man hunting OR just teaching his son to shoot an AK..
The last I heard, at least in some areas, it is legal for people to own one AK47 per household..
I assume that they mean they can keep it INSIDE the household for self defense purposes but still what if it someone that doesnt know the exact law just wanders out into a grove with his rifle to shoot an animal or something..




[edit on 9/14/2007 by Kr0n0s]

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"Please explain what these people did to deserve death?"

how the hell am i supposed to know? and more importantly, how the hell are you supposed to know?

It is murder, wheather they fight back or not.

At the beginning the helicopter bucks a few shots, then stops, an you can see the guy in the crosshairs start to hurry across the road faster after what sounds like a very quick burst of a couple shots.

Then they make it across the road, and the one guy is crossing back over the road to the other side where he came from, he knows theres a helicopter because of the short burst moments before, but cant see because of range/darkness. So watch him when he tries to cross..

He slowly walks as if hes walking through a minefield, lol! Like being sneaky is going to help you in a wide - open street. He was walking like "oh # theres an Apache watching us, im gonna walk extra slow and nonchalantly like some joe schmoe walking across the street.

Then they lit him up hardcore!

That dude bursted like a damn Lemmings from Lemmings PC game.
Or better yet, a Worm from the Worms game, lol. The left-over on the street looks like it anyways.

The left over guts in the street also kind of look like a squashed lightning bug, you know how their glowing stuff gets all over stuff when they are broken? well thats what it looks like. Crazyness.. dudes had no chance.

Edit: Kill or be Killed in War. If I was flying that Apache, I would've done the same thing. You don't know if those guys are about to shoot a rocket at you. And what if it hits your helicopter?

IF you crash land without breaking your neck/back/legs, you have to try to evade this entire group of Insurgents who know where you are since they watched you crash? And when they find you, theyre going to put you on video while they saw off your head at the neck?

Screw that, they're going down kiddo.

[edit on 9/14/2007 by runetang]

War is a part of human nature. Sometimes wars are started for the right reasons and sometimes not. At this point it doesn't matter if the War in Iraq is right or wrong. It doesn't matter what you think, because we are there.
By we...I mean the men and women of this country who are doing there jobs. (which in case you were wondering, the Armed forces of this country are not a police force to keep crowd control) They are killers, trained to do a job that you little girls who are wining about how unfair this is could never be able to do. If you could you wouldn't have diarreha at the mouth about how unfair or unjust any of this is.
Go to Iraq and ask the common man or woman how they feel about it. If I were there Iwould have wanted someone to do something, because folks...the only time Genocide is ever commited is against unarmed civilians and plenty of that has happened there.
Most of the things I have read here, over there would get your head chopped off and the heads of your whole family as well. So, be thankful that you live in a country where you can say what you like, however, don't get used to it seeing as you morons are the reason we will have a socialistic president come January. It might not be to long before you have an idea of what the Iraqi people went through for the last four decades! LOSERS!

Originally posted by ArchAngel
absolute ignorance. dont even PRETEND you know whats happening there.

Please explain what these people did to deserve death?

It looks like people on a farm. There are no weapons in the video.

It's a tragic scene.

But if they were farmers, what they would be doing out in the middle of the night, in pitch darkness?