these men probably deserved to die as they were a threat to the US troops, Iraqi civilians and world peace in general.

I like start off by saying that all of you who said "this is murder", obviously aren't over here. I am. Secondly hellicopters flying at night don't use themals, they use night vision. Which doesn't display heat signature. It amplifys light. So a "white hot tractor exhaust" isn't gonna show up. And if it's white hot what are they doing carrying it around in the middle of the night. Wouldn't burn them? Why at night? What you all don't know is that the Apache had followed the truck for some time and in fact they stopped to dump their weapons. Also to the guy who supposedly handle a RPG 7: There are more varieties of rpgs than that and that looks alot like a RPG 12 to me. But what the hell do i know, i'm only over here. You people need to remember that this is war and people are gonna die. Like it or not.
And until you've been in a combat situation i really don't think you should write like you know about it.

Yeah i saw that video, pretty awsome! Body parts flying everywhere! Pretty sweet.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
voice_of_doom, i know what ure tryina get at.... dont even go there.

for thousands of years, people have followed orders. no orders = chaos

Chaos IS the natural "order" of things. You have to realize that God is a crazy woman. Science has also demonstrated that the universe is moving to a more "chaotic" environment. Its called Negentropy and affects everything from evolution, planet creation, biology and perception to apache helicopters and PS2 games.

Im just staying ahead of the curve by embracing it!


You are all absolutely free

The short version does not do justice. Before posting I decided to see the full version. Glad I did. It looked unjustified in the short version. I saw three guys (two smoking a ciggy on break and one ON A TRACTOR).

However, the full version clearly shows one guy dropping the RPG in the field. Then smoking more. As the tractor got to where the RPG was, the man driving the tractor got out and started walking off as guy # 2 was getting ready for a shot with the RPG and guy #1 got blown away, then guy 2 frantically tries to the the shot ready and gets blown away and then guy 3 got dusted because they had no clue what he had in the truck.

PERIOD.

I sure am glad I saw the full version or I woulda thought plain old murder though too. But the full version shows that this is just the way war goes.

"But what the hell do i know, i'm only over here. You people need to remember that this is war and people are gonna die. Like it or not.
And until you've been in a combat situation i really don't think you should write like you know about it."

well said. ive never been in a combat situation and it annoys me when computer nerds speak like they know everything about war when they havnt even faught in one.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"But what the hell do i know, i'm only over here. You people need to remember that this is war and people are gonna die. Like it or not.
And until you've been in a combat situation i really don't think you should write like you know about it."

well said. ive never been in a combat situation and it annoys me when computer nerds speak like they know everything about war when they havnt even faught in one.

If you've never been in combat, are you willing to listen to someone who has?

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"But what the hell do i know, i'm only over here. You people need to remember that this is war and people are gonna die. Like it or not.
And until you've been in a combat situation i really don't think you should write like you know about it."

well said. ive never been in a combat situation and it annoys me when computer nerds speak like they know everything about war when they havnt even faught in one.

YOU'RE RIGHT! I've never FAUGHT in a war, but I've FAUGHT with my sister and FAUGHT with my wife and FAUGHT with my boss. Once I FAUGHT for a philosophical cause. It was a good FAUGHT...you should have seen it.
I think that your point is valid (Geniusage?). How can anyone who's never FAUGHT in war make commentary on it. How about this trade off...If you can't SPELL you should'nt give commentary PERIOD!
Let that THAUGHT bang around inside your head...
And you claim to be over in Iraq representing the US?!
If this represents the level of brainiacs in our military then I am TRULY frightened. Is the Army the only place that accepts people who can't read or write?? Jesus Christ...
Give that man a gun and tell him to go shoot something quick, before he starts thinking for himself. Look...there's one now, a darky too! Fire, fire, fire....he looks like he's carrying a BOOK! He might be on his way to a spelling bee. Better dust his ass before he conjugates a verb.


There is no friend anywhere - Lao Tse

Hey Voice of doom, its me thats over here not Geniusage, and if the best you do is bust on someone for spelling then you need to move on. This discussion wasn't about spelling or how cool you think you can be, it was about world events. Things that matter.

"how is it murder when its war? What do you think happens during a war? Being behind a computer, and being on the battlefield are 2 different worlds. They are in a war, they get commands from their superiors. "

Every WAR is murder.

If germany had one the WORLD WAR 2, the americans and the allies would of been charge in NAZI court for mass murder.

All propaganda on both sides.

Voice of Doom
I have been viewing this site for quite a while now and have been putting off joining in on the discussion until someone said something stupid enough to make it worth while. First of all, before you begin attacking someone for a simple spelling mistake you should be sure that all of your previous posts are beyond reproach. Here are a couple of definitions for you:

Main Entry: cha·os
Pronunciation: 'kA-"äs
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek -- more at GUM
1 obsolete : CHASM, ABYSS
2 a often capitalized : a state of things in which chance is supreme; especially : the confused unorganized state of primordial matter before the creation of distinct forms -- compare COSMOS b : the inherent unpredictability in the behavior of a natural system (as the atmosphere, boiling water, or the beating heart)
3 a : a state of utter confusion b : a confused mass or mixture chaos of television antennas>

Main Entry: en·tro·py
Pronunciation: 'en-tr&-pE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -pies
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary 2en- + Greek tropE change, literally, turn, from trepein to turn
1 : a measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder and that is a property of the system's state and is related to it in such a manner that a reversible change in heat in the system produces a change in the measure which varies directly with the heat change and inversely with the absolute temperature at which the change takes place; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system
2 a : the degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity b : a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder
3 : CHAOS, DISORGANIZATION, RANDOMNESS

Pay close attention to the synonyms listed for entropy. Now negentropy deals with systems moving towards a more complex structure not a more chaotic one. Perhaps you know more about physics than I do and can clear up the confusion I have about the differences between chaos, entropy, and negentropy but a simple search on the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary yielded these results. I'm sure you can read through my post and find a spelling or grammatical error but maybe next time, before you attack a soldier in MY Army, you will have better ammunition than one misspelled word. Did you ever stop to think that he is posting from an army internet cafe in the desert of Iraq and is competing for time online with hundreds of other soldiers and didn't have time to do a thorough spell check? With that said, I will return to observing in silence. Next time think before you post.

This was NOT a battlefield situation.

Notice how the camera stays so still? Because the Apache is just hovering, watching, before it opens up with 30mm cannons on three "unknown" targets.

The point is that they DIDN'T know if they were enemies. Listen to the chatter from the pilot and gunner. They're not excited, they're not afraid, it's all pretty low-key. All they know is they're blowing away Iraqis.

And it's pure murder. Watch and listen to the video, it's chilling how emotionless these murderous US soldiers are.

Have I ever been in combat? Yes.

That video isn't combat. It's a turkeyshoot. Did the Apache take any incoming fire at all? Was this "tube" even pointed at them? What kind of a military operation consists of three guys in a wide open field with POSSIBLY one rpg launcher?

If this was the USA, and the helicopter opened fire on three Americans in a field because they seemed to possibly have an rpg, believe that Army heads would roll.

But I guess that just shows the institutional racism that goes on.

These, after all, were only Iraqis, right? They're not as important as US soldiers, who are God's Chosen Killers. Our Good Little Boys, who are only following orders.

Pathetic.

And before someone slams me for not showing proper respect for US soldiers in Iraq, I'm not American so I honestly don't care too much, nor do I have to. You join the Army, you hope you can help your country and you hope you won't get killed. Dem's the rules. I feel more sympathy for your average Iraqi citizen than I do for your average US soldier, because this was forced on them, they didn't volunteer to be occupied and shot and killed.



jako

let the flaming begin.

I have to stick with my first post. Military action. Plain, simple, truth. The full length vid shows it all.

You're right! I didn't find any spelling mistakes in your post! Apparently your "spell-checker" is working just fine! Also, let me compliment you on your "copy and paste" abilities.
First off, the evolution of complex systems always incorporates chaos (i.e. chance and random factors). That’s how they become MORE complex!
Second, it’s not YOUR army, jarhead. It belongs and ANSWERS to the people of the United States. And if a grunt doesn't have enough time to formulate his/her thoughts into a coherent form of communication then they're fair game for criticism. (Think before you post, indeed!)
Thirdly, statements they previously made such as, "those men deserved to die!" are so preposterous to a thinking person that they deserve whatever criticisms they get! In my opinion, anyone who believes that they are in a superior moral position to determine who lives and who dies is a psychopath! Nobody can see all ends to this COMPLEX and CHAOTIC world we all share.
Perhaps your own efforts would be better spent giving basic education to YOUR fellow soldier. Teach them that morals are transient and based on perspective. Teach them that patriotism is a double edged sword. Teach them that war solves nothing. Teach them that the Germans" were only following orders too.

Good luck out there and try not to get yourself killed.

There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

Originally posted by medic
I like start off by saying that all of you who said "this is murder", obviously aren't over here. I am. Secondly hellicopters flying at night don't use themals, they use night vision. Which doesn't display heat signature. It amplifys light. So a "white hot tractor exhaust" isn't gonna show up. And if it's white hot what are they doing carrying it around in the middle of the night. Wouldn't burn them? Why at night? What you all don't know is that the Apache had followed the truck for some time and in fact they stopped to dump their weapons. Also to the guy who supposedly handle a RPG 7: There are more varieties of rpgs than that and that looks a lot like a RPG 12 to me. But what the hell do i know, i'm only over here. You people need to remember that this is war and people are gonna die. Like it or not.
And until you've been in a combat situation i really don't think you should write like you know about it.

Our war isn't with Iraq. It never was. If someone bombed and invaded your country, you'd be killing them too. They had nothing to do with 9/11. The entire Iraq connection was based on absolutely nothing, as was the WMD "program". Enjoy your senseless preemptive war.

The guys in the movie couldn't possibly be trying to shoot the apache.

It was dark.

The apache was probably about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile away.

I agree that in the longer version of the video it appears as though the two guys are in cahoots to setup a rocket launcher or some other weapon. However what bothers me is that the 3rd person, who drives up on the tractor next to the weapon, steps down and starts walking away as if his attitude is "I want no part of this business", and ironically he is the first to be nailed. I understand that in the heat of battle these judgements have to be made very quickly by american soldiers. I'm just glad I don't have to make them. You gotta wonder if the guy who pulled the trigger was later thinking "jeez, I shouldn't have shot the tractor driver".

This retarded. Murder? You people at home are so busy with your opinions on a war that is being fed to you over the media, that you don't even stop to think it over. I'm guessing the last couple posters here haven't even seen it. Buncha armchair generals. Really, until you know whats going on here how about not even posting. I mean what do you hear from the media on any given day? "one attack today, 2 us soldies killed" What the media isn't telling you is between the four camps thatmake up my unit(2acr) we average 22 attacks in one 24 hour period. I know. I'm a friggin combat medic. they don't tell you crap about wounded or attacks in general unless it's convient for them. And for the second time, the AH-64D had followed the truck for almost half an hour before the truck stopped and the footage you saw takes over there. Why the hell do we keep having to defend our selves from you people at home when were getting attacked by iraqis daily. Jeeze. And Jakomo, when exactly were you in combat? NOT knocking on canadians but i'd sure like to know which recent conflict they played a combat roll in. And satry, nobodies too sure what the hell your supposed to be saying. In closing, i'd like to say thanks to the people who do support us over here cause this "ain't" no play ground, and i feel sorry for rest of you.

Originally posted by medic
This retarded. Murder? You people at home are so busy with your opinions on a war that is being fed to you over the media, that you don't even stop to think it over. I'm guessing the last couple posters here haven't even seen it. Buncha armchair generals. Really, until you know whats going on here how about not even posting. I mean what do you hear from the media on any given day? "one attack today, 2 us soldies killed" What the media isn't telling you is between the four camps thatmake up my unit(2acr) we average 22 attacks in one 24 hour period. I know. I'm a friggin combat medic. they don't tell you crap about wounded or attacks in general unless it's convient for them. And for the second time, the AH-64D had followed the truck for almost half an hour before the truck stopped and the footage you saw takes over there. Why the hell do we keep having to defend our selves from you people at home when were getting attacked by iraqis daily. Jeeze. And Jakomo, when exactly were you in combat? NOT knocking on canadians but i'd sure like to know which recent conflict they played a combat roll in. And satry, nobodies too sure what the hell your supposed to be saying. In closing, i'd like to say thanks to the people who do support us over here cause this "ain't" no play ground, and i feel sorry for rest of you.

I 100% support you and support our troops.

What do people think war is .......it is kill or be killed. There is no debating and agreement. Our soilders are being attacked every day and you pussiess call this video murder!

God bless our troops and god bless America!!!!!

I doubt I could find a link to this article,
Just read it yesterday in the Journal paper, The word on the street in iraq concerning this war? Raid on thier Oil!

People dont feel any less secure than they did with saddam around.

Hell after the Gulf war, he still provided them with electricity 2 days after. Thiers children running around in sewage in iraq. No electricity, no essentials.

Deep